Reccommendations for small woofer

black magic

So I've been doing a ton of reading about the sr6500's and I think I've made a firm decision to pick me up a pair and replace those momo's... as much as I like them. However, I also think a small woofer in the front of the car would be nice so here is the plan...

right now in the front I have mmc6500 in kick panels and mmc5250 in the doors. I love everything the way it is, but I would like to upgrade because I'm an audiophile. So they're both coming out. It was a tough choice between the focal k2p and sr6500 but I think I'm gonna go for the polks. They've just done too well of a job with that driver. Anyways, I'd also like to add either the focal 13ks or 13ws woofers in a small sealed enclosure next to the SR's. these 5" subs need as little as .18 cu ft. enclosures so space shouldn't be a problem, but the fabrication will take a long time. too bad polk doesn't make small woofers.

I've read a bit about both these focal subs. I'm leaning a bit towards the 13ws at this point because they have a lower frequency response which is what i'm looking for. Both woofers have good specs and I've read great reviews for both. Unfortunately I haven't been able to personally hear either one though

Any suggestions? sorry for the long post.

oh, and as for power, the SR's will be bi-amped with the c400.4 and each sub will be getting about 75 watts.

MacLeod

Im not a huge fan of subs up front. I know that ideally that is the best spot for them but you can have a sub in the rear and have it image up front with tuning and a little elbow grease.

The thing about the up front subs is that unless youre going to use at least an 8, youre not going to get that good a low end extension. I have heard a couple cars with 8" subs in each door and while they played the 60-80 Hz stuff great, they rolled off quite sharply below that.

The best systems Ive ever heard have always had the subs in the rear. So long as your front stage has sufficient midbass and you tune it right, you wont have an issue with the bass pulling to the rear.

Something to think about anyway.

1996blackmax

Do you have limited space in the back of your car? What do you have back there now?

There are some guys that are running woofers in the doors that have gotten pretty good results, below what Mac has stated, but they were running at least 8" woofers.

exalted512

Even with the 8s in my doors, theyre getting cut off at 50Hz. Having your sub in the back is not a bad idea, by any means.
-Cody

black magic

1996blackmax wrote: »

Do you have limited space in the back of your car? What do you have back there now?

I have 2 SR DVCs in the trunk right now. space isn't limited, but I kept enough room for some groceries.

Thanks for the info, guys. I've been playing around for my amp settings for a long time to get the subs the way they are now. I think it sounds great, but when I turn down the subs, I sometimes feel the momo components don't give off as much mid bass as I'd like. Its not that they don't have any mid bass at all but I was hoping some woofers in the front would help. Perhaps when I bi-amp the momos that will make a difference? I haven't had a chance to install my other c400 so i have never bi-amped the momos yet. but i guess i should work on that first. I was thinking of putting dynamat on the entire doors as well because right now there is just a bit around the speakers. Hopefully that makes a difference as well. Anyways, I'll play around with my amp settings a little more and let you guys know how it turns out. Thanks again.

So for now I'm just going to assume that if everything is tuned correctly, adding these small woofers in the front would pretty much be a waste.

1996blackmax

I think I know what your problem may be....the lack of deadening on the doors. I have a good amount of it on my doors. I did one door at a time so I was able to do side to side comparison. The difference was alot more than I would have thought. Basically the side without the deadening just sounded hollow compared to the other side. This was with the stock system too. The speaker with the deadening had a solid punch to it along with a fuller sound. Once I threw in my components, it was a beautiful thing.

I completely covered both the outer and inner skins of the both doors. I believe this is the only way to go about doing it. I also put a layer of foam material in between the deadener and the door panel. I used Second Skin Damplifier, and Rattlepad. I highly recommend these products as they work great, and can be had for reasonable prices. All of my speakers are also mounted on 3/4" MDF rings to the doors. Get rid of the cheap plastic OEM mounts if you are still using them.

exalted512

Everything he said ^^

Most cars have quite a few access holes in the door, which is horrible for midbass. All those need to be sealed up and try to make the front of the inner door skin and the back of the inner door skin completely separate. This will help more than you could imagine.

My rear doors are fully sound deadened and when I didnt have my front stage in yet, i had my rear 4x6s going. People thought I had 6x9s back there...
-Cody

black magic

Many thanks for the tips! Will definitely work on implementing them. I think a few of you may have mentioned the sound deadening before also. Maybe I should have listened the first time!

The components are in kicks. should I be applying the sound deadener to the inside of the kicks as well?

exalted512

Are they qlogics?
-Cody

black magic

yes they are :cool:

KevinLWhitaker

I use to think that sound deadening was beneficial to good sound, now after doing a number of different vehicles, I firmly believe it is essential to good sound. The difference is so dramatic in mid bass sound that I tell people if they don't plan to deaden the doors than don't plan to invest in better speakers. I apply material to every surface of the door, inner and outer metal, and plastic and do my best to seal up all the holes.

exalted512

then id recommend dynaglass, which can be picked up at autozone.
-Cody

black magic

Thanks.

killerb

sealing the doors makes a huge difference. i used sound deadening on all surfaces and rebuilt my door panels from cardboard to plywood. my midbass is awsome and the subs blend great!

black magic

Thanks for the input

I have a few questions about crossovers/equalizers...

I'm thinking that sometime in the future I'd like to get an active 3-way crossover system b/c its more efficient (I'll need to find another pair of mids as well). Now, please bear with me, because I think I've completely confused myself.

What is the difference between getting an active crossover/eq as opposed to just separately amplifying each componens like the woofer and tweeter (without the passive x-overs) and adjusting the frequency settings on the amp? because aren't you filtering out frequencies either way? The only thing I can think of is that you couldn't have both a high and low filter to create a bandpass for a midbass driver on a 3-way system (unless an amp can have a bandpass).

But this raises another question, does that mean that if I were to bi-amp the sr components using the passive x-overs, the frequency settings I use on the amp won't matter too much since the passive x-over will filter out the frequencies that can't be played by the speakers?

I guess the thing I don't really understand is how a 3-way component system works when in passive.... as far as wiring is concerned anyways.

Installer4life

Black Magic you are getting close. You can use the passive crossovers that come with the SR components and still bi-amp them. This way you get all the other benefits of the crossover which include tweeter protection. The biamp mode takes you to the next level of tuning. For example if each speaker has its on dedicated amplifier channel it can have its own dedicated eq channel. Also each speaker's output level is infinitely adjustable. On the other hand if you use the passive crossovers in the active setup you will be somewhat limited to using the Polk selected crossover points. Some of todays sound processors provide an infinite number of crossover points and equilizer options. If I was going to do active I would not use the supplied crossovers. Just make sure your use a crossover frequency that does not go lower than Polks suggested minimum frequency. Going active gives you the ability to dial in the exact frequency, the crossover slope, equilization and possibly time correction that you need on each speaker. It is usually more expensive to go active and I would think harder to tune but the results can be amazing. Whatever you choose with the SR components you will be happy. I have the 5250's in the kicks and the SR 6" midbass driver in the door. I hope to have them up and playing next week and I will let you know how they sound. I used the passive crossover networks that came with the 5250's.

black magic

Thanks for the info. Your setup sounds a lot like what I'm aiming for.

Does it matter whether I get the sr6500 or 5250?

I know the 6500s have a lower crossover point and can play lower than the 5250, but does that mean they won't handle the midrange as well? If thats the case, maybe I should get them both

Thanks for your patience.

bizza

black magic wrote: »

Thanks for the info. Your setup sounds a lot like what I'm aiming for.

Does it matter whether I get the sr6500 or 5250?

I know the 6500s have a lower crossover point and can play lower than the 5250, but does that mean they won't handle the midrange as well? If thats the case, maybe I should get them both

Thanks for your patience.

that is not the case, the sr6500 sound just fine in the midrange department. You'll be able to cross them lower than the 5200, so they'll blend nicely with your sub...

black magic

Thanks. I've made my purchase

MacLeod

I actually prefer the 5250's to the 6500's.

The 6500's can get down lower but my 5250's are playing down to 45 Hz with no problem at all and the midrange of the 5250 is better. On top of that, theyll play up to 5 KHz before rolling off.

bizza

MacLeod wrote: »

I actually prefer the 5250's to the 6500's.

The 6500's can get down lower but my 5250's are playing down to 45 Hz with no problem at all and the midrange of the 5250 is better. On top of that, theyll play up to 5 KHz before rolling off.

Really?
i wouldve thought that the 6500 would have the same midrange capabilities, with a tad extended midbass response...
uhhhh i guess i made another crappy purchase with those sr6500

MacLeod

No, no, no! Not at all. Dont misunderstand, the 6500's have excellent midrange. I can assure you that youll be completely happy with them.

Im just saying that for my musical tastes, 5250's sound better to my ears.

Each size speaker will have things it does better than other sizes and some worse. 5.25's are usually better at reproducing midrange but lack the midbass punch of a 6.5. 6.5's usually have pretty solid midbass and low frequency extension but dont excell at the upper mid stuff.

Its like the difference between a BMW and Benz. Both are great cars, both perform differently but you cant really go wrong with either. Its which is more suited to your driving style. Same here - it depends on what you like to hear.