What's the best SVS for music?

Serendipity
Serendipity Posts: 6,975
Hi,

I'm interested in an SVS sub that is well suited for music applications. Although I find their subs to be very good, they aren't as musical as my DIY subwoofer.

So whats the best SVS for music applications?
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Post edited by Serendipity on
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Comments

  • MikeC78
    MikeC78 Posts: 2,315
    edited August 2007
    Email SVS, they'll give you the best possible answer.
  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,663
    edited August 2007
    VMPS I have heard are better for music and SVS better for HT.
    VMPS in FM
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55837
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited August 2007
    MikeC78 wrote: »
    Email SVS, they'll give you the best possible answer.

    Thanks. I did some research on the SVS website and it looks like the 25-31 series is my cup of tea.

    It says "If popular music is your main source of pleasure (which is nearly all above 25Hz)a 25-31PCi or PC-Plus is probably your best choice."
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
  • Ron Temple
    Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
    edited August 2007
    Probably the little SB12+ will do the sealed trick. Honestly, I don't find SVS subs lacking in musical ability at all...because they trawl so deep they can be subject to wicked room gain and any deep chasms, suckouts, will accentuate the low bass and make one think they don't do a very good job in the upper bass. If you can get them flat, they are extremely musical...takes time and patience...or a second sub ;^).

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE
  • MikeC78
    MikeC78 Posts: 2,315
    edited August 2007
    Ron Temple wrote: »
    Probably the little SB12+ will do the sealed trick. Honestly, I don't find SVS subs lacking in musical ability at all...because they trawl so deep they can be subject to wicked room gain and any deep chasms, suckouts, will accentuate the low bass and make one think they don't do a very good job in the upper bass. If you can get them flat, they are extremely musical...takes time and patience...or a second sub ;^).

    +1

    Don't forget that the new Ultra has a sealed option. Can't wait until the reviews start rolling for the PB13!
  • Strong Bad
    Strong Bad Posts: 4,278
    edited August 2007
    This whole thing that VMPS is better for music is total nonsense.

    Talk to Ed at SVS and he'll give you the skinny on all things subwoofer. He's great to talk to and is extremely knowledgeable. He'll squash that "SVS is not musical" BS by telling you how it is, not just because he works for SVS.

    Remember, any sub must be setup properly, tested and tuned, then minor tweaking applied to get the most out of it. You can't just find any old spot, plop it down, plug it in and expect magic to happen.

    John
    No excuses!
  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,663
    edited August 2007
    I did not say SVS was bad with music. It is good for musi.
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
  • Grimster74
    Grimster74 Posts: 2,573
    edited August 2007
    My guess is the SB12+ is best suited for music out of the SVS lineup due to it being a sealed enclosure although I've never had one complaint about my dual PB12-Plus/2's. The best thing to do is contact SVS.
    Money Talks, Mine says Goodbye Rob!!!!
  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited August 2007
    How about a PB10 sealed?
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited August 2007
    the SB12 looks like a fantastic subwoofer. I wonder how it would do in larger rooms?
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited August 2007
    the SB12 looks like a fantastic subwoofer. I wonder how it would do in larger rooms?

    Not sure if it would work well in my 21.5*22*8 room.
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
  • dkg999
    dkg999 Posts: 5,647
    edited August 2007
    I have the SB12+ running as a low-end extension for my Magnepan 1.6's. It is in a cram packed living room in my apt, so I haven't done anything except plug it in and do some gain and phase adjustment. This sub is very quick, has good range and SQ, and keeps up very well with the bass panels in the Magnepan's. It was amazing how well it blended in without much work at all. I don't run it very loud, but I get the feeling it would work well in a medium sized room. I compared it directly to a Martin Logan Grotto, and a REL Storm III. It killed the Grotto. The REL was better, but probably moved you from an 8 to a 10, the REL was not twice as good for twice the price of the SVS. The Cherry/Rosenut finish on the SVS is really nice.
    DKG999
    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC
  • Ron Temple
    Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
    edited August 2007
    appadv wrote: »
    Not sure if it would work well in my 21.5*22*8 room.
    25-31+ or another PC/B+ would be the minimum I'd go in that room...you're right...too big for a single SB.

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE
  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited August 2007
    Thanks. Although my current sub is calibrated -3db lower than the mains, it's a monster sub and fills the room with ease. I'd think a sub such as the 25-31PC+ will at least match my DIY sub for output.
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
  • rtart
    rtart Posts: 832
    edited August 2007
    I've got two 25-31PC Plus's in a fairly large room, and play a lot of DVD audio discs and SACDs. I use a Velodyne SMS-1 for bass management, and couldn't be happier. The SMS-1 allows several different bass response curves for different listening needs. The one for movies has a little more emphasis on explosions and LFE, while the one for music is, well, more musical.

    A sub should ideally reproduce the signal supplied to it accurately, and should not "color" its sound. The SVS's do this as well as any subs around. The overall goal, of course, is to interface the subs with the room without adding boominess or other resonances. The only way I could fully take advantage of the subs in my HT was by using some sort of bass management system. I started with a Behringer parametric EQ, manually calibrated with a SPL meter and graphing software, and eventually invested in the SMS-1, which has an auto-cailbration capability. After installing and calibrating the SVSs, I initially noticed less bass at times. I eventually realized that my old uncalibrated subs sometimes sounded louder when they interacted with my room at some frequencies (boominess)and the SMS-1 fixed that. I also found that several spots in movie soundtracks had enormous LFE responses, where I had not noticed them before. The SVSs certainly have the guts to reproduce the bass when needed.

    Just my $0.02 worth.
    My 7.4.4 DIY 4k Home Theater:
    Polk LSiM 707 L-C-R, LSiM702 side surrounds, LSiM 705 rears
    Polk LSiM 702s x 4 on the Ceiling Atmos speakers
    2 x SVS PB12/Plus 2's
    Denon X3700H
    Emotiva XPA11 Gen 3
    XBox One X 4k & BD and streaming
    Panasonic UB-420 4k player
    HD-A35 HD DVD
    Oppo BD-103D for hirez audio
    Technics SL-D2 TT, Grado Gold Cartridge
    JVC DLA-RS2000/NX7 projector
    Silver Ticket 120" acoustically transparent screen
    Berkline 090 electric recliners with Aura Bass Shakers
  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited August 2007
    rtart wrote: »
    I've got two 25-31PC Plus's in a fairly large room, and play a lot of DVD audio discs and SACDs.

    How large is the room?

    I also like a well-calibrated sound from my subs.
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
  • rtart
    rtart Posts: 832
    edited August 2007
    My HT is 16' x 27', with 9' ceilings. Around 3,600 cubic feet. Two SVS subs fills it well. However, I have RT2000p's as mains, two CS400is for centers (trying to find a CS1000p to replace them), two FX1000's for side surrounds and two RT1000is for rear surrounds. The subs in the RT2000p's provide enough bass for most people, but I really believe high bass sound pressure levels add a LOT to the movie experience. i also have bass shakers in each chair, and love to see people jump when an explosion goes off in a movie.
    My 7.4.4 DIY 4k Home Theater:
    Polk LSiM 707 L-C-R, LSiM702 side surrounds, LSiM 705 rears
    Polk LSiM 702s x 4 on the Ceiling Atmos speakers
    2 x SVS PB12/Plus 2's
    Denon X3700H
    Emotiva XPA11 Gen 3
    XBox One X 4k & BD and streaming
    Panasonic UB-420 4k player
    HD-A35 HD DVD
    Oppo BD-103D for hirez audio
    Technics SL-D2 TT, Grado Gold Cartridge
    JVC DLA-RS2000/NX7 projector
    Silver Ticket 120" acoustically transparent screen
    Berkline 090 electric recliners with Aura Bass Shakers
  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited August 2007
    rtart wrote: »
    My HT is 16' x 27', with 9' ceilings. Around 3,600 cubic feet. Two SVS subs fills it well.

    Very similar to my room. I'm also considering two SVS subs (preferrably the 25-31PC Plus) to fill the room with balanced sound.
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
  • rtart
    rtart Posts: 832
    edited September 2007
    Can't beat SVS for price/performance. I had friends over last weekend and played the Spiderman 2 scene where the bad guy turns on the evil machine. When the lasers turn on, and the machine starts up, the sound is heart stopping.

    I chose dual PC plus's instead of the PC Ultra based on price and value. The PC Ultra is basically the PC Plus with a single band EQ and I think a larger amp. Bass SPL is about moving air, and a single sub has to have a LOT of travel to move as much air as two subs. A SMS-1, or one of the new receivers with bass EQ (like Audyssey Multi XT), or a Behringer BFD EQ will allow you to tailor the sub to your room. You can but two PC Plus's and a BFD for a couple hundred more than a PC Ultra. (However, if I could find a couple of Pc Ultras used at a good price......)

    Take a look at SVS B-Stock section to save a few bucks.

    BTW, the 25-31 is the right choice for HT.

    Have fun!!
    My 7.4.4 DIY 4k Home Theater:
    Polk LSiM 707 L-C-R, LSiM702 side surrounds, LSiM 705 rears
    Polk LSiM 702s x 4 on the Ceiling Atmos speakers
    2 x SVS PB12/Plus 2's
    Denon X3700H
    Emotiva XPA11 Gen 3
    XBox One X 4k & BD and streaming
    Panasonic UB-420 4k player
    HD-A35 HD DVD
    Oppo BD-103D for hirez audio
    Technics SL-D2 TT, Grado Gold Cartridge
    JVC DLA-RS2000/NX7 projector
    Silver Ticket 120" acoustically transparent screen
    Berkline 090 electric recliners with Aura Bass Shakers
  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited September 2007
    rtart wrote: »
    BTW, the 25-31 is the right choice for HT.

    How's it for music though?

    I'm looking for a sub that sounds good with both movies and music.
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
  • MikeC78
    MikeC78 Posts: 2,315
    edited September 2007
    From the reviews over at AVS, the new SVS Ultra PB13 is the king. Outgunning the new $3500 JL Audio Fathom 113.

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9164136#post9164136

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=889659
  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited September 2007
    MikeC78 wrote: »
    From the reviews over at AVS, the new SVS Ultra PB13 is the king. Outgunning the new $3500 JL Audio Fathom 113.

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9164136#post9164136

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=889659

    Impressive sub. Looks like it's perfect for my HT at home.

    A little overkill for my dorm room though...

    Too bad I'm in college right now.
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
  • MikeC78
    MikeC78 Posts: 2,315
    edited September 2007
    Perfect sub for a dorm room!:D
  • beardog03
    beardog03 Posts: 5,550
    edited September 2007
    I find myself lusting after the new SVS sealed 12, and the new Ultra..

    The SB-12 plus keeps calling my name !

    I think I will sell my PB10 (Nice little sub !), and maybe my PC-Ultra and get them both (ultra 13& SB12)

    I am completely sold on SVS...outstanding products, and stellar CS
    Cary SLP-98L F1 DC Pre Amp (Jag Blue)
    Parasound HCA-3500
    Cary Audio V12 amp (Jag Red)
    Polk Audio Xm Reciever (Autographed by THE MAN Himself) :cool:
    Magnum Dynalab MD-102 Analog Tuna
    Jolida JD-100 CDP
    Polk Audio LSi9 Speaks (ebony)
    SVS PC-Ultra Sub
    AQ Bedrock Speaker Cables (Bi-Wired)
    MIT Shotgun S1 I/C`s
    AQ Black Thunder Sub Cables
    PS Audio Plus Power Cords
    Magnum Dynalab ST-2 FM Antenna
    Sanus Cherry wood Speak Stands
    Adona AV45CS3 / 3 Tier Rack (Black /Gold)


    :cool:
  • kuntasensei
    kuntasensei Posts: 3,263
    edited September 2007
    In my opinion, the "musicality" of SVS subs is entirely dependant on proper setup. Because they aim for flat anechoic response by design, you really need to make sure that you have all your speakers in phase with the sub (double-checking distance/delay settings helps) and nail optimal crossover points for your speakers (1/4 to 1/2 octave above the speaker's -3dB point is a safe bet).

    I've been running my 20-39CS+ with an ART-351 EQ since I got it so I could smooth out room response, and I've always been fairly happy with how it sounded with music. Then recently, I upgraded my receiver to the Onkyo 705which has Audyssey MultEQ XT... and that sucker did such a great job of equalizing my speakers and sub that I don't need the ART-351 anymore. Musically, it's now like I'm in the room with the bassist.

    So basically, it's like having a really nice car... You have to tune it to get the most out of it. Regardless, I'd shoot an e-mail to Ed at SVS and he can give you a good idea of which sub works best for a given room size, setup and sound.
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen
  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited September 2007
    I've been running my 20-39CS+ with an ART-351 EQ since I got it so I could smooth out room response, and I've always been fairly happy with how it sounded with music. Then recently, I upgraded my receiver to the Onkyo 705which has Audyssey MultEQ XT... and that sucker did such a great job of equalizing my speakers and sub that I don't need the ART-351 anymore. Musically, it's now like I'm in the room with the bassist.

    Which amp are you using with the CS+? I like the powered PC+ and PB+ models but would like to know about going with a "separates" approach (amp+sub).
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
  • rtart
    rtart Posts: 832
    edited September 2007
    appadv wrote: »
    Which amp are you using with the CS+? I like the powered PC+ and PB+ models but would like to know about going with a "separates" approach (amp+sub).

    Not to hijack, but I've had SVS passive and active subs. I now use the actives, simply because it's usually cheaper watt-for-watt to buy active than to buy the subs and amps separately. I used a Carver 251WPC amp, which worked fine, but I already owned it. Would have been a lot more money to buy the amp and passive subs than to buy the PC Plus. In addition, the active amps usually have some crossover and phase control, and the separates do not (unless your receiver does it.)
    My 7.4.4 DIY 4k Home Theater:
    Polk LSiM 707 L-C-R, LSiM702 side surrounds, LSiM 705 rears
    Polk LSiM 702s x 4 on the Ceiling Atmos speakers
    2 x SVS PB12/Plus 2's
    Denon X3700H
    Emotiva XPA11 Gen 3
    XBox One X 4k & BD and streaming
    Panasonic UB-420 4k player
    HD-A35 HD DVD
    Oppo BD-103D for hirez audio
    Technics SL-D2 TT, Grado Gold Cartridge
    JVC DLA-RS2000/NX7 projector
    Silver Ticket 120" acoustically transparent screen
    Berkline 090 electric recliners with Aura Bass Shakers
  • kuntasensei
    kuntasensei Posts: 3,263
    edited September 2007
    appadv wrote: »
    Which amp are you using with the CS+? I like the powered PC+ and PB+ models but would like to know about going with a "separates" approach (amp+sub).

    I'm running the Samson 1,000w rackmount amp that SVS offered when the Plus line first came out. At the time I bought, the powered versions had not yet hit the market. Currently, I'm running 500w to the SVS and 500w to a Buttkicker LFE under my couch.

    That said, I would have jumped on a powered version had it been offered at the time. But in my case, it worked out eventually because I had the extra channel on the amp for the Buttkicker later down the road. As far as whether there is an advantage to going the CS route, I don't know that I'd say so. The amps that SVS are using work great, there are plenty of adjustments available to tweakers, and they've set the limiting, etc. based on the sub's design.
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen
  • beardog03
    beardog03 Posts: 5,550
    edited September 2007
    Skipping through the thread, I gotta say...I hear the SB12 is a good "musical" sub..

    can`t wait to get my paws on one to see for myself..

    I really want a smaller musical sub for my 2 ch rig...

    The octagonal shaped one (forgot name) that I saw when I picked up my pb10 was supposed to be a great musical sub...I also think it was an 8 ", not sure though
    Cary SLP-98L F1 DC Pre Amp (Jag Blue)
    Parasound HCA-3500
    Cary Audio V12 amp (Jag Red)
    Polk Audio Xm Reciever (Autographed by THE MAN Himself) :cool:
    Magnum Dynalab MD-102 Analog Tuna
    Jolida JD-100 CDP
    Polk Audio LSi9 Speaks (ebony)
    SVS PC-Ultra Sub
    AQ Bedrock Speaker Cables (Bi-Wired)
    MIT Shotgun S1 I/C`s
    AQ Black Thunder Sub Cables
    PS Audio Plus Power Cords
    Magnum Dynalab ST-2 FM Antenna
    Sanus Cherry wood Speak Stands
    Adona AV45CS3 / 3 Tier Rack (Black /Gold)


    :cool:
  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited September 2007
    appadv wrote: »
    Which amp are you using with the CS+? I like the powered PC+ and PB+ models but would like to know about going with a "separates" approach (amp+sub).

    I am using one channel of my Cinepro to run my 25-31cs+ sub. It sounds great. I am going to be getting a 25-31PC+ in the near future (as a second sub) and will let you all know if there is any sound difference between the two. (The Cinepro is about the same power as the amp in the PC+ - I would guess better quality as well, but I don't know if that will translate into better sound or not.)

    I will let you know what I find out.

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)