Guys I need so help on a Problem on a Item that I sold on the forum that UPS destroye

Shannon W.

Guys if you didn't know I finally sold my beloved Velodyne CHT-12 on the for Sale forum to bdaley6509. And all I can say to him is "Thank you" because I was Only selling it due to me having back Surgery and my Disability Insurance has been holding out on me on my check and I needed the money to pay bills.
But any way On Friday Bronson told me that he wanted it at the new dropped price of $225 + shipping.

So on Saturday I was out trying to find a box because I didn't have the original any longer (As stated in the listing). But on Sunday I sent him a E-Mail letting him know about me having trouble finding a box but I would make sure I got one that would work. He sent me a reply e-mail saying that was OK.

On Monday I went out and bought over $20 in packing materials (I.E. Bubble wrap, Styrofoam peanuts and packing tape. I paid for all of this out of my own pocket " but thats no big deal because I wanted to do everything in my powers to make sure it got to him safely") I Physically call him on the phone to touch base with him and to let him know that I was doing everything in my powers to find a proper box.<-- I admit I'm kinda an annal type of person and that is why It was taking my so long to find a box) Thats when he told me that If I couldn't get it to him by Thursday I would have to wait because he had to leave on family business and didn't want it to sit in front of his door while he was gone and I can understand why.

Luckily I found one right after noon on Monday and I wrapped the sub on all four corners and around the top and bottom with large bubble wrap! In the box I filled the bottom with peanuts and I then set the sub in the box with help from my "Don't laugh" mom do to my back. I then Filled the sides of the box with peanuts and finished by putting the rest of the peanuts on the top of the sub which filled the box to the top. I even put the Manual in a Yellow clasp envelope and put that on the top before I close the lid and taped it closed. Trust me that sub was packed tight in that box.

I then hurried back to staples to get this there before 3:30 because that is when the truck pulls out and I wanted him to get it before Thursday so he would have some time to enjoy his new sub for a little bit.

So today I have been watching all day to see when it's delivered. Well around 4:30 today I seen that it had made it to its new home. So I immediately checked my e-mail to see if he had received it and if he was loving his new toy. Well instead of a e-mail of gratitude it was a e-mail of sadness. In this e-mail he had attached some pictures of a sub that looked totally messed up.
In the last sentence of this e-mail (and I quote) "Let me know what you think we should do." here are the photos that was attached!











Well before I even stopped grieving I had the phone in my hand and I called the claim number to start the claim process. But in the e-mail this poor guy states (and I quote) "I'm afraid if I try to submit a claim, they will refuse due to insufficient packing." I assure you that that sub was packed tight and I even had the little girl at staples to place FRAGILE stickers on all four sides and I also had her put TOP on the top of the box so the people at UPS would know how to place the box in the truck. while I was on the phone with the claims office the lady told me everything I had to fax to them and the last thing she asked to fax was proof of what the value of the item was. Guess what I still have the Receipt from when I purchased the sub from CC. The bad news is that it is on that crappy paper that lets the link fade but you can still barely see the item and the cost.

So tomorrow I'm going to fax pictures of what the sub looked like before shipping and what it looked like after shipping. Also I'm faxing the receipt of the shipping cost + insurance. I'm also going to go back up to staples and see if the manager will try and enhance the copy of the sales receipt and if he will talk to the claims and verify that cost of the item because of it being so light on the paper.

Now my question is "Am I doing everything I can do to help this poor guy out?" I have shipped hundreds of items all over the world and this is the first time one of my packages has been destroyed. I'm afraid that I may be given negative feed back to stack on the for sale forum do to this problem caused by UPS. I hope that I doesn't go that far but you never know.

My Next question is how could they "UPS" deny this claim under insufficient packing? This was not just thrown in the box with nothing at all? The sub was wrapped in the Large bubble wrap and the box was filled with Peanuts.

Also Bronson I'm still going to need pictures of the box with the Fragile stickers on it and and holes or anything else that shows USP being Negligent on there end of this deal.

Any thing that you guys can ad to help I or the Recipient of this deal would be great.

Thanks again and sorry for this long and crappy story.
Shannon

schwarcw

Sorry to see this problem:( The exact same thing happened to me when I sold a set of speakers. You have no choice but to refund Bronson's money immediately, then deal with the claim. Think of it this way, if you bought something from AudioAdvisor and it arrived damaged, what would you expect?

It sucks I know. Maybe you'll get the value for the sub from UPS, maybe not. Either way you and Bronson can settle up after the claim process. Maybe UPS will give you $100 and Bronson will buy it for $100??? Work it amicably if you can but the liability here is all yours. Good luck!

VR3

Honestly,

I gotta agree with UPS on this.

Insufficient packaging. Packing Peanuts, you can shove thousands and thousands of them in a box, but all it takes is constant drops, throwing around and those packing peanuts get smaller and smaller each time.

UPS, to pass "proper packaging" has to have 2" solid foam on all sides to encase the unit.

Sorry, but I dont think this is a battle to be won... UNLESS they went through the box, which it kind of looks like they did. Not sure.

RuSsMaN

Good luck with any claim with UPS. Fedex and UPS recently (past year or so) added disclaimers regarding shipping electronics that says for them to be insured over $100 they must be packed in original factory packaging, or packed by an authorized shipping agent.

I would persue a claim, for sure - you might get lucky since it isn't an UBER high dollar amount - they may not even come out to inspect it / pick it up.

I'd also hash it out with your buyer. Ask them if they still want it, what would it be worth to them. Put a call into velo, get a price on a new grill, etc.

Serendipity

I would do the claim thing too.

Shannon W.

I have every intentions of making this right with Bronson after I find out what is going to happen with the claim! I'm not going to just hang him out in the wind.
But I still don't understand the Insufficient packaging deal when the package was clearly marked Fragile. But well see what the claims department says. even the staples personal said "that should have been enough packing and it looked as though the package was dropped."
Shannon

Shannon W.

RuSsMaN wrote: »

Put a call into velo, get a price on a new grill, etc.

Thats what he is going to try and do.

Why is it stuff like this happens as the worst time

Shannon

avguytx

Anytime I ship anything that has that sort of bulk and weight to it, bubble pack and peanuts just won't cut it because I know how any of the shipping companies are going to treat it. I tend to buy a few sheets of 3/4" polystyrene from Home Depot or Lowes and cut it to fit all around the inside of a double wall box. Even the boxes that any given unit are shipped in are lucky if they are good for one trip thru the shipping process and a second, third, etc, trip are brutal. Aout the only time I use bubble wrap is if something is very light (5lbs and down) and even then it will be in a big enough box to withstand a pretty hard drop. I shipped an 80lb Pioneer receiver last year to a place in Kansas City for being gone thru before it went to the purchases in the UK (yes, London) and I probably spent about $60 on packaging alone. But the buyer wanted it to make it there in one piece as much as I did.

As bad as I hate to say it, this will be a hard one to win if UPS (or whoever it would be) has proof of what the packaging. (I guess the driver does) It does suck to say the least. Anymore if I sell something on Ebay that has any sort of "girth" and weight to it, I state up front that I am charging accordingly for packing and if they don't like it, don't bid. It may sound harsh but I am the same way on buying something that's the same type. I've even sent a box with all the packing materials in it just to insure it made it.

Sorry to hear about the troubles...

dorokusai

I agree with Trey, it wasn't packed like it should have been. It's not your fault per se as I'm pretty sure positive this isn't a regular gig for you. The shipping of loudspeakers is serious business from my perspective.

I'm sure you folks will work something out but don't hold your breath on UPS. Settle up, move on, lesson learned. Good luck.

mulveling

dorokusai wrote: »

I agree with Trey, it wasn't packed like it should have been. It's not your fault per se as I'm pretty sure positive this isn't a regular gig for you. The shipping of loudspeakers is serious business from my perspective.

I'm sure you folks will work something out but don't hold your breath on UPS. Good luck.

Agreed. It's unfortunate, but a layer of packing peanuts and bubble wrap alone in a single box isn't sufficient to support that kind weight AND protect the contents, especially after a few 3 ft drops.

It's not that UPS goes out of their way to damage stuff - they need to run things very efficiently, and part of that process puts the packages through quite a bit of stress - that's the tradeoff for wanting our toys quickly. Once one gets a grasp of what it takes to do a UPS/Fedex-safe packing job, they'll usually find that this kind of damage becomes very very rare.

Fortunately in this case the damage looks mostly cosmetic, but next time do a double box with some more rigid support on the insides. If UPS won't take the claim, I think a partial refund to cover the cosmetic damage would be the best course of action.

tcrossma

Shannon W. wrote: »

I have every intentions of making this right with Bronson after I find out what is going to happen with the claim! I'm not going to just hang him out in the wind.
But I still don't understand the Insufficient packaging deal when the package was clearly marked Fragile. But well see what the claims department says. even the staples personal said "that should have been enough packing and it looked as though the package was dropped."
Shannon

UPS drops and throws and bumps and routes every package, and unfortunately peanuts and bubble wrap just aren't enough to protect that type of item. They also do not care about "fragile" or "top" wording, as they don't even look at the boxes as they are throwing them around. Much of it is automated anyway.

I'm sorry to say this as well, but i'd agree that you may get lucky because of the low value but if they inspect the package it'll probably be denied for insufficient packaging. You just need to use solid foam packaging with at least 2" clearance around the entire outside.

Shannon W.

Well we have came to a agreement that I will pay for a new grill "If still available". Thanks goodness the thing still works and he is happy with it.
I called the claims dept. and let them know he doesn't want a complete refund he just wants the grill replaced and what ever its going to cost to repair the enclosure. So we have worked out the details now I just hope we can get some replacement parts!
thanks again guys for all of your input!
Shannon "The guy that now knows not to send jack **** if you don't have the original package"

PolkThug

This is how you pack subs: P-Thuggy Shipping 101

Shannon W.

Good link. I wish I would have seen that three days ago. But this will work out in the end. Phucking UPS. I work for a distribution center and all i can say is if we handled items like some of you have described someones head would roll! and I we ship out over 100,000 cases a day some day a 150,000 +. we have four automated sorters running at all times one sorter runs at 180 cases a minute.
I'm still in shock that is how items are handled and packing labels are not even paid attention to or the markings on how the package is to be placed with the top up. and in our e-commerce department we ship all of it out UPS. Hum I wonder if I should shed some light on this to the higher up's about how UPS could potentially be damaging our customers products carelessly. Our E-Commerce daily UPS bill can run between $50 and 150 grand a day depending on the season and or if it is a Rush bill to the stores
Shannon

PolkThug

My other 505 was very well packed and still got the grill busted, I can't imagine the impact. I called Polk CS to order a new grill for my buyer, and Polk CS sent a new grill directly to my buyer for FREE. All hail Polk CS!

dorokusai

The only label that matters in the shipping process is the destination label, the rest is for insurance....and that's after the fact.

Early B.

A couple of years ago a pair of 80 lb. ea. speakers were shipped to me. One of the speakers had the crossover detached from the bottom of the speaker. It had been dropped so hard that the screw became loose.

I don't ever wanna ship speakers or receive them either, unless I can return them if they are damaged during shipping.

dragon1952

A large sub has got to be one of the more difficult items to pack. The heavy weight makes shifting inevitable. I did successfully pack one that got all the way from the west coast to Florida but I'll tell you, I had probably 12 lbs of packing material....heavy folded over cardboard and styrofoam packed on the corners and down every side, bottom and top. Bubble wrap and peanuts are virtually worthless on something of this size and weight unfortunately. You won't stand a chance with a claim I'm sorry to say.

Shannon W.

Well I hope all you guy saying I have no chance for a claim are wrong! ANg guess what? My laptop that I do all of my buisness with just took a crap and duped everything! Now I lost everything! At least I still have a Desk top upstairs to try and recoop my stuff. This has been one of the worst days I've had in a long time.

Thanks!
Shannon

mulveling

If you do need to ship a large and expensive pair of speakers, lay down the cash for a freight company to ship 'em on a pallet! It's well worth the cost for the piece of mind. My Tannoy Dimensions were delivered to me that way, and everything from speakers to boxes arrived pristine.

engtaz

All UPS will do is deny claim and throw speaker in trash. That is their only option given. Been there, been told that. My only recourse was to keep sub (limited availability) and the sender offered me a little back.