Harman Kardon sound bad on old Rti Series?

dbaldus

After talking with a few people both here and on AVSForum, I have gotten the impression that my new Rti70s (and the CSi40 that I am looking to buy) do not sound good on my Harman Kardon AVR-247.

I am not sure why these people are claiming this, especially because the RTi series is toward the higher end of Polks and they recommend high current amplifiers for them (which the Harman Kardon definitely IS).

I feel sick just thinking that I bought these great speakers at a great price, then finally upgraded from my Sony receiver to a nice Harman Kardon, only to find that the combination is bad and that they could sound a lot better if I wasn't using an HK!

Could someone please comment on this? I'm wondering why these people would think that... or is this just a known fact about the combination of RTis and HKs that I did not know about? If so, please explain.

Thanks in advance!

jakelm

Who ever said that is an idiot....no offence.

HK is a great AVR for just about every speaker out there.

Seperate amps will be better in most cases, but hooked to the HK's preouts will sound fantasctic.

Which HK do you have or buying?

I have the 635. Better than Denon, Sony, Onkyo, Pioneer "elite", Yamaha.

I wouldnt hessitate to hook it to any speaker on the market.

HK and any Polk line are a perfect match.

heiney9

Perhaps if a_mattison sees this thread he'll chime in. he has RTi 70's and an HK AVR which he runs and is extremely satisfied. He has since added an external amp, but not because he was unhappy with the sound he wanted more power.

What do you think it sounds like? That's all that matters. I've never heard anyone say that HK and Polk RTi aren't a good match.

H9

dbaldus

Sorry, I meant to add that...
I have an AVR 247

jakelm

dbaldus wrote: »

Sorry, I meant to add that...
I have an AVR 247

You'll be very happy. The only thing is maybe, if your not happy with the dB output, you can add an external amp. But as for SQ and EQ and DTS DD processing, I'm sure you will be very happy.

Ron Temple

Though I post over there alot...every **** has an opinion, but there's more **** than opinions on AVS. Check here for all things Polk, you'll get much better advice. The HK will be better than fine...if you're talking floorstanders, follow up with an amp down the road.

dbaldus

heiney9 wrote: »

Perhaps if a_mattison sees this thread he'll chime in. he has RTi 70's and an HK AVR which he runs and is extremely satisfied. He has since added an external amp, but not because he was unhappy with the sound he wanted more power.

What do you think it sounds like? That's all that matters. I've never heard anyone say that HK and Polk RTi aren't a good match.

H9

I personally think it sounds good, but the problem is that I don't know if it could sound "better" or if it SHOULD sound better (if I were to buy a Denon or something like that instead of the HK).

What I am saying is that it is easy to be fooled into thinking that something sounds great if you've never heard anything that sounds better (or if you have never heard a particular set of speakers sounding like they SHOULD sound).

Like I probably think that my Rtis are great, but that is because I've never heard the Lsi line. See what I'm saying?

jdhdiggs

I had an HK amp and the RT800's (Precursor to the 70's) and they sounded great!

I would say that HK and the LSi series don't seem to mix to well, but the RTi series are awesome with the HK. Don't worry. The RTi70's aren't that power hungry.

dbaldus

Ron Temple wrote: »

Though I post over there alot...every **** has an opinion, but there's more **** than opinions on AVS. Check here for all things Polk, you'll get much better advice. The HK will be better than fine...if you're talking floorstanders, follow up with an amp down the road.

I've never even thought of getting an amp for them... but now that you mention it (and this is probably a whole different discussion)...

What would you recommend for an amp to go with my AVR-247 to drive my Rti70s? Would I bi-amp them or whatever the extra two connectors are for on the back of my 70s? Would I only run that when I was running 2-channel mode for music listening, or would I also have the extra amp powered on when I was watching movies and doing things in multi-channel surround?

aaharvel

jdhdiggs wrote: »

I would say that HK and the LSi series don't seem to mix to well, but the RTi series are awesome with the HK.

yes +1

Mike Reeter

Not to worry,I have had the 70's and a CSI40 powered by a Denon 3803...and they sounded great.

Your HK will more than likely make them sound even better.

kingtut

Mike Reeter wrote: »

Not to worry,I have had the 70's and a CSI40 powered by a Denon 3803...and they sounded great.

Your HK will more than likely make them sound even better.

I have the same system, but I have external amps to drive the speakers. They even sound better w/amps.

I had HK 525 (I believe) driving the Rti70s and CSI 40. They sounded good, not as good as the external amp, but pretty good nevertheless. Who ever told the OP that HK doesn't mate well w/RTi is giving erroneous advice.

Ern Dog

dbaldus wrote: »

I personally think it sounds good, but the problem is that I don't know if it could sound "better" or if it SHOULD sound better (if I were to buy a Denon or something like that instead of the HK).

What I am saying is that it is easy to be fooled into thinking that something sounds great if you've never heard anything that sounds better (or if you have never heard a particular set of speakers sounding like they SHOULD sound).

Like I probably think that my Rtis are great, but that is because I've never heard the Lsi line. See what I'm saying?

Rest assured that HK & Polk are a perfect marriage. Sit back and enjoy your new rig and don't worry so much about what you've heard on forums. What matters most is whether you are enjoying the sound of the music. You don't even need to sweat adding an external amp. Just today, as a comparison I switched over my Rti10's to my HK 635 instead of my B&K amp and noticed only a slight improvement using the separate amp. So don't stress about needing to add an amp asap. It is surely an emprovement adding an amp, but many people are happy just using their HK too.

dbaldus

Ern Dog wrote: »

Rest assured that HK & Polk are a perfect marriage. Sit back and enjoy your new rig and don't worry so much about what you've heard on forums. What matters most is whether you are enjoying the sound of the music. You don't even need to sweat adding an external amp. Just today, as a comparison I switched over my Rti10's to my HK 635 instead of my B&K amp and noticed only a slight improvement using the separate amp. So don't stress about needing to add an amp asap. It is surely an emprovement adding an amp, but many people are happy just using their HK too.

Thanks for the reassurance - I definitely feel much better now (which is exactly why I started this thread)

I'm confused on one thing, though.... I thought I would be using an amp along with my AVR to drive the RTi70s... not just one or the other. Could someone explain this to me?

sageleo

you could power your 70's with the avr or you could get a power amp and hook up your avr to that via pre outs and hook speakers up to the amp.

jmwest1970

dbaldus wrote: »

After talking with a few people both here and on AVSForum, I have gotten the impression that my new Rti70s (and the CSi40 that I am looking to buy) do not sound good on my Harman Kardon AVR-247.

I am not sure why these people are claiming this, especially because the RTi series is toward the higher end of Polks and they recommend high current amplifiers for them (which the Harman Kardon definitely IS).

I feel sick just thinking that I bought these great speakers at a great price, then finally upgraded from my Sony receiver to a nice Harman Kardon, only to find that the combination is bad and that they could sound a lot better if I wasn't using an HK!

Could someone please comment on this? I'm wondering why these people would think that... or is this just a known fact about the combination of RTis and HKs that I did not know about? If so, please explain.

Thanks in advance!

I have the RTi70/CSi40 combo and they sound great on my lil bitty HK AVR125. I'd love to give them more power, but the low end AVR doesn't have pre-outs. The only thing I can think of that would make them sound better may be something like an AVR247 with Outlaw or Marantz monoblocks. You're already headed in the right direction with your AVR, so add some power to see what they'll really do!

dbaldus wrote: »

Thanks for the reassurance - I definitely feel much better now (which is exactly why I started this thread)

I'm confused on one thing, though.... I thought I would be using an amp along with my AVR to drive the RTi70s... not just one or the other. Could someone explain this to me?

Your AVR247 has pre-outs on the rear. To add an amplifier you would disconnect your speakers from the AVR247, connect external amplifier(s) to the pre-outs on the rear of the AVR247, and then connect your speakers to the amplifier(s). At this point you're using the AVR247 as a Pre Amplifer and power to the speakers is coming from the external amplifiers.

Willow

First thing, why would you let others tell you what sounds good to you ? If you like it end of story !

Second, I have a 335 with the newer series Rti and like them alot, mind you they are amped with outlaw and marantz monos..... but before I got the amps I liked the enjoyed the sound for TV and movies.

surfntomm

first of all i am one of those people that old him that HK does not sound that graet with that rti series (70's, csi40, 38's,28's).

out of everyone here who says that they do go well together have you ever listened to those exact speakers in the exact same place with a different amp/receiver.

i did numerous tests with rti38's on an HK3800 i believe (stereo receiver), denon 2106, and rotel rb980bx with rotel pre.

hands down...myself and my room mate were almost in awe as to how the denon and the rotel made the rti38's go from any old speaker to something that actually makes you want to keep listening cus it sounds so good.

The mate with the HK and rti's does work and it does make sound but they are not so well mated since the older rti is more laid back and so is the HK. The music just lacks character and depth to it with the HK.

I would love to hear what people have to say that have heard the older rti series with an HK and something else.

You could try it for yourself and just buy something else in a store and if you are not satisfied then return it. right?

let your own ears be your guide and if you like it better than forget what i said but to me is was a vast difference.

jakelm

If your talking about the HK3380, then I have to disagree.

The 3380 is a great stereo reciever.

Granted I havent listened to them in the "excact" same place. But the place I heard them was not in the ideal place either.

I prefer the natural sound that Polk and HK create, a sound easy to listen too and not eq'd in that agrivating "V" style.

The AVR247 (which is what is going to be used), has even more clearity, especially if he uses with EZ EQ.


But we shall agree to disagree.

Its all opinion anyways..

dbaldus

surfntomm wrote: »

first of all i am one of those people that old him that HK does not sound that graet with that rti series (70's, csi40, 38's,28's).

out of everyone here who says that they do go well together have you ever listened to those exact speakers in the exact same place with a different amp/receiver.

i did numerous tests with rti38's on an HK3800 i believe (stereo receiver), denon 2106, and rotel rb980bx with rotel pre.

hands down...myself and my room mate were almost in awe as to how the denon and the rotel made the rti38's go from any old speaker to something that actually makes you want to keep listening cus it sounds so good.

The mate with the HK and rti's does work and it does make sound but they are not so well mated since the older rti is more laid back and so is the HK. The music just lacks character and depth to it with the HK.

I would love to hear what people have to say that have heard the older rti series with an HK and something else.

You could try it for yourself and just buy something else in a store and if you are not satisfied then return it. right?

let your own ears be your guide and if you like it better than forget what i said but to me is was a vast difference.

Thanks for input - hope I didn't offend you by starting the thread, I just wanted to see why people were telling me this. Unfortunately, you were not the first to mention it nor were you the last! I'm hoping that maybe some of the other people who mentioned the "bad pairing" will chime in on this thread as well... though I am not going to point fingers or force anyone to do so.

In any case - thanks!

jakelm

DB, you go to one forum and hear mostly negative reviews, you go to another forum and hear mostly possitive.

That should tell you something...

Ron Temple

A forum like AVS has alot of knowledgable members and a plethora (nice word huh) of types of gear used from top to bottom. Along with it you get fan clubs shouting the praises of their favorites mixed with equal measures of pointless posts and some gems from folks with direct experience. surfntomn is a good example. I've tried mid Pio, Onk and Denon on Polk Rs, RTi8s and SDAs and prefer the HK sound, but that's just me. I also like laid back with warm...put some nice ICs on them and you'll get all the detail with no harshness.

danger boy

jakelm wrote: »

DB, you go to one forum and hear mostly negative reviews, you go to another forum and hear mostly possitive.

That should tell you something...

don't go to forums... :rolleyes:

dbaldus

jmwest1970 wrote: »

I have the RTi70/CSi40 combo and they sound great on my lil bitty HK AVR125. I'd love to give them more power, but the low end AVR doesn't have pre-outs. The only thing I can think of that would make them sound better may be something like an AVR247 with Outlaw or Marantz monoblocks. You're already headed in the right direction with your AVR, so add some power to see what they'll really do!



Your AVR247 has pre-outs on the rear. To add an amplifier you would disconnect your speakers from the AVR247, connect external amplifier(s) to the pre-outs on the rear of the AVR247, and then connect your speakers to the amplifier(s). At this point you're using the AVR247 as a Pre Amplifer and power to the speakers is coming from the external amplifiers.

You mentioned a Marantz monoblock... would one like this suffice, or what did you have in mind? (Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I've never looked into doing something like this so I am clueless as to what I should even look for. I was completely surprised when I saw how cheap this was though, so I am assuming this is NOT what you are talking about!):

http://cgi.ebay.com/Marantz-MA500-Mono-Block-Power-Amplifier-THX-Certified_W0QQitemZ300139886986QQihZ020QQcategoryZ67786QQcmdZViewItem

Ron Temple

dbaldus wrote: »

You mentioned a Marantz monoblock... would one like this suffice, or what did you have in mind? (Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I've never looked into doing something like this so I am clueless as to what I should even look for. I was completely surprised when I saw how cheap this was though, so I am assuming this is NOT what you are talking about!):

http://cgi.ebay.com/Marantz-MA500-Mono-Block-Power-Amplifier-THX-Certified_W0QQitemZ300139886986QQihZ020QQcategoryZ67786QQcmdZViewItem

A friend of mine drives GR AV-2s with MA500s, a 4 ohm speaker. They sound very nice...that won't be the final selling price, but if you can get a couple for less than $200/ea. you are doing fine. The MA700s are even better.

jmwest1970

dbaldus wrote: »

You mentioned a Marantz monoblock... would one like this suffice, or what did you have in mind? (Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I've never looked into doing something like this so I am clueless as to what I should even look for. I was completely surprised when I saw how cheap this was though, so I am assuming this is NOT what you are talking about!):

http://cgi.ebay.com/Marantz-MA500-Mono-Block-Power-Amplifier-THX-Certified_W0QQitemZ300139886986QQihZ020QQcategoryZ67786QQcmdZViewItem

The MA500s are very good for this application, but the MA700 is better. However, good luck on finding MA700s. Most people that buy them keep them. There are 4 MA700s for sale on Audiogon at the moment. If you're running a 5 channel HT system there is also this Marantz MM9000.

As usual, no affiliation with the links.

surfntomm

im glad to see this thread getting so many responses, i do agree that forums will have people saying stuff that they have not really experienced themselves.

If you have a fry's locally im sure you can try out their hk receivers with the newer rti line and compare that to how it sounds with your stuff as a starter to see if you prefer something not so laid back.

either way like someone above me said it is all opinion and if it sounds good, let it be.

dbaldus

Ron Temple wrote: »

A friend of mine drives GR AV-2s with MA500s, a 4 ohm speaker. They sound very nice...that won't be the final selling price, but if you can get a couple for less than $200/ea. you are doing fine. The MA700s are even better.

So each one of these MA500s is sufficient for driving two speakers, correct? I am running a 5.1 setup, but only do 2 channel stereo for listening to music, so would I just want to get one MA500 to power my 70s since I am using R15s for rears (which I don't think really need an external amp)?

Or if I run one set of speakers with an external amp, do I need to run them ALL like that?

Ron Temple

dbaldus wrote: »

So each one of these MA500s is sufficient for driving two speakers, correct? I am running a 5.1 setup, but only do 2 channel stereo for listening to music, so would I just want to get one MA500 to power my 70s since I am using R15s for rears (which I don't think really need an external amp)?

Or if I run one set of speakers with an external amp, do I need to run them ALL like that?

Not correct...the MA500 and 700s are monoblock amps...one channel each.

Since the MA500s and 700s are scarce, you might want to look around for a 2channel amp. Carver TFM or M.xx amps can be found from $300-400 or and Adcom GFA555 for about the same. There's always a few on ebay. Plenty of clean power in one box.

dbaldus

Ron Temple wrote: »

Not correct...the MA500 and 700s are monoblock amps...one channel each.

Since the MA500s and 700s are scarce, you might want to look around for a 2channel amp. Carver TFM or M.xx amps can be found from $300-400 or and Adcom GFA555 for about the same. There's always a few on ebay. Plenty of clean power in one box.

I guess the word "mono" in the name monoblock should have given it away

Well, would you recommend getting a 2 channel amp like the ones you mentioned or just two Marantz MA500 monoblocks (if I could find a pair of them for cheaper than buying a two channel amp)?

And would I end up wanting to run external amps to all five of my speakers, or just the fronts (the Rti70s)? Remember, my other speakers are R15s!

Ron Temple

dbaldus wrote: »

I guess the word "mono" in the name monoblock should have given it away

Well, would you recommend getting a 2 channel amp like the ones you mentioned or just two Marantz MA500 monoblocks (if I could find a pair of them for cheaper than buying a two channel amp)?

And would I end up wanting to run external amps to all five of my speakers, or just the fronts (the Rti70s)? Remember, my other speakers are R15s!

That's an either/or question. If you can find 2 MA500s cheaper, sure. However, both the Adcom and Carvers I mentioned will have a bit more headroom. So will Outlaw monos which come up here all the time (M200s). I'd go with whichever quality amp you can find that fits your budget. You don't need amps to drive R15s and I doubt there'd be much benefit.