Speakers vs Headphones

AsSiMiLaTeD

Your thoughts? I'm not looking for 'Speakers are good headphones are bad' so much as general thoughts.

What are some of the characteristics or each, pros / cons, which do you prefer and why. etc....?

dkg999

Well, late at night my neighbors prefer I use headphones :rolleyes:

I wasn't much of a headphone fan until lately. It was probably more to do with junk headphones than anything else. I acquired a pair of Grado SR-80's and found I really enjoyed watching movies late at night with them. Both the Yamaha I had previously, and the current B&K AVR have very good headphone modes for movies. I also have a pair of Grado SR-225's, but I find the bass on the SR-80's is much better for movies.\

For music, I have the Grado SR-225's and an ASL tube headphone amp I bought here on the forum. That combination is really nice for music, and provides a nice change from listening to my speakers. I can also enjoy music while the kids are watching a movie. The headphones won't replace my speakers, but with decent quality gear it's a very nice change and the detail you can hear is amazing.

heiney9

I don't like headphones because you can't hear what's going on around you unless you get the open kind which kind of defeat the purpose of headphones. SDA's are similar to headphones. If I had to use headphones to enjoy music it's better than no music at all but I like to feel the music and you can't recreate the dynamics and scale with a pair of headphones.

H9

AndyGwis

I like my headphones, but, as Heiney points out, they are open design which lets in and gives off serious sound.

Basically, I can still hear what's going on around me, and conversely people around me can hear almost as much of the material as I hear.

Still good for detail music listening and listening to movies late night in bed, but if I crank it, it will be too loud for people sitting / sleeping near you. Bad for planes / travel.

Ricardo

I prefer speakers, but have a pair of Sennheiser wireless that sound surprisingly good and use sometimes for late night movies, and sometimes when I'm mowing....Don't use them for two channel though.

danger boy

the Sennheizer ones I have.. i think they are 590s. i bought from a member here.. sound really good.. closed cans.. but i do need an amp for them. i can tell the amp in most components isn't powerful enough.

My Outlaw 990 pre amp has three different Dolby Prologic settings.. the first one sound really good.. better than in stereo. the wide open surround sound is quite pleasing to listen to music on.

open air ones that i've used in the past let in to much outside noise... and i could not concentrate on the music.

RuSsMaN

The detail is super tough to beat. With some good cans, you'll hear and pick out things in your favorite music you've never noticed before. The biggest issue I think people have with headphones is either getting used to the music being 'in your head' instead of mostly in front of you, the second is comfort - some entry level headphones are VERY uncomfortable.

Cheers,
Russ

madmax

I have the HD-600 headphones. I mainly like to use them as a reference to get a good feel for what my speakers "should" sound like tonally. They don't tell me anything about the bass but for mids and highs it shows me where I'm off.

A good headphone amp makes all the difference if competition with speakers is the goal.

AsSiMiLaTeD

That seems to be what I'm noticing - exceptional detail, but no soundstage to speak of...

mulveling

Big headphone fanboy here. Where else can you get all the purity of a single-driver, point source, crossover-less system along with the satisfaction of full-range 20-30K reproduction? Killer PRaT - I will be very surprised if/when I hear a set of speakers that keeps up the pace with my Iron Maiden & Iced Earth albums as well as my Audio-Technica L3000 headphones do (or hell, even the $300 Sennheiser HD650). You also get almost complete freedom from room acoustics issues that plague most systems. Headphones also have something of a special synergy with vinyl, freeing your turntable from the issue of vibrational feedback from your speakers.

In the headphone world, world-class quality starts at only about $3K for both headphones & amp (no preamp necessary - and the best headphone amps can double as killer preamps). Though, as with speakers, you can spend that much and still end up with a system that sounds like crap. Fortunately, unlike the speaker world, the choice in the hi-end aren't nearly as numerically intimidating. There is a significant difference between the abilities of said top-notch headphones systems and the more typical good-but-not-super setup. The latter will still let you enjoy the super resolution and freedom from room effects, but it will be sorely lacking in dynamics, imaging, palpability of instruments, and/or the ability to convey the emotion of the music. Don't mean to come off as elitist, but I feel that's where a lot of the speaker-preferring folks on head-fi (some of them with pretty expensive headphone setups that they don't very much enjoy) are at.

To be fair, the headphone presentation will always be mostly "in your head", and many folks raised on speakers will not be able to get past that, no matter how good everything else is. Nothing wrong with that. I'm one who enjoys both the expansive soundstage & tactile impact of speakers and the intimate headstage of headphones (and incidentally I was raised mostly on headphones). I'll also readily admit that my experience with high end headphones & amps is more far extensive than what I've done with speakers. Of course I do have a very nice speaker setup that I find quite enjoyable They're two different and completely valid ways of enjoying the same great music, though I feel like I have to spend much more on speakers to approach the same level of quality in my headphones.

I think a lot of folks would be surprised at the true capabilities of headphones, and most will never experience this - it's not often taken seriously. When that combination of speed, liquidity, organic natural tone, soundstage/headstage layering, and killer dynamics/impact all comes together in a killer headphone setup, it's a thing of beauty.

My main headphone setup consists of a SOTA Star TT, Singlepower SDS headphone amp, and Audio Technica L3000 headphones (the HD650 gets use too). All three of these components I'd consider my top 3 audio/electronics purchases ever (in terms of enjoyment rendered). The L3000 and SDS have easily survived a very crazy 2 years of hifi binge/purge on my part. They're items to take to the grave, seriously

Kearin

Well this is probably from a different perspective but wanted to chime in with my thoughts. When I use headphones I use them to shut out noise of the world and focus my hearing more on the smaller sounds and footsteps in games.

Speakers are great for rich sounds from games but when you are in the midst of a death match on PC or Xbox you are not worried about the prettyness of the orchestra on the sound track but rather the slinking footsteps of the approaching enemy.

Since my deployments with the military and bored nights in a hooch with 8 other guys playing Medal of honor I got used to blacking out all the noise of them by escaping into my headphones and fully engaging in the environment within the game.

Now if its not multiplayer and its just there for enjoyment I will crank up my surround sound and let the encompassing sound of the game truly sink in as it was truly meant to be played...but against the computer and not real thinking enemies.

RuSsMaN

Polkmaniac wrote: »

That seems to be what I'm noticing - exceptional detail, but no soundstage to speak of...

A proper head rig has a killer soundstage, better than most 2ch rigs by a long shot.

steveinaz

Headphones sound great, but I like the room being energized with music---it feels more "real."

AsSiMiLaTeD

RuSsMaN wrote: »

A proper head rig has a killer soundstage, better than most 2ch rigs by a long shot.

It looks like I need a proper rig then

madmax

Polkmaniac wrote: »

It looks like I need a proper rig then

There are some high end headphone amps out there but they cost a lot. My latest one brings the headphones to life so I know what Russman is talking about. I can actually sit down and enjoy headphones or speakers now.
madmax

mulveling

madmax wrote: »

I have the HD-600 headphones. I mainly like to use them as a reference to get a good feel for what my speakers "should" sound like tonally. They don't tell me anything about the bass but for mids and highs it shows me where I'm off.

A good headphone amp makes all the difference if competition with speakers is the goal.

Actually for bass too - headphones can be far far more accurate and resolving - you do miss out on the tactile pounding over your whole body, however. It is quite expensive to get a satisfactoy sense of bass slam and impact with headphones, but it can be done. The L3000 (HD650 a close 2nd) with a top-notch Singlepower amp is the only way I've found so far, but there may be other ways.

Go ahead, measure the in-room response for your speakers. I'll bet the vast majority of us have some pretty big peaks or dip in there somewhere. Just the nature of standing waves in a boxy room It takes a LOT of bass traps to start to correct this.

sucks2beme

What I tend to hear on my hd650's is best described as an elipse for a sound
stage. The vocalist is normally directly in front of me with the rest either being slightly
behind the vocalist or various points to the left or right.
Sometimes it sounds like I'm inside the elipse with the vocalist facing me, and the other
sounds are to the left, right, or behind me. That makes for an odd presentation.
It's kind of like sitting in with the band.
With 2 channel speakers, the sound is normally more lifelike.
Keep in mind most recordings are done in ways that are in no way
like a live concert. There are some bi-aural recordings made for headphones,
that re-create sitting in a live concert.
Most of Club Polk members have never heard, or will ever hear higher
end headphones in a good setup. There is one dealer here in Dallas that has one of
the best Grado/Stax demo setups I've ever run into.
Other than that, time to catch a head-fi meet.
Detail and sound with no room reflections give you a different reference
point for what makes a system sound good.

jmwest1970

I suppose it's my crappy Seinnheisers but I have no imaging at all. It's like I'm on the stage and everything is going on around me. I'd love to hear some cans with good imaging, but I don't think they sell those in Arkansas. :rolleyes:

Shizelbs

One of the best things about headphones is that its much cheaper to get quality sound with headphones than with what it would take to get the same sort of quality from a speaker setup. Off the top of my head I can think of a setup that would probably cost no more than $1000 and be nearly impossible to get that quality for the money with speakers.

Russ is right, as usual, about the detail. I thought my Amazings were giving me a lot of detail, but then I went back to some in ear monitors and then I really knew what detail was.

However, headphones are not without their compromises. If you need a big soundstage, cans may not be for you. Some of them are very uncomfortable. The Sennheisers I used to use were VERY comfy, but my ears would get a little too warm after a while. I think cans are at times more fatiguing than speakers after a few hours.