Car Question

Serendipity
Serendipity Posts: 6,975
edited September 2007 in The Clubhouse
Sorry for this dumb question, but I was wondering if you could save gas by putting your car in neutral at every stoplight?

It seems that in Asia(China/Japan) this is standard practice but I've always wondered if it was to save gas. Don't see it much in America.
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  • venomclan
    venomclan Posts: 2,467
    edited August 2007
    The money you save on gas, you will have to pay to repair your transmission. I cannot see it saving much as most engines rev higher in neutral than in drive. My ride is a unicycle, so what do I know?
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited August 2007
    Why is it bad for the transmission?

    When I visited China a lot of people put their automatic cars into neutral at every stop.
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  • BaggedLancer
    BaggedLancer Posts: 6,371
    edited August 2007
    How many of those people shift from neutral back to drive without their foot on the brake? So it just kinda "pops" into gear.....I believe thats what venom meant by transmission problems.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited August 2007
    BaggedLancer wrote: »
    How many of those people shift from neutral back to drive without their foot on the brake? So it just kinda "pops" into gear.....I believe thats what venom meant by transmission problems.

    Didn't really pay attention at the time, but one of the taxis I was riding in was in neutral when the light turned green, and then when it took off it clunked forward violently. It was like "whirr...whirr...BANG" when it took off and was quite a jolt.

    Is this what you are talking about?
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  • bobman1235
    bobman1235 Posts: 10,822
    edited August 2007
    Automatics have what is called a "torque converter", which is basically what allows you to sit at a stop light in gear without stalling.

    Because of this, when you're at a stop sign, your engine is, in essence, idling.

    Shifting into neutral gains you nothing at all, and since your automatic transmission is not designed to be shifted back and forth from neutral every stop light, it most likely causes some extra wear and tear if you do. At the absolute least it gains you nothing, at the very most it's costing you thousands of dollars in future repairs for no gain.
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  • BaggedLancer
    BaggedLancer Posts: 6,371
    edited August 2007
    appadv wrote: »
    Didn't really pay attention at the time, but one of the taxis I was riding in was in neutral when the light turned green, and then when it took off it clunked forward violently. It was like "whirr...whirr...BANG" when it took off and was quite a jolt.

    Is this what you are talking about?

    kinda, especially if hes already on the gas a little when he moves it to drive
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited August 2007
    bobman1235 wrote: »
    Shifting into neutral gains you nothing at all, and since your automatic transmission is not designed to be shifted back and forth from neutral every stop light, it most likely causes some extra wear and tear if you do. At the absolute least it gains you nothing, at the very most it's costing you thousands of dollars in future repairs for no gain.

    I can understand the wear and tear part. So basically it's useless...
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited August 2007
    Perhaps the Taxi was in bad tune and can't idle in gear at light?

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  • lomic
    lomic Posts: 407
    edited August 2007
    My boss drove me to one of our business partner buildings once - he's Chinese American (grew up in US), and I noticed him doing this on his van. I thought it was quite strange, but interesting to know it may be culturally learned. My thoughts were similar, that it was bad for the transmission - especially if extra care isn't given to the auto trans fluid.

    However, this isn't as bad as those few people out there who think it's good to turn their car OFF at red lights and drive-thrus to save gas.
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited August 2007
    Your RPM's will probably rev higher in neutral and you'll burn more gas.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited September 2007
    PolkThug wrote: »
    Your RPM's will probably rev higher in neutral and you'll burn more gas.
    My first thought.
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  • MikeC78
    MikeC78 Posts: 2,315
    edited September 2007
    Actually, having the transmission in neutral produces less heat. In hot stop and go traffic, it's best to have the tranny in neutral vs drive.

    In neutral the transmission is totally disengaged from the engine, causing no build-up of heat from your torque convertor.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited September 2007
    That's correct that it produces less heat, but would producing less heat equal better fuel economy?
    I guess the only way to tell for sure is to use a scan tool and compare injector pulse widths and vacuum parameters between N & D while stopped.
    I would also be concerned about extra wear on the transmission selector cable.
    I have a feeling my 4400 stall wouldn't make a difference at a light. :D
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  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited September 2007
    bobman1235 wrote: »
    Automatics have what is called a "torque converter", which is basically what allows you to sit at a stop light in gear without stalling.

    Because of this, when you're at a stop sign, your engine is, in essence, idling.

    Shifting into neutral gains you nothing at all, and since your automatic transmission is not designed to be shifted back and forth from neutral every stop light, it most likely causes some extra wear and tear if you do. At the absolute least it gains you nothing, at the very most it's costing you thousands of dollars in future repairs for no gain.

    You actually DO use slightly less gas when shifted into neutral. Also, your car will not generate as much heat and you will be less likely to overheat at the stoplight. This may be the reason that you have seen people do this in the stop and go traffic of China. I read this in one of the car magazines (car and driver, Road and Track, Motortrend... one of those). When you are in "drive" and stopped, the engine is still trying to drive the wheels through the transmission, but due to the viscous coupling of the torque converter, the transmission slips. You are still putting energy into the system. When in neutral the transmission is disengaged mechanically.

    So, you wouldn't probably see an increase in gas mileage, but your car won't overheat as quickly.
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  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited September 2007
    MikeC78 wrote: »
    Actually, having the transmission in neutral produces less heat. In hot stop and go traffic, it's best to have the tranny in neutral vs drive.

    In neutral the transmission is totally disengaged from the enigine, causing no build-up of heat from your torque convertor.


    OH... thanks Mike. I should have read to the bottom of the thread. Mine seems so wordy now....
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  • MikeC78
    MikeC78 Posts: 2,315
    edited September 2007
    Nice way to describe it a_m! I'm a man of little words.:o
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  • MikeC78
    MikeC78 Posts: 2,315
    edited September 2007
    Face wrote: »
    That's correct that it produces less heat, but would producing less heat equal better fuel economy?
    I guess the only way to tell for sure is to use a scan tool and compare injector pulse widths and vacuum parameters between N & D while stopped.
    I would also be concerned about extra wear on the transmission selector cable.
    I have a feeling my 4400 stall wouldn't make a difference at a light. :D

    Well, you are putting more of a load on the engine in 'D' than in 'N', theoritically causing the use of more gas.

    The reason I'd ever put the tranny in neutral, is if I'm ever stuck in a "jam" somewhere, or idling for extended periods of time. Much easier on your tansmission...

    BTW, do you drag race?? Why such a need for a high-stall convertor?
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  • hypertone
    hypertone Posts: 150
    edited September 2007
    When a car is in neutral, the revs increase, but that does not mean economy decreases, because you are removing load from the engine. It requires less energy (fuel) to idle an engine in neutral, that one engaged in drive.

    If I'm anywhere where I'm planning to idle more than a minute without moving, I switch to N. It causes some where each time you shift to D, but it also causes wear idling in D because of the friction produced by the clutches. If it's a short stop, don't shift. If you are stuck in traffic and don't plan to move for say 2 minutes shift to N.
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  • MikeC78
    MikeC78 Posts: 2,315
    edited September 2007
    There must be a parrot somewhere in here?:confused:






    :p
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited September 2007
    MikeC78 wrote: »
    BTW, do you drag race?? Why such a need for a high-stall convertor?
    Yep. 4400 stall + 3.90 rear + 26" tire= 1.49-1.55 60's and 11.0-11.2 1/4's in a 3340lbs 400rwhp/370rwtq 98 C5. I'm up to 410rwhp and 390lb/rwtq now, hoping for 10's this fall.

    To keep it on topic, I average 20mpg on the parkway, 15 combined. :D
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited September 2007
    Face wrote: »
    Yep. 4400 stall + 3.90 rear + 26" tire= 1.49-1.55 60's and 11.0-11.2 1/4's in a 3340lbs 400rwhp/370rwtq 98 C5. I'm up to 410rwhp and 390lb/rwtq now, hoping for 10's this fall.

    I have no idea what all that means.

    On topic, wouldn't idling in Neutral mean less heat = less wear on the transmission?
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited September 2007
    I don't know brings me back 20 years ago with my Carburetor days of engines. Idle at 800 in gear 1000 out of gear same position on throttle same gasoline feed same air feed.

    In short no MPG increase doing that, just more wear on transmission.

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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited September 2007
    disneyjoe7 wrote: »
    In short no MPG increase doing that, just more wear on transmission.

    I've always wondered then, shouldn't these cars in China be all in the shop due to transmission problems? Especially in constant stop and go traffic, when the driver shifts from N to D while already on the gas?
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited September 2007
    Perhaps faster idle less load cooler engine?


    Not sure may have to ask a co-worker who was raised in China to see if she knows?

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  • BaggedLancer
    BaggedLancer Posts: 6,371
    edited September 2007
    OK, i have a solution for everyone with automatics on the forum.

    Put your car in neutral, step on the gas till about 5000 rpm, then pull it down to drive......"feel" that. :D
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  • bobman1235
    bobman1235 Posts: 10,822
    edited September 2007
    Stop driving automatics.

    Problem solved.
    If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
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  • MikeC78
    MikeC78 Posts: 2,315
    edited September 2007
    bobman1235 wrote: »
    Stop driving automatics.

    Problem solved.

    :confused: How is that? You either press the clutch or put the car in neutral, right?
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  • bobman1235
    bobman1235 Posts: 10,822
    edited September 2007
    Well, sure, but you have no CHOICE... :)
    If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
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  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited September 2007
    BaggedLancer wrote: »
    Put your car in neutral, step on the gas till about 5000 rpm, then pull it down to drive......"feel" that. :D

    Too funny.

    Someone should use this as their signature :)
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  • BaggedLancer
    BaggedLancer Posts: 6,371
    edited September 2007
    appadv wrote: »
    Too funny.

    Someone should use this as their signature :)

    It's an awesome feeling. I highly recommend only doing it on rental cars though.....
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