Shuold you upgrade your AVR to a dedicated preamp?....

john22614

Just thought I would share some observations in case any of you are wondering what types of improvements you would get if you were to upgrade a mid quality AVR used as a pre pro with a dedicated pre amp. I recently bought a new Outlaw 970 to replace my mid priced Yamaha RXV 630 pre pro function and here's what happened:

The sound stage became much more seamless.....you can barely tell where the speakers are loacated.

The sub bass became much tighter, clearer and more musical. NO muddy sound on the very low notes.

The overall sound is much clearer and more transparent......excellent separaton of instruments.....very clear and natural vocals.

The surround stage for HT is much improved......much better center channel vocal clarity and vastly improved seamless sound stage for moving objects.

Hope this helps if anyone is thinking about making this type of upgrade....I have found that it is definitely worth it.

rskarvan

I upgraded from a Denon3801 to a Krell KAV250P preamp and found similar benefit. I also think there is significant noise-floor benefits from going from single-ended connections to fully balanced circuitry (via XLR).

john22614

Interesting.....I didn't get the 990 Outlaw with the XLR's mostly because it was to big for my rack and I also didn't need all the extra inputs and functions....but I have heard that the XLR's make the improvement even better.

engtaz

It all depends. Most 5.1,6.1, and 7.1 setups don't need that much power for the side and rear speaker. AVR is great for that while you can amplify the front and center separately. If you are into 5.1,6.1, and 7.1 stereo then yes do go for preamp only.

john22614

I agree.....my Anthem MCA 30 is just for the front sound stage....and by the way, the Yamaha is now used to amp the signal from the Outlaw to the surrounds......so that spared me the cost of bying a new stereo amp for the surrounds which I think would have been over kill anyway.

Shizelbs

Nice mini-review John. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I am currently using a Pioneer Elite as both my prepro and amp. Just for the heck of it, I've tried mixing my Sunfire and Rotel amps into the path and I could not really notice any change. When I went from an Onkyo AVR to the Pioneer, there was an obvious change, but not when I added external amps. Still, I am quite certain that going to seperates would have its benefits. Its possible that the Pioneer has very good amps, but maybe the processing is where I could hear the improvements.

I think if and when I were to do it, I would go with either Krell or Classe seperates.

danger boy

john22614 wrote: »

Just thought I would share some observations in case any of you are wondering what types of improvements you would get if you were to upgrade a mid quality AVR used as a pre pro with a dedicated pre amp. I recently bought a new Outlaw 970 to replace my mid priced Yamaha RXV 630 pre pro function and here's what happened:

The sound stage became much more seamless.....you can barely tell where the speakers are loacated.

The sub bass became much tighter, clearer and more musical. NO muddy sound on the very low notes.

The overall sound is much clearer and more transparent......excellent separaton of instruments.....very clear and natural vocals.

The surround stage for HT is much improved.

Hope this helps if anyone is thinking about making this type of upgrade....I have found that it is definitly worth it.

Atta boy.. that's how it's done right...

everybody gather around.. and read this thread.

congrats.. and while not alot of sound come from your surrounds.. i am in the belief that any speaker will benefit from having an amp powering it.. but then i like my movies mucho loud sometimes.

john22614

Danger boy......I found I like 5 channel stereo for music on my Outlaw, so the surrounds in that mode are as loud as the front stage.....and I have noticed a sonic improvement with them as well over how they performed when the Yamaha was their processing source. The Monitor Radius 180's are about the size of a cigarette carton. Placed on their ends they take up very little real estate....and they have always sounded good....but even better now. How do you like your 990?

danger boy

John,
I really like my 990 pre amp. Had it for about 15 month's now... and I am still amazed how good it sounds in two channel stereo mode. The tuner is not that sensitive.. so a good antenna is crucial. That's the one weak spot on the thing. It's not uncommon though for tuners in alot of pre amps and AVR's to be lacking.

It does great for movies and multi channel music listening too.

john22614

Danger boy

Glad to hear you like it so much.....I'm very impressed with my 970, and I've learned a lot in the last couple of years. I don't use the tuner much bcause of iTunes air express and the upgraded internet radio stations. By the way, I love that Itunes is now offering near lossless quality music for just 30 cents more per song....very cool and long overdue. Looks like my system is finally pretty well set....don't foresee any more upgrades for a while. Thanks for your comments.....glad to hear someone with experience approves.

John

venomclan

A dedicated pre is the way to go. I used to use an Onkyo as a pre amp and then went with the Outlaw 950. I now use the Outlaw in conjunction with the Krell Kav250P, same as rskarvan. I am now looking to consolidate all these again with one preamp that can match the Krell for 2 channel but also 5.1. I have heard that the Krell pre/pro's are not that good (Showcase and HTS). I am still doing research, looking at Cary stuff now.
Venom