The LP experience begins!

madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
edited October 2002 in 2 Channel Audio
Today my first stack of LP's arived. I opened the boxes and my first thought was that I have something substantial in my hands. As I sat there and opened them up I started experiencing all the things I had long forgot about. Opening up the celaphane, pulling out the LP to see what the label looked like, pulling out everything from little tags to big wall posters to 30 page full color picture brochures, checking to see how thick the LP is. I was thinking how much nicer this was as compared to finding a way to start ripping off the celaphane off a cd, removing the first "sealed" sticker across the side, then the other side then the top. The thrill of actually getting to the media quickly without several cuss words and throwing the freakin thing across the room!!! So much for my rant on opening a CD. In any case a small paper cut returned me to reality but at least I wasn't frustrated. Now, if I could just get some sound out of them!
madmax
Vinyl, the final frontier...

Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
Post edited by madmax on
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Comments

  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited October 2002
    In the package was a couple of catalogs. The DCC stuff looked really cool! I take it this guy does one project at a time remixing older masters and recutting new LP's to produce? That is really cool!
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • Paul ConnorPaul Connor Posts: 231
    edited October 2002
    Madmax

    You have just laid out what is one best aspects to vinyl. It is the overall experience. While I try not to look backward too much with rose colored glasses, imagine going into a car dealership today and buying a brand new 1972 Chevelle SS454. I guess I would call it the cool factor. Many things today just don't have it.

    Paul
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited October 2002
    Man,
    What a trip that would be. Can you imagine the salesman handing you the key to the beast! Should I get the 454 upgrade over the 305? Just kidding.
    Your absolutly right about the analogy between the two. I feel like a little kid waiting for the equipment to arive. BTW, my first stop would be at a record store.

    One other thought. When I used to get albums they cost about $5.99 + $5 shipping (each) from a record club. 10 albums was like $110. That has not changed much!!! The ones I ordered were between $10 to $20 each and total shipping of $5.99. The other thing I noticed is that some were double sets which don't seem to have a price difference. A few classics seem expensive though.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • wangotango68wangotango68 Guest Posts: 1,056
    edited October 2002
    why go with the under powered smog controled 72 454 and go with the 70 chevelle ss 454, best car chevy ever made! do your homework son.


    im just telling ya:cool:
  • rlwrlw Posts: 231
    edited October 2002
  • Paul ConnorPaul Connor Posts: 231
    edited October 2002
    Madmax,

    If you have a local used record store, you can save a ton of dough on shipping. We have a great store here called Triple Play Records that sells cd's and records. They have a great selection and the owner stands behind every record sold. Also found a good used store in Denver, vinyl in excellent condition and cheap..... but I don't know if I will tell anyone where it is. Ok, ok I'll tell you and rlw.

    Paul
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited October 2002
    I'll take the '69 anyday. I'll look in this area for used record shops. Never looked so who knows!
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • rlwrlw Posts: 231
    edited October 2002
    Send me a ClubPolk e-mail when you have a chance...
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited October 2002
    Mine is [email protected]
    I don't see how to find yours. Just send me an email.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited October 2002
    So when I get this stuff I think the weak link will be the phono preamp in my Soundcraftsmen pro-control 4 preamp. Next on the list would be the rest of the preamp. If I build one of those seduction phono preamp stages which I had a link for on another post I wonder if I could add a potentiometer on the output of it to control the volume and remove the soundcraftsmen all together? Oh well, I'm not there yet anyway.

    What are "Test Pressings"? I see them at Acoustic Sounds Inc.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • rlwrlw Posts: 231
    edited October 2002
    Originally posted by madmax001
    So when I get this stuff I think the weak link will be the phono preamp in my Soundcraftsmen pro-control 4 preamp. Next on the list would be the rest of the preamp. If I build one of those seduction phono preamp stages which I had a link for on another post I wonder if I could add a potentiometer on the output of it to control the volume and remove the soundcraftsmen all together? Oh well, I'm not there yet anyway.

    What are "Test Pressings"? I see them at Acoustic Sounds Inc.
    madmax

    Test pressings = the first few pressings from the masters. May/may not sound better than the normal pressing. In general, however, the earlier the pressing, the better the sound - that's why the "Promo" copies from radio stations are in demand. The idea is that the master gets worn over time - and subsequent pressings are never as good as that first pressing.

    Yes, the phono stage in your SC pre will be a major weak link. I wouldn't attempt to pot down the signal from the Seduction - instead, if you're really budgeted, consider using a high-quality (Vishay) resistor in-line. There's a guy over at Audio Asylum (Tafka Steve) who does this for purist reasons - sort of the ultimate passive preamp.

    The only problem is if you will ever want more gain, which you might.

    From what you've posted, I think you'd really like the Audible Illusions preamp.
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited October 2002
    I'll give the AI preamp a look see. I'm limited because I've just spent my cash for necessities this year.

    Necessary expenditures = audio/video/other toys.

    optional expenditures = heat/light/transportation etc.

    BTW,
    I have email only at work so I will check that in the morning.

    Another BTW,
    I know the Soundcraftsmen equipment is mid level at best but for whatever reason each piece of equipment I have from them has stood up against much more expensive stuff in my upgrade path. Maybe it is a combination with my speakers or sources or whatever but there is some reason for it. However, first clue of a weakness and it's out of there as soon as cash is available.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited October 2002
    Storage question: I'm thinking so long as they are vertical that is as good as I can do? Temp is always 70 degrees C and humidity is somewhat controlled. I bought sleeves for my new LP's and for older ones that meet my criteria for sound. I plan on a pristine colection then a "used" colection with a rating system associated. Is there a standard for rating used LP's? I know, I'm compulsive but I have nothing else to think about until I get something to listen to! Is there a charge for LP-101 class?
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • Paul ConnorPaul Connor Posts: 231
    edited October 2002
    Most dealers use a standard system and I will try to recall from memory what it is.

    Sealed-Unopened in original wrap
    Mint-Open, but perhaps unplayed or very little play
    Near Mint-minor surface wear
    VG plus-(very good) visable surface wear, probably noise
    VG stay away
    G (good) stay away

    If I find the list I will post it. I have bought records on ebay advertised as near mint, that the seller had no idea what he was talking about. Beware. I will not buy a record that is not graded mint on ebay. For most of them, though, they are folks who sell a lot of vinyl and are good about standing behind it. Most only grade them visually, and that is not always a good indication of what they will sound like. With that said, I have bought near mint albums that were in sealed condition. Go figure. I was just looking at an ebay store called mymusicfix that sells mostly sealed audiophile lp's. They are pricey, but you can get a good idea of what is available out there. He has quite a few titles available.

    I'll look around for the grading system and let you know.

    Paul
  • Paul ConnorPaul Connor Posts: 231
    edited October 2002
    Here is one of the Mobile Fidelity sets I was asking about.

    http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=913309032
  • Paul ConnorPaul Connor Posts: 231
    edited October 2002
  • rlwrlw Posts: 231
    edited October 2002
    Check out the grading guide over at Bebop Records - it's pretty good.

    There's basically 2 "stanards": Goldmine (US) and Record Collector (UK). It seems like most reputable sellers use one of these, maybe with a couple of variations.

    I also found a post Here at AA that's pretty good.

    Out of all the parameters I look for, the biggest are surface shine and obvious gouges. I don't care too much about warp, as a good table can deal with that. If I can see my face in it, then there's a very high probability that the vinyl is in great shape.

    E-bay can be a good place to learn about bad grading. If you find a seller who is reputable, stick with them.

    Storage: keep 'em vertical, that's about all most collectors do. Climate control: don't store them in a garage that hits 90 degrees or in a basement that is really damp. Be prepared to devote more and more of your living space to storage.
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited October 2002
    Hey guys,
    I got the Gyro Dec today! It was packaged in three large boxes, all double boxed, packed between peanuts and wrapped in bubble wrap. This seller really put forth an effort to protect the table! I got it home and after an hour of unwrapping I put all the pieces together. It went well. The huge orbe platter clamps the record nicely and it all looks pretty massive. I was unsure how high to set the sub-base from the base and I filled the inverted bearing with the supplied oil. There is no arm yet so I will have to re-adjust the springs anyway. I plan to wrap the springs with cotton as per an upgrade I read about to eliminate 200 to 300hz resonances. The inverted bearing oiling system is awesome! After only a few turns I could see it moving a good flow of oil. The QC motor power supply is huge which is something I didn't expect. This was an older Gyro Dec and the base plate had a hole cut in it for the motor upgrade. It was cut very poorly using a drill bit and although it really doesn't matter since you cannot see it I plan on cleaning that up. There is a small crack on the otherwise pristine dust cover but it shouldn't cause too much trouble. The record clamp works very well. It obviously adds the mass of the platter to the LP with no question. I can hear the motor though. I thought it would be silent but it sounds like a rushing of water but at a very low level. You cannot feel any vibration on it though. Going that slow I would have expected it to be silent. It has four small grooves on the motor pully but only came with one belt. Maybe two for 50 Hz and two for 60 Hz??? Should I use two belts with the orbe platter? All looks good so far. Anything special I should look at? Oh yea, the bottom of the aluminum sub chassis has this black stuff pressed under neath it. What would that be?
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited October 2002
    Also,
    Is there any prevenative maintence I should perform on the motor befor I use it? Anything else you can think about?
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited October 2002
    One other thing I read about is being able to change this setup to an Orbe SE by adding some pieces and removing the GyroDec base and dust cover. Is this an upgrade or downgrade? I couldn't figure that out considering what I read. This thing is awsome as far as I can tell!
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 45,054
    edited October 2002
    Here are some additional LP sources.

    www.amusicdirect.com
    www.mfslcds.com
    www.audiophile-records.com (good guy)
    www.elusivedisc.com
    Also, check out www.stevehoffman.tv (interesting audiophile site)
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • rlwrlw Posts: 231
    edited October 2002
    Alright!

    LIFO kind of night: I suppose you could upgrade to an Orbe SE, but it would probably be a bit expensive. Right now, you have a Gorbe, as it is affectionately called. You would have to change out the plinth (the acrylic base) and add the Orbe Motor + Tacho Power Supply. I don't know what Michell would charge for that.

    I can't think of any maintenance to the motor/table you need to worry about now.

    You only need 1 belt - you might want to consider getting a new belt, but there's no way to tell until you play it. OTOH, they're cheap.

    Black stuff is part of the Gorbe upgrade: Denso-damp. Design to stop that sub-chassis from ringing.

    Did you get the record ring? The piece that goes underneath the LP to make the clamping even more effective?

    Keep us posted on your progress!
  • Paul ConnorPaul Connor Posts: 231
    edited October 2002
    Glad to hear you got (some of) the gear....
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited October 2002
    I did get the record ring. It seemed to fit slightly better one way as compared to when I flipped it over. I'm not sure which way it actually goes. I really like the way the record gets clamped.

    I set it up on a large glass shelf temporarily because it provided a lot of space to sit all the parts. The motor rushing sound goes away if I lift it off the glass shelf. (even though there is a rubber o-ring on the bottom of the motor). Maybe there should be a little more isolation between the motor and what it sits on? I can see why they want to isolate it from the plinth.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • rlwrlw Posts: 231
    edited October 2002
    One engineering parameter is noise/vibration reduction, & some designers choose to remove the motor completely from the plinth - e.g., Michell. Even the latest version of the Orbe, with a whisper-quiet motor, does this. Others claim that, of necessity due to the forces involved, removing the motor from the plinth compromises integrity of rotational speed.

    IME, the record ring goes so that the high shoulder is closest to the spindle. It seems to me to give a more consistent clamping action.

    I know of a least 1 guy who uses his Gorbe on a glass shelf. You might try removing the rubber O-ring and placing a sheet of DynaMat under it, and see if you can tell the difference. I wonder though if you get things placed on MDF if that will make a difference.

    FYI, some folks are talking about using the Ikea Lack table as the primary stand for a table. Potentially good news, given it's cost.

    I hope you get the arm today!
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited October 2002
    That table is $9.99 for the black one. Too bad it isn't about 10" longer so the power supply could sit next to the table.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • Paul ConnorPaul Connor Posts: 231
    edited October 2002
    Just got back from Triple Play Records where I scored a sealed copy of Neil Young and Crazy Horse---Sleeps with Angels. Also picked up a mint copy of ZZ Top--DeGuello. Massive Purple Throbber!!! Guess I'd better get upstairs and exercise the 1.2's!!
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited October 2002
    I have that on CD. It is one of my favorites!!! (ZZ Top Degualo that is). One of my friends has the complete ZZ top collection on LP. I envy him at this point. I do have the first two ZZ tops on lp and I'm hoping I didn't play them enough to mess them up for quality playback.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited October 2002
    Oh yea,
    Let us know how the new ZZ top "turns" out for you once you take a spin. Heh heh.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • Paul ConnorPaul Connor Posts: 231
    edited October 2002
    The new record turned great. I'm always surprised when I buy used vinyl that ends up without as much as a single pop or click. Neil Young was also a good listening experience. Can't decide how much I like this particular album though. I'll have to give it a couple more spins.

    Paul
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