F1 v. production

heiney9

Silverti wrote: »

Isn’t "V-TECH" a wireless telephone brand???

It's called a typo, deal with it. I'm pretty sure I got my point across. No need to get so defensive. I never said the S2000 was a bad car but there are many others out there as good or better. I am not a Japanese car fan so no one will ever convince me they have a racing heritage and have some sort of racing mystique behind their marque. Did I use the correct words in that sentence .

H9

heiney9

BTW, variable valve timing and variable length intakes are not exclusive to Vtec engines nor did Honda invent or perfect this phenomenon.

H9

audiobliss

Silverti wrote: »

Then you understand the creation and history of the S2000, all of the F1 inspired features and technology? Things such as the gauge cluster and the return of the "start" button. The 9K RPM red line with piston speeds that actually exceed those of F1 engines (at least in 2000 spec form) right? Suspension design and such. The fact that its hand made in the same factory that the NSX was hand made and such? You know, those historical things that people who usually hate on the car and refer to the engine as “V-TECH” don’t know?

The technology that backs it even to this day that cars in its price range of $32000 can’t touch on a track with the exception of newer models that came out like the Evo and Sti.

Sure it aint no Vette but in 2000 it sure as hell gave even a stock C5 Vette a run for its money stock for stock on a track. Most people said it was superior however the Z06 stomped the hell out of it as does the C6.

No, I was not aware that the S2000 is hand-assembled in the same plant as the late NSX, that the gauge cluster was influenced by F1 design, that the feel of the start button was derived from F1, or that the piston speeds exceed those of some F1 cars. I was also unaware that any of the above had any affect whatsoever on a car's performance.

Now, I guess I could go on in this reply with a 'hateful' attitude, but I don't want to. Instead, I'd like to state I have nothing against the S2000. In fact, I'd love to have one. Would be a nice, fun, good-handling little car, with a nice exhaust note. I'd be thrilled to drive it to school everyday. I have no dislike for it.

And, those little historical facts I made light of above, though they really do have nothing to do with performance, I can see how they're neat and how a Honda fan would get all giggly about them. However, don't bring a knife to a gun fight. They have nothing to do with performance, and that's all this thread was talking about.

I've read that the S2000's powerband is waaaaay too high to be of much use on the road, but that it's very convenient on the track and that the chassis is good on the track as well. So I'm sure it is a great track car.

But to compare it with F1?

The C6 is an awesome machine. Even moreso the C6 Z06. Wow. Boy is it an awesome machine. And it's also one that I have as much love and devotion to as I imagine you do to the S2000. And as you said earlier, I'm sure the new Z06 could stomp on an S2000 quite easily. But, I'm not about to compare it to an F1 car.

Systems

Silverti wrote: »

The 9K RPM red line with piston speeds that actually exceed those of F1 engines (at least in 2000 spec form) right?

Current F1 V8's rev at a shockingly fast 19k.They could rev even faster but I believe the regulations limit them to that.It's amazing that they can even last a lap let alone the mandatory 2 consecutive races.:eek:

janmike

That was awesome. Jesse, I can't imagine what that would be like live. WOW!

Sami

Silverti wrote: »

Things such as the gauge cluster and the return of the "start" button.

My 745i has a start button, should I compare it to a F1 car? I have nothing against the S2000, it's a neat little car that has decent handling, but that and the Z06 have nothing to do with F1's.

petrym

Silverti wrote: »

You know Hondas in F1 right?

And they are currently sucking eggs...

F1nut

Honda and Toyota are both in F1. Both have some of the largest budgets in F1, with Toyota reported to have the largest, and both suck. 'Nuff said.


As GV stated, redline is restricted to 19,000, they could do 21/22K. Anyway you look at it, that's considerably faster than 9K.


Michael, it was rather interesting as the two other cars, one a TOTL Benz, looked and sounded like they were on the very edge while the F1 wasn't breaking a sweat, yet flew by the other two like they were standing still. You could hear 200,000 people say WOW in unison.

jdhdiggs

F1 cars are on an entirely different level than any other level of cars, race, production, or otherwise. I suppose funny cars and top fuel dragsters can out accellerate them but as soon as you'd need to slow down or turn your toast. Even supercars like the Ferrari F-40 and the McClaren F1 can't even come close to touching their performance. Comparing them to a production car is fairly insulting. As soon as you can pull four or five g's around a corner in your 2000, then you can compare.

If you're talking about technology transfer from the racing circuit to production cars, there's nothing new about that. Hell, Mini-Vans have many features originally developed at the track.

Systems

F1nut wrote: »

Honda and Toyota are both in F1. Both have some of the largest budgets in F1, with Toyota reported to have the largest, and both suck. 'Nuff said.

Suck indeed,Honda must miss those glory days with McLaren and Senna.I don't think either will be in the sport much longer pissing away hundreds of million dollars to finish 12th.

Jstas

I thought that F1's current engine standard was a V10? IRL cars use V8s and Champ Cars use small displacement V8s that run at insane boost levels. There used to a a few teams running Buick V6s in Champ Cars way back in the 80's and early 90's, when it was called CART.

I'd add to the fray but audiobliss pretty much sums it up quite well.

As far as a car to compare to an F1 car? The Ferrari Enzo is essentially that with much of the same running gear as an F1 car but with a full body and room for a passenger. Oh and it'll wipe the floor with a Corvette of any kind, an S2000, any version of a Lotus Elise and pretty much 99% of the cars in the world that aren't a dedicated race car.

S2000s are snazzy little cars but I would honestly rather have my Lightning. Stomping the go pedal in that is just way too much fun!

GaryZ06

Jstas wrote: »

The Ferrari Enzo is essentially that with much of the same running gear as an F1 car but with a full body and room for a passenger. Oh and it'll wipe the floor with a Corvette of any kind, an S2000, any version of a Lotus Elise and pretty much 99% of the cars in the world that aren't a dedicated race car.

!

That will change for for the model year 2009....Corvette will be releasing a version that will change that...

Systems

Jstas wrote: »

I thought that F1's current engine standard was a V10?

It was until last season.In an effort to control speeds the rules where changed and teams were required to use 2.5 litre V8's.

F1nut

What GV stated bears repeating. That's a 2.5 litre V8, about the same displacement as most 4 cylinder passenger car engines, producing between 800 to 900 horsepower without any turbo, supercharger or other boost enhancement. WOW!

petrym

F1nut wrote: »

What GV stated bears repeating. That's a 2.5 litre V8, about the same displacement as most 4 cylinder passenger car engines, producing between 800 to 900 horsepower without any turbo, supercharger or other boost enhancement. WOW!

Hey Nut,
Actually the displacement is 2.4 liters with HP about 750-800. (Wish my minivan could do half that...)

The current F1 lap times are getting very close to the 3 liter V10 days with the new seamless shift transmissions and the improved aero - Kimi was only .5 seconds off Schmumacher's record at the Hungarian GP last week when he pipped Hamilton's fastest lap on his own last lap.

Kimi RULZ!

Systems

Yes your right it is 2.4 litres but I thought I heard that atleast one them is breaking the 900hp barrier.Either way thats a s**t load of power from a dinky little engine.

F1nut

LOL.....I knew they were 2.4, but doubted myself and went with GV's 2.5. Thanks for setting the record straight. I know some of the top runners are pushing way more than 800hp, hence my comment.

Kimi is a great driver, no doubt, but there will be no championship for him this year. Maybe next year.

Jstas

GaryZ06 wrote: »

That will change for for the model year 2009....Corvette will be releasing a version that will change that...

How will that change the Ferrari Enzo? And since when does GM compete in any world class racing venue let alone F1? The Corvette is an awesome car, no doubt there at all. However, it is just flat out outclassed by the likes of Ferrari. You'd have to go to extreme specialist companies Koenigsegg or Pagani or even Caparo to find a vehicle that can best a Ferrari Enzo and still be street legal. Although Ford does come close with the severely under-rated and blisteringly fast GT. GM has nothing that can come close. Nothing at all.

Besides, on top of that, every damn year GM and Chevy start harping about the next greatest Corvette and each year, it seems to somehow fall short of the hype. I'll believe your statements when I see this super Corvette. Meanwhile, I'll continue saving my pennies and dimes and try to pick up a used Ferrari F355 F1.

F1nut

And since when does GM compete in any world class racing venue let alone F1?

GM competes in the Le Mans Series, racing modded Corvette's in the GT1 class. They rountinely beat the Ferrari's racing in GT2. A few years ago GM backed a pair of Cadillac's racing the P1 class (top dogs). They were very respectable and were only bested by the Audi's, although not always. Cadillac was catching up quickly when GM pulled the plug, which happens all the time in the Le Mans Series. I've seen both the Corvette's and the Cadillac's race. I've also seen their paddock/pit/shop areas, world class all the way.

F1nut

Well, they call it a production car and claim it can do 273mph.

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/automotive/newmodels/39339/

I'd take the Bugatti.

MikeC78

Don't forget the price difference between the Corvette and the Ferrari. For the money, I'll take the Corvette. For snob appeal, I'll take the Ferrari.:)

engtaz

That's great.

petrym

I'll take a Z06... with paddle shifters if they have them.

GaryZ06

Jstas wrote: »

How will that change the Ferrari Enzo? And since when does GM compete in any world class racing venue let alone F1? The Corvette is an awesome car, no doubt there at all. However, it is just flat out outclassed by the likes of Ferrari. You'd have to go to extreme specialist companies Koenigsegg or Pagani or even Caparo to find a vehicle that can best a Ferrari Enzo and still be street legal. Although Ford does come close with the severely under-rated and blisteringly fast GT. GM has nothing that can come close. Nothing at all.

Besides, on top of that, every damn year GM and Chevy start harping about the next greatest Corvette and each year, it seems to somehow fall short of the hype. I'll believe your statements when I see this super Corvette. Meanwhile, I'll continue saving my pennies and dimes and try to pick up a used Ferrari F355 F1.

First off check out the LeMans racing series....The Corvette C5R and the current C6R.....check out their domination and get back to me.Outclassed by Ferrari how.....I don't understand.Google the Nurburg Ring.This is where all the world comes to see how their car performs.....Check out the time of the Z06.It even beat your Zonda.The new Super Corvette yet to be named but rumored name of Blue Devil,Z07,Z08 will have a 6.2 liter Supercharged motor and lighter than my current Z06......It WILL debut at the upcoming Detroit auto show in January.But please get back to me on how Ferrari outclasses the Z06.....I love all sport cars

GaryZ06

petrym wrote: »

I'll take a Z06... with paddle shifters if they have them.

No paddles.....Only a real 6-speed:D

Sami

GaryZ06 wrote: »

No paddles.....Only a real 6-speed:D

If they put in a dogbox or sequential, I'll give it a try.

heiney9

Arguing about cars is like arguing about cables.

I'll take a Ferrari anyday over a Vette or Viper. I guess that means I'm a snob.

My most attainable and argueably the best looking Ferrari - Dino 246 GTS. Yep a six banger with less than 200 hp, but was a classy looking car and most feel it's the best, most balanced handling Ferrari ever built. Certainly far from the fastest.

H9

GaryZ06

heiney9 wrote: »

My most attainable and argueably the best looking Ferrari - Dino 246 GTS. Yep a six banger with less than 200 hp, but was a classy looking car and most feel it's the best, most balanced handling Ferrari ever built. Certainly far from the fastest.

H9

Dino was Enzo's departed son.

heiney9

GaryZ06 wrote: »

Dino was Enzo's departed son.

Yep, died in a crash in 1956. For years Pinninfarina tired to get Enzo to build a mid-engined car and Enzo refused because he thought it would be to dangerous to have a V-12 in a mid engined car. At that time only "true" Ferrari's had 12 cylinders. He relented because Pinninfarina convinced him to put a 6 cylinder engine which would built on the assembly line at Fiat using Ferrari derived parts. Enzo relented and said yes to a 6 cylinder Ferrari based car but said it couldn't be called a Ferrari because it didn't have 12 cylinders so they came up with Dino in honor of Alfredino, his son. It became the best selling Ferrari of that time.

H9