Class H amp??????

engtaz

I have heard of A,B,G but not H. What does Class H do differently.

Thanks

Face

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier#Electronic_amplifier_classes

venomclan

engtaz wrote: »

I have heard of A,B,G but not H. What does Class H do differently.

Thanks

It is the Happy Class.

disneyjoe7

Or sounds like HELL class, I stick too A-B classes Thank you.

engtaz

Difference between G and H

Gaara

Class D rules them all, muwahahaha.

Class G amplifiers are a more efficient version of class AB amplifiers, which use "rail switching" to decrease power consumption and increase efficiency. The amplifier has several power rails at different voltages, and switches between rails as the signal output approaches each. Thus the amp increases efficiency by reducing the wasted power at the output transistors.

A Class H amplifier takes the idea of Class G one step further creating an infinite number of supply rails. This is done by modulating the supply rails so that the rails are only a few volts larger than the output signal at any given time. The output stage operates at its maximum efficiency all the time. Switched mode power supplies can be used to create the tracking rails. Significant efficiency gains can be achieved but with the drawback of more complicated supply design and reduced THD performance.

My take from this is that G switches between a set number of rails to reduce waste and increase efficiency. Class H increases efficiency even more by having a infinite number of rails, and keeps the same efficiency with all power usage levels.

heiney9

Don't want to get into an amplifier class arguement. IMO, I don't care for class D, G or H. They have alot of noise issues and switching distortion unless done correctly which is very costly. Class D amps have gotten better but IMO, Class A and A/B amp when well designed leave them in the dust (with exceptions of course). That being said all amplifier designs have there drawbacks, but strictly on a pure sonic level Class A, A/B is hard to beat when done with care using premium components.

H9

Gaara

I personally have tried many Class D amps, many class A/AB, one Class A, and one Class H or G. I ended up with IcePower in my main rig with Class A in my PC rig.

I was never a big fan of Class D until I tried IcePower. I have heard some rave that the 1000asp module is the perfect amp, it is now used by many higher end brands like Bel Canto, PS Audio, Jeff Rowland, etc.

I wont really argue one over the other, but alot has changed with Class D. My EVS 500Ms use Class D compared to my Cinenova that uses Class A/AB.

Price is about the same, the EVS500m are 10% of the weight of the Cinenova and maybe 1/4 the size. They run cold as opposed to the Cinenova running warm, have a little less noise even though both are quite, and have no self noise while the Cinenova can have a little at times. Sound quality I would give the nod to the EVS units, more transparent with much better (measurably better) bass.

mulveling

So basically, here's a quick summary of mapping known amps to their classes:

The Sunfire amps are all class H.

The older Oulaw M200 monos were class G; they switched rails after 80 Watts (for the last 80-200 Watts). Not sure if their newer monos use this topology. I think the rest of their amps are mostly class AB.

The PS Audio, Bel Canto, Nuforce, stuff is class D (anything using the Icepower modules, plus there are other class D schemes too like the tripath and Nuforce). I've heard good things about the Icepower, though I've heard complaints that the PS Audio stuff (and probably others using these modules) are overpriced considering the parts involved.

The majority of the amps out there, SS and tube, are class AB. Anything over 60 Watts is usually NOT pure class A. There are a few out there, but they're very big and expensive. Some of the AB amps run their first few Watts in class A. An example of this is the Parasound Halo amps - and I like what I've heard from that type of design, so far. But I still like tubes better

A few companies have made a name for themselves concentrating more on pure class A designs, like Pass Labs/First Watt and Sugden in the SS world, for example.

Gaara

Just one thing, Nuforce doesn't use IcePower, they use their own technology.

mulveling

Gaara wrote: »

Just one thing, Nuforce doesn't use IcePower, they use their own technology.

You're right; my mistake

tom t

some soundcraftsmen amps are class h, they are powerfull and reliable and sound good also. i have a 5002 driving infinity 1b bass colums with ease.

engtaz

I have Outlaw M200 and I think their a great amp. I also have Adcom 555II and like it also. Some people down G and H and I was looking for reasons why people don't like them, especially when I like my M200.

cfrizz

I suspect it's the snob factor kicking in again.;)

heiney9

cfrizz wrote: »

I suspect it's the snob factor kicking in again.;)

To be frank, the Outlaw mono's are very, blah. I'm sure they are good for HT but for a serious 2-ch system, IMO they are very bland. And Cfrizz how did you like that Rotel digital amp you listened to? For me it's a matter of better sound not snob appeal.

Christ, I'm still running a 20 year old Adcom and most here would turn their noses up at. I am amazed how good it still sounds. But I have yet to find anything that wasn't a lateral move unless I step it up a couple notches to gear more oriented to 2 ch. reproduction, which mean more $$$.

CFrizz, I love you to death, but everytime someone talks about moving up the audio chain you shout about snobbery.;) That maybe true for some but I think a majority are looking that next level of sound. Some are content some are not. But just because one is not content doesn't mean they are a snob.

The better amp designs and boutique brands like Pass Labs, Monarchy, Levinson, Jolida, Manley, BAT, TAD, Classe, Belles, etc. all bring the goods in spades over more common stuff. As always in this hobby YMMV.

Have a great safe weekend everyone.

H9

Danny Tse

I am currently using a Technics HT receiver from the mid 90s, which has a Class H+ power amp section, as my headphone amp. It sounds great driving speakers as well.

RuSsMaN

Class A, all the way.

dudeinaroom

Danny Tse wrote: »

I am currently using a Technics HT receiver from the mid 90s, which has a Class H+ power amp section, as my headphone amp. It sounds great driving speakers as well.

Scrap that technics, I had a late 90's with the class H+ circuitry, and was dumb founded when I went to Adcom/Denon combo, and floored When I used an Adcom Pre with The Adcom amp.

mhardy6647

As Russ says: Hard to beat Class A (no switching, no crossover, maximal linearity) as long as you can afford the electric bill :-)

disneyjoe7

I **** about my electric bill so A-B for me.

mhardy6647

My everyday is EL84 push-pull Class AB, ca. 14 wpc.

mhardy6647

:-)

I don't think it is possible to make a bad sounding EL84 amp, PP or SE, pentode or triode mode, class A or AB.

Here's a SE pentode example...




Sorry! We were talking about Class H. That was Soundcraftsmen, wasn't it?

Face

I know the newer MaC amps are A then A/B, I can't find any info on what my older stuff is, 7270, 2125, 2105, and 250.

heiney9

Face wrote: »

I know the newer MaC amps are A then A/B, I can't find any info on what my older stuff is, 7270, 2125, 2105, and 250.

As has been stated before there are very few pure class A amplifiers over about 30-50 watts. I'm sure all your MaC's were of the A/B variety.

As an example the Pass Labs XA160 is 160 watts pure class A and it retails for $18K and adds about $100 a month to your electric bill at idle.

H9

mhardy6647

2105 and 250 were AB; the others likely were, too.
AB basically, and generally means, Class A up to some operating point, then class B. Practically speaking, it means the output devices are biased "a little bit on, but not full on".

http://sound.westhost.com/class-a.htm
http://www.duncanamps.com/technical/ampclasses.html
http://sound.westhost.com/amp-sound.htm

cfrizz

That's why I put in the little winky H9!:D I have nothing against anyone moving up to better sound, I just don't like it when they start putting down the gear they started out with like it is some **** stepchild!

As for the Rotel digital amps. I didn't like the 1077 100wpc 7 channel amp. But I was hard put to tell the difference between the 200wpc regular amp & the 500wpc 2 channel digital Rotel!

No doubt with extended listening I might have been able to tell a difference. But for the short time I listened I was satisfied with it.

heiney9 wrote: »

To be frank, the Outlaw mono's are very, blah. I'm sure they are good for HT but for a serious 2-ch system, IMO they are very bland. And Cfrizz how did you like that Rotel digital amp you listened to? For me it's a matter of better sound not snob appeal.

Christ, I'm still running a 20 year old Adcom and most here would turn their noses up at. I am amazed how good it still sounds. But I have yet to find anything that wasn't a lateral move unless I step it up a couple notches to gear more oriented to 2 ch. reproduction, which mean more $$$.

CFrizz, I love you to death, but everytime someone talks about moving up the audio chain you shout about snobbery.;) That maybe true for some but I think a majority are looking that next level of sound. Some are content some are not. But just because one is not content doesn't mean they are a snob.

The better amp designs and boutique brands like Pass Labs, Monarchy, Levinson, Jolida, Manley, BAT, TAD, Classe, Belles, etc. all bring the goods in spades over more common stuff. As always in this hobby YMMV.

Have a great safe weekend everyone.

H9

mhardy6647

I just don't like it when they start putting down the gear they started out with like it is some **** stepchild!

umm... I still have, listen to, and appreciate mine. Yamaha CA-610II, T-550 tuner, and Polk Monitor 7A speakers. Listening to "A Prairie Home Companion" on that stuff as I type this, in fact.

Yashu

Class A wins whether tubed or solid state. However, the recent developments with the new class D variations (H is basically higher tech D right?, why not call it D?), "class T" or AKA Tripath chip", are pretty exciting. Right now they don't have the power to match the big amps, but maybe the technology will grow. They are certainly more effcient than a class A amp of the same power, and from what I hear, they sound pure, fast, and extremely detailed.

The weird thing is, class B and AB amps these days can be built well enough to hang with the big boys, but remain efficient, making the Tripath amps almost left to re-invent the wheel... their main advantage so far has been their size and cost.

I also like the Tripath and other D varients because there is not much room for innovation with A or B... We have pretty much reached the limits in terms of classic amplifier design.

Gaara

Yashu wrote: »

Class A wins whether tubed or solid state. However, the recent developments with the new class D variations (H is basically higher tech D right?, why not call it D?), "class T" or AKA Tripath chip", are pretty exciting. Right now they don't have the power to match the big amps, but maybe the technology will grow. They are certainly more effcient than a class A amp of the same power, and from what I hear, they sound pure, fast, and extremely detailed.

The weird thing is, class B and AB amps these days can be built well enough to hang with the big boys, but remain efficient, making the Tripath amps almost left to re-invent the wheel... their main advantage so far has been their size and cost.

I also like the Tripath and other D varients because there is not much room for innovation with A or B... We have pretty much reached the limits in terms of classic amplifier design.

Class H isn't Class D, from what I am reading Class H uses a more efficient power supply but can feed a amp that is Class A, A/AB, D or whatever else.

As for Tripath there are higher output designs, Bel Canto comes to mind with their Evo Line which was 100wpc+. They used Tripath for a few different models until they dumped the technology for cheap better IcePower.

Yashu

IcePower, I have heard of it. Sounds pretty interesting and I was trying to find some info on bel canto's website but there isn't really anything.

I think you are right about the class H. I always felt that the D in class D was for digital, and so digital switching PSUs and dynamic rails based on that, well... anyway, I probably got carried away with trying to deal with the fact that every tiny improvement to amp design needs a new letter

Gaara

If you want info on T vs Icepower there was a good review on 6moons about it, Srajan used the older evo line in one of his setups and upgraded to new Icepower amps by Bel Canto did a nice comparison btwn the two.

If you want info on Icepower just do a google for it, it is created by B&O. Most of the modules (asp ones) come with the power supply built in, all the manufacturer needs to add is jacks and they are all set.

If you want more info you could also look at different brands that utilize IcePower now such as: Bel Canto, PS Audio, Red Dragon, Murano, D-Sonic, EVS, H20, Jjaz, Jeff Rowland, Acoustic Reality, Wyred 4 Sound, Rotel...just to name a few.