Help the newbie = P

inmate-

hello everyone, im new to this forum and am thinking about getting subs for awhile, i was thinking of getting 2x Alpine Type X with a Boss BLX3500M AMP or Kole Audio KX1-4000D can you guys please input?? I was also wondering will this setup sound good in a small car like a mazda mx-6 or ford probe gt ??

awaiting you're response

Inmate-

honda cber

i recommend polk speakers.

a

1996blackmax

I ran a 12" Type-X before, very nice sounding sub that could get very low. Just make sure that you will be giving them a good amount of power. As far as the amps you listed...I would look elswhere for my power requirements.

inmate-

any suggestions for power supply?

beardog03

Polk 500.1
Polk 300.2

welcome to the forum....
with a name like that, I assume your out on parole?!!

inmate-

i was wondering about RMS sub vs RMS AMP

should they been at like 1000 vs 1000 or should it be a bit lower so the subs don't get punished to hard??

inmate-

and would 1 amp thats pumping out 2000 rms 2 ohm's be better than 2x 1000 amp subs?

Greg Peters

inmate- wrote: »

hello everyone, im new to this forum and am thinking about getting subs for awhile, i was thinking of getting 2x Alpine Type X with a Boss BLX3500M AMP or Kole Audio KX1-4000D can you guys please input?? I was also wondering will this setup sound good in a small car like a mazda mx-6 or ford probe gt ??

awaiting you're response

Inmate-

Skip the Boss and Kole products...their ratings are more likely to be WLS (when lightning strikes) rather than RMS (the power rating you'll want to concentrate on to properly match amp to sub).

If you don't want to spend more than what the Boss/Kole amps retail for, I'd reconsider the Type X subs for something that will be more efficient and will make do with less power, then go shopping for a reputable branded amp matched close to your sub's RMS rating.

If your goals are to have nice sounding bottom end, one or two Type X may be just the answer, but keep in mind the 2000 watts RMS the pair of Type X will do best with will require some electrical system modifications if you intend to play them at higher volumes on a regular basis. If your intent is to "get loud", there are better choices than a Type X.

For a small hatchback, one ten or twelve inch sub may be just the ticket- if it were me I'd look for something with lower power demands...more info on what you want to accomplish would get you some better suggestions.

1996blackmax

The 12" Type-X I had was pretty loud I thought. Did not get as loud as other subs I've had with the same amount of power, but that thing played the lows with authority like no other. Make sure you have a good frontstage to keep up though. The Polk 500.1 will not do it justice, I would stick to something that puts out about a kilowatt on that sub. A Kicker ZX1000.1 would be nice, those usually put out a little more than 1100 watts RMS.

inmate-

Well, my perspective has changed in the last couple of days although my idea of buying the type x's are still alive and well, the changes i have made are to the choice in car and the choice in amp, also i was hoping that someone could explain to me the needs and procautions i should be aware of while running 2100 RMS Watts...

SPL DK-3400D AMP-
eclipse mitsubishi CAR - 1997
2x SUB Alpine Sub's type - x

dudeinaroom

like said above, skip the amps you mentioned. Look to Rockford Fosgate, Polk, MTX, DEI, PPI, sounstream, there are plenty of good amps out there, just remember, you get what you pay for.

Greg Peters

1996blackmax wrote: »

The 12" Type-X I had was pretty loud I thought. Did not get as loud as other subs I've had with the same amount of power, but that thing played the lows with authority like no other. Make sure you have a good frontstage to keep up though. The Polk 500.1 will not do it justice, I would stick to something that puts out about a kilowatt on that sub. A Kicker ZX1000.1 would be nice, those usually put out a little more than 1100 watts RMS.

Not to give you the wrong idea- a Type X is loud when listened to with an SQ sensibility over an SPL perspective...if the OP's goal was to be heard from blocks away and accumulate tickets, the Type X wouldn't be the first choice for that purpose- especially not on the cheap (based on amp choice- Boss, Kole).

I like the Type X, but don't really consider it a budget product or one that will perform well with low power...that's the intended message of my previous post.

inmate-

So why wouldn't the SPL DK-3400D AMP be good for the type x's ?? doesn't the RMS match at 2 ohms on the amp??? (SPL DK-3400D AMP - 2100 RMS @ 2 ohm x1 ) so that would be 1050 for each Type X (1000 RMS) is there a problem with that or am i overlooking anything? Also what would be a better sub to get keeping the price range in between 200-400 per sub

MacLeod

If youre going to get a really good sub, which the Type X is, youll want a good, powerful amp that will be free of noise and cleanly make its power. An SPL amp is less likely to do this as theyre budget amps.

Im not saying you have to get a $2000 amp, but a good solid MTX or Rockford Fosgate would be a better choice.

inmate-

So the SPL is a bad amp?? But am i overlooking something, because the RMS at 2 ohm is 2100 on the amp and if you split it to 2x it becomes 1050?? What you mean by a better amp what should i be looking in the specs besides the rms wattage?

dudeinaroom

It has nothing to do with the specs. It has more to do with SPL's reputation, not high quality, not reliable. If you look at a lot of specs on Rockford, MTX, or SoundStream they actually put out more power than what is stated in the specs, with a lot of cheaper brands it's lower power than rated, or dirty power, and dirty power kills speakers.

Joelsbass

Build quality is huge, brands like boss, kole, and spl have a poor reputation for build quality. If you want good power and good value MTX is a great way to go, along with all the other brands that were mentioned.

Besides your RMS power one of the main specs that will have impact on how your subs sound is the Dampening Factor, on this number the higher it is the better off you are. Dampening Factor (in basic terms) indicates how much control the amp has on the movement of the sub. Not only the push out, but the pull back. A lower Dampening factor would basically just throw the sub out there and let it come back, whereas an amp with a higher dampening factor exerts a greater level of control on the movement of your subs cone, like a guiding hand moving the cone to the proper lengths at the proper speed to make the frequency and make it sound clean and sharp. This is where a lot of your definition comes from, and this is where you can hear the difference between a good amp and a bad amp, good amp sounds crisp and clean, bad amp sounds muddy... Hope that helps some

inmate-

oh i c. So like how bad would it sound with the SPL amp like terrible bad or just not good ?? also would it still be loud but just not crisp ?? what you mean by "dirty power" lol like and how would an low quality amp hurt a sub? and by a good quality amp you guys are referring to like 1 grand on an amp for both subs?

inmate-

I found this amp
Hifonics BXi 2006D

It runs at 2000 RMS @ 1 ohm
is this better than the SPL??
and would it still sound good @ 1 ohm

Greg Peters

inmate- wrote: »

I found this amp
Hifonics BXi 2006D

It runs at 2000 RMS @ 1 ohm
is this better than the SPL??
and would it still sound good @ 1 ohm

That's a better budget amp, in that it will actually produce close to the power it's rated for. Hifonics products have had a higher failure rate lately compared to the good old days, but it would be far superior to anything by Boss, Kole, SPL etc. Like Mac suggested, you'd be better off going with something by MTX or RF in that price range, but it's your money. I'd look at Cadence as well- well built budget amps that produce clean power and last. If you want to look at that option, I can send you a PM that will save you a few bucks.


There's much debate from the types that say "a watt is a watt" and you can't hear a difference, and with all other factors being equal (comparing similar quality items) that's true to a point, but other factors do come into play. Poor design will allow the amp to draw noise into the system, and overstated specs will cause the amp to clip fairly low on the volume dial (when trying to push your subs) causing distortion that can cause damage, compared to something better made with some headroom to keep distortion out of the mix through the useable range of volume.

The problems with cheaper amplifiers (not good amps at a budget, but specifically the poorly made crap) is that they use bottom of the barrel parts, poor engineering, misleading specifications, combined with "creative" marketing at a very low price point. They concentrate on cosmetics and "max/total/music" type power specifications to appear to keep up with better products at a lower price, making them look like a bargain. Many of these manufacturers manipulate the testing parameters to get the advertised ratings, and often require much higher voltage than what you'll achieve in a car to produce the advertised power rating. THD will be much higher than tolerable if you actually play any of these amps near the max power rating proudly displayed on the heat sink.

Not trying to get you to spend more of your hard-earned cash than necessary to get what you want...just trying to warn you away from some crap so you can use your budget better and be pleased with the end result. It's a shame to connect a Type X to a garbage amplifier- the equivalent of putting a Pinto engine in a late model Mustang with expectations of pulling a quick quarter-mile run with the combo, or even expecting it to drive smoothly around town.

eloplayspolo

http://www.cardomain.com/item/MTXTE4001D


DO IT!

inmate-

Thanks Greg you're post was very informative, and i will be awaiting you're PM for the suggestions in amp you may have.

Thanks !:D

dudeinaroom

inmate- wrote: »

I found this amp
Hifonics BXi 2006D

It runs at 2000 RMS @ 1 ohm
is this better than the SPL??
and would it still sound good @ 1 ohm

HiFonics used to killer, but lost quality in the early '90s. From what I have seen they are getting back on track. maxx sound now own HiFonics, which is the same company that makes crunch and I think they might also make earthquake.

inmate-

Are the Alpine TYPE - X's a good subwoofer? for the price range?? also regarding the amp wiring and Capacitors, for 2x alpine type -x i would need a 0 g amp wiring kit and a 3 farad capacitor??? how about like fuses and cooling fan's and also in ported box's what am i looking for to maximize the volume

najahaja

anything under 4 gauge wire for an amp is silly.

Fuses...add up what the amps fuse totals are, add about 10% and then put a fuse no more than 12" from your battery on the wire.

Joelsbass

najahaja wrote: »

anything under 4 gauge wire for an amp is silly.

Fuses...add up what the amps fuse totals are, add about 10% and then put a fuse no more than 12" from your battery on the wire.

you do realize that lower = bigger and high draw amps need larger wire right? If he's running a 2kw RMS amp 4ga ain't gonna cut it. Hell i need 4ga for just my front speakers

And you want your fuse at the battery to be lower than your total fuse rating. Say your amp has 4 30A fuses for a total rating of 120A. You'd want something along the lines of a 80-100A fuse at the battery as your continual draw will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 60A and shouldn't peak over 80A (if it's a decent quality amp). The reason for having the fuse at the battery being a lower value is so that blows long before the fuses at your amp would further reducing the risk of damage to your amp. I know I'd rather replace a $5 fuse than a $1000 amp.

I'm curious who told you to put a larger fuse at the battery than the amps necessitate?

MacLeod

I wouldnt go lower than my total amps fusing but I wouldnt go larger either.

If your amps have fuses in them then theyre not going to need protection from the inline fuse. The purpose of the in line fuse isnt to protect the amps but rather to prevent fires. If the power wire was to have its insulation stipped off somewhere along the run and arc out, having the fuse in front of the fire wall will greatly reduce the chance of fire. If you had the fuse in the trunk for instance, the power wire could arc out and all that juice would flow thru to the trunk, melt the insulation along the run of the wire and could catch the carpet on fire.

And you use the size wire you need for your power draw. If youre running 2500 watts RMS, youre going to need 1/0 gauge. If youre running 500, 4 will work just fine.

Joelsbass

I always run smaller on the fuse in the engine block, my amp on my fronts calls for 2 30a fuses so I've got a 40a in the engine and it's never once blown on me... My view is that if there's a surge i want it to blow before it even gets to my second fuse block... but that's just the kinda guy i am

MacLeod

True, but if you listen to your tunes loud or really bass heavy music, your amps can draw near their max so if yours are needing 50 amps and youre only giving them 40, you could be short changing your gear bro.

1996blackmax

inmate- wrote: »

Are the Alpine TYPE - X's a good subwoofer? for the price range?? also regarding the amp wiring and Capacitors, for 2x alpine type -x i would need a 0 g amp wiring kit and a 3 farad capacitor??? how about like fuses and cooling fan's and also in ported box's what am i looking for to maximize the volume

The Type X is a very good sub. It can get loud and stay clean doing it. Like it was mentioned before, you will need a good amount of power to extract all they have out of them. Would I pay full retail for it, no. I believe there are subs out there that will give you very good results for less. I bought mine from Crutchfield when they were on sale. As far as a cap is concerned. I know of people running more power than that witout a cap. I myself have run about 1600 watts RMS without a cap with no issues. Also, the speakers will not determine your power wiring, but rather the amplifier you will be using. A ported box will give you more output....... Why not go with another sub that will sound very good, but have more output potential. Seems as if that's what you are really after, output. A couple of subs from www.soundsplinter.com (RL-P) or www.ficaraudio.com (Fi.Q) will fit the bill. With the same amount of power these things will get louder, and still play cleanly when compared to the Type-X.



For the fuses I have always just stayed with the same values as my amps. I firgure that the engineers knew what they were doing when they desinged the amplifier.

najahaja

just remember, y7ou want to match the fuses to your wire going to the amp rather than the amp itself.

Your amp has its own fuses to protect it. YOu need to protect your wire feeding your amps from burning out, therefore must put a fuse in that would be rated to that.
That is also the reason you put it as close to the battery as possible. No use in protecing your amp when the wire fuses and burns your car out because your fuse is located in the boot.