Bi-amping using my NAD T773...awesome!!
Comments
-
Ah ha . . . I don't think we could call it bi-wiring either. . . so did Phil come up with something new?
-
And to comment on the other poster....
The tweeter may only use a few watts, because the crossover crosses over the signal.
However, the amp is actually powering a 20 - 20hz signal until it reaches that crossover, then it is broken down. But the power is still working just as hard as before - even if it is just a tweeter.
Thats what it comes down to with the crossing of the amps part...- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
The tweeter may only use a few watts, because the crossover crosses over the signal.
However, the amp is actually powering a 20 - 20hz signal until it reaches that crossover, then it is broken down. But the power is still working just as hard as before - even if it is just a tweeter.
Actually, the amp is still powering 20 to 20K, but it is not working as hard. The woofer section on the CSi40 is 4.5ohms, the tweeter section is 400Kohms. Don't know the actual measurements of his speaks, but they will also have much higher readings on the tweeter circuit compared to the woofer circuit. How much power do you think the amp puts out into a 400Kohm load? Very little. -
Maybe I'm missing something here. If the T773 can run all 7 channels at 110watts, & in stereo mode (2 channel...run 145watts) then if I'm taking the extra unused amp or unused power (surround back speakers) & bi-amping it with the power going to the fronts, how does that not increase the power going to my mains? I have speaker cables from the front channel going to the mid/woofer & speaker cables fron the surround back channel going to the tweeters. Running in stereo doesn't that make it 145watts to the tweeters & 145watts going to the mid/woofer? It seems logical, but then again what the hell do I know. It really doesn't matter how much the tweets & mid/woofer actually use (normal speaker usage is 10-12watts I believe) it's just that the reserve power is there when needed. I did email NAD & I'm waiting for a reply. Interesting topic for me, thanks for all the technical info."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
-
I have never in my life seen a 400k ohm tweeter?
Every tweeter I've ever had in my speakers have been the normal 4 or 8 ohm load by themself? And draw upwards of 50-100 watts continuous.
An amp will power a 20-20 hz signal regardless... it dosnt know what it is powering unless you tell it otherwise, which has to be done before the amp receives its signal. Not afterwards.
If you send a 120 watt signal of 20-20hz, to my understanding, its always going to be a 120 watt signal of 20-20hz... that is until you put something like a crossover before the amp receives the signal...- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
pearsall001 wrote: »Maybe I'm missing something here. If the T773 can run all 7 channels at 110watts, & in stereo mode (2 channel...run 145watts) then if I'm taking the extra unused amp or unused power (surround back speakers) & bi-amping it with the power going to the fronts, how does that not increase the power going to my mains? I have speaker cables from the front channel going to the mid/woofer & speaker cables fron the surround back channel going to the tweeters. Running in stereo doesn't that make it 145watts to the tweeters & 145watts going to the mid/woofer? It seems logical, but then again what the hell do I know. It really doesn't matter how much the tweets & mid/woofer actually use (normal speaker usage is 10-12watts I believe) it's just that the reserve power is there when needed. I did email NAD & I'm waiting for a reply. Interesting topic for me, thanks for all the technical info.
I think you are putting 220 to each speaker....110 on highs, and 110 on mid/lows....Technically, those channels are still driving something, so the 145 rule would not apply....Just my thought...... -
Phil, Phil, Phil....look at the trouble you cause with your shenanigans.
You should have just stated that "good, Nad, sound" and none of this would have started.
MikeModwright SWL 9.0 SE (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC with Oyaide 004 terminations)
Consonance cd120T
Consonance Cyber 800 tube monoblocks (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC's with Oyaide 004 terminations)
Usher CP 6311
Phillips Pronto TS1000 Universal Remote -
Mike this stuff starts if someone mentions vanilla ice cream!!!!
-
I don't know if it is my imagination, but this stuff seems to be getting worse around here lately.Modwright SWL 9.0 SE (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC with Oyaide 004 terminations)
Consonance cd120T
Consonance Cyber 800 tube monoblocks (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC's with Oyaide 004 terminations)
Usher CP 6311
Phillips Pronto TS1000 Universal Remote -
I have never in my life seen a 400k ohm tweeter?
Neither have I. I am talking about the entire tweeter network, including crossover. Do you have any speakers on hand with Bi terminals? If so, remove any jumpers, and measure each set of terminals. This does not give you a true reading, but it will demonstrate what I am talking about.If you send a 120 watt signal of 20-20hz, to my understanding, its always going to be a 120 watt signal of 20-20hz... that is until you put something like a crossover before the amp receives the signal...
But your not sending 120 watts, due to the higher impedence. The higher the impedence, the less power the amp will put out. -
hearingimpared wrote: »Mike this stuff starts if someone mentions vanilla ice cream!!!!
Vanilla ice cream tastes like chocolate."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Midnite Mick wrote: »Phil, Phil, Phil....look at the trouble you cause with your shenanigans.
You should have just stated that "good, Nad, sound" and none of this would have started.
Mike
I had to liven things up around here, it was getting too boring!!!
Anyway, I'm still looking for the magic answer. I don't think anyone's put their finger on the answer yet, just a lot of theory & speculation. Any thoughts?? "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
well its called passive biamping because the passive crossovers are still used.What he is gaining is some extra headroom.Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »Technically you arnt biamping, you are just powering to like signals into two jacks.
"True"biamping using an active crossover that divides the signal before the amps has many more benifits than the passive version.True biamping would have an amp crossed over to only runs the highs, and the other amp cut off from powering the highs -- so its doing all it can for each individual piece.Testing
Testing
Testing -
pearsall001 wrote: »I had to liven things up around here, it was getting too boring!!! Anyway, I'm still looking for the magic answer. I don't think anyone's put their finger on the answer yet, just a lot of theory & speculation. Any thoughts??
Nah, I am not smart enough for all this. Try it without the fancy bi-output and then with it. Listen to some very dynamic music at a high volume and let your ears decide. I just know if I like what I hear or I don't...I am simple folk I guess:)
I personally think that all of their arguing over what is going on would be dependent on the design of this specific unit itself. I would sooner pose this question to Nad and/or someone that is knowledgeable of this specific unit if I really wanted to know.
Glad you are enjoying things nonetheless.
MikeModwright SWL 9.0 SE (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC with Oyaide 004 terminations)
Consonance cd120T
Consonance Cyber 800 tube monoblocks (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC's with Oyaide 004 terminations)
Usher CP 6311
Phillips Pronto TS1000 Universal Remote -
Midnite Mick wrote: »Nah, I am not smart enough for all this. Try it without the fancy bi-output and then with it. Listen to some very dynamic music at a high volume and let your ears decide. I just know if I like what I hear or I don't...I am simple folk I guess:)
I personally think that all of their arguing over what is going on would be dependent on the design of this specific unit itself. I would sooner pose this question to Nad and/or someone that is knowledgeable of this specific unit if I really wanted to know.
Glad you are enjoying things nonetheless.
Mike
That's the first thing I did was to shoot an email off to NAD posing the question at hand. Then I posted here to get feedback on the same question. I got a lot of diferent takes on this bi-amping issue. I've read a lot of theory & speculation on the different answers here but I don't know which one or if any of the responses are correct or not. As soon as I hear back from NAD I'll post their answer (hopefully the correct one ) "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
more bad information from Vr3 read more type less Dodd - Battery Preamp
Monarchy Audio SE100 Delux - mono power amps
Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player
ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B
DIY Stereo Subwoofer towers w/(4) 12 drivers each
Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp
Outlaw ICBM - crossover
Beringher BFD - sub eq
Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..." -
Midnite Mick wrote: »I don't know if it is my imagination, but this stuff seems to be getting worse around here lately.
It starts becuase we come running in here to check to see what everyone else wrote and to then say something in return hahaha it is entertainment and frustration all wrapped into one lil forum !
:cool: " He who dies with the most equipment wins Right ? "
Denon 3300 Adcom 535 BBe w/sub out 1 pr 4.6s 2 pr of 4 jrs Recent additions Samsung Lns-4095D LCD, Samsung hd-960 DVD, Monster HT-5000 Power center,HPSA-1000 18" sealed DiY home sub.:D
Black Laquer 1.2tl's w/ upgraded x-overs and Tweets BI-Amped with 2 Carver tfm-35's Knukonceptz 10ga cables -
New audio term warning!!!!!!!!
I guess the NAD with two power supplies wired this way is giving him Separately Powered, Passively Filtered Biamping.
Put that in your signature Phil!!HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable
2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable -
Sweet Dennis !:cool: " He who dies with the most equipment wins Right ? "
Denon 3300 Adcom 535 BBe w/sub out 1 pr 4.6s 2 pr of 4 jrs Recent additions Samsung Lns-4095D LCD, Samsung hd-960 DVD, Monster HT-5000 Power center,HPSA-1000 18" sealed DiY home sub.:D
Black Laquer 1.2tl's w/ upgraded x-overs and Tweets BI-Amped with 2 Carver tfm-35's Knukonceptz 10ga cables -
Dennis Gardner wrote: »New audio term warning!!!!!!!!
I guess the NAD with two power supplies wired this way is giving him Separately Powered, Passively Filtered Biamping.
Put that in your signature Phil!!
Dennis, they use the same power cord so in a sense NOT seperately powered
:D "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Dennis, they use the same power cord so in a sense NOT seperately powered:D
Unicorded...........HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable
2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable -
Chocolate ice cream tastes like chicken
If he hears a difference, there must be a difference. None of you have accounted for the geographical differences in electron composition created by the earth's axial rotation. Depending on where the NAD power supply components are manufactured or the time of the year, they might have the denser molecular properties that are know by many audiophiles to create a sweeter tube-like sound and also enhance the ability of a torridal transformer to supply multiple channels of sound. DKG999
HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED
Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC -
Vanilla ice cream tastes like chocolate.
Listen the merits of chocolate ice cream are obvious. It is well documented that most people like chocolate better than vanilla but eat vanilla anyway. Studies have shown that those who actually like chocolate better than vanilla but eat vanilla really love strawberry better but are ashamed to admit it. Now on the other hand a new study has come out that proves without a shadow of a doubt the butter in butter pecan ice cream can be toxic when mixed with the pecans but people who say they like butter pecan ice cream have no problem eating butter almond but with butterscotch syrup on it to counter act the toxicity of the butter in the butter pecan . . .
. . .so what does this all mean . . . YOU ARE WRONG!
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: -
pearsall001 wrote: »I had to liven things up around here, it was getting too boring!!! Anyway, I'm still looking for the magic answer. I don't think anyone's put their finger on the answer yet, just a lot of theory & speculation. Any thoughts??
You did that already when you said it sounded wonderful! -
Far be it for me or anyone else to tell Phil what he hears.As long as it's good to your ears Phil,rock on bro.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Cant we all just go mono... ??
madmaxVinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Cant we all just go mono... ??
Well...with everyone going back to tubes and vinyl, I guess mono is the next logical step. Why not?:p -
I'm NOT!!!!:D I have zero interest in going back to the old days.:DWell...with everyone going back to tubes and vinyl, I guess mono is the next logical step. Why not?:pMarantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
-
I didnt give misinformation. I gave partial information that wasnt complete.
What I said was -- if you do not cross your amps over before they receive their signal, they are still processing and powering a full 20-20hz signal.
Now, this is what I learned on this board ages ago, but the gentleman that told me this neglected to tell me that on a tweeter network, the amp will see a 400kohm load. Which, irregardless -- is still powering a 20-20hz signal, just at a nuch higher impedance...
I didn't give wrong information, you are just being a jerk
To me, all he is doing is basically taking two 2 channel amps and running it into his speakers. Applying alot more power to each individual part. Which of course is going to give more headroom, but still wont have the advantages of active biamping.
Makes more sense to me to just get one large amp ---
But he is definitely applying more power - just not in the sense to me should be called biamping. But whatever. Passive biamping, sure sure...- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
