HD DVD/Blu-Ray..whichever

steveinaz

This high def DVD stuff is incredible, regardless of format. I was watching a demo disc at Sears the other day, it was awesome.

Question for the video gear-heads out there. If my DLP is 720p native, I'd probably want to run my high-def DVDP at 720p right? Wouldn't it be best to match resolutions?

I've got a 50" Samsung DLP that we sit about 8-9 feet from.

Kris Siegel

Well if your TV only supports up to 720P then definately setup your HD-DVD/BluRay player to play at that resolution otherwise it wouldn't be Hi-Def.

I can't think of a situation where you wouldn't want to run everything that is connected to your TV at your TV's highest resolution. If your TV supports 1080i, run it at 1080i. If it supports 720p, run it at 720p.

Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think the highest resolution the TV allows for should always be used, correct?

Edit: Actually, just did some quick research (this was one article I saw) and it looks like that 720p and 1080i deliver the same amount of information but 720p will look smoother especially in action sequences.

steveinaz

My Samsung supports 1080i, but it's native is 720p. OK, saw your edit. That's what I figured--progressive would be smoother. Thanks for the help bud.

Sami

Kris Siegel wrote: »

Edit: Actually, just did some quick research (this was one article I saw) and it looks like that 720p and 1080i deliver the same amount of information but 720p will look smoother especially in action sequences.

1080i source is much, much better if your TV is 1080p. Whether to run 720p or 1080i to 720p set depends on the scalers on both the HD player and your TV. I'd set the HD player to 1080i and let your TV do the scaling.

steveinaz

Thanks Sami, I guess I need to experiment a bit. I tried my current standard def DVDP (Denon 2910) at 1080i, I liked it better at 720p. I let the player do the progressive scanning (film mode off on tv). Colors looked a little washed-out and just didn't notice any better resolution at 1080i.

auto_pilot

Not a gear head...but I was advised from a true gear head that the best resolution is had by matching the output of the DVD player with native resolution of your TV.

Can anyone tell me how to determine the native resolution of my Plasma?

AndyGwis

Great question. I just always thought to set both as high as possible. My TV supports 1080i, and DVD player can play 1080i, so that's what I've gone with since I got my first upconverting player.

My players are HD-XA1 / HD-A2 and TVs are Samsung Plasma HPR-S4252 and Westinghouse LCD LTV-32W1, respectively. Happy to accept any settings help.

steveinaz

auto_pilot wrote: »

Not a gear head...but I was advised from a true gear head that the best resolution is had by matching the output of the DVD player with native resolution of your TV.

Can anyone tell me how to determine the native resolution of my Plasma?

If 1080i is your max output, I would imagine it's 720p native. I'm gonna try mine again tonight with the Denon set to 1080i...hmmm...

cheddar

Native resolution is the native pixel count of the screen.

1920x1080 pixels in the screen 1080p native.
1280, 1024, etc.x720 pixels in the screen 720p native.

Note that 720p TVs tend to have variable counts of pixels at the higher end which forces the TV to use non square pixels and scaling internally to get the picture to display properly. Also, there is no 1080i native plasma or lcd tvs as all digital panels and projectors are progressive native. They put an interlaced signal togther internally before displaying it.

AndyGwis

Cheddar Cheese,

So, in your opinion, should my player(s) and TV(s) be set to 720p, or left on 1080i? Is there really a noticeble difference what they are set to?

Sami

If you have upconverting DVDP, run it at your TV's native resolution. This will prevent double scaling (480i to 1080i and then back to 720p).

If you have HD-DVD or BluRay, run it at their native resolution (1080i60/1080p24 for the material, some scale it to 1080p60 and output it that way). This way your TV will do the downscaling. Since most plasmas are, like cheddar mentioned, not squared pixels due to non-720p pixel count, I believe the TV will know better how to scale for its native resolution.

As always, try it out and see what happens.

cheddar

Also, I have found that there is a lot of variability in the quality of the internal scalers in HDTVs, with the general trend in putting cheap scalers in most sets. All HDTVs have to upconvert (or downconvert) non-native signals to the native progressive pixel count of the panel or projector. And they generally will do a poor job compared to more expensive and specialized chips in players. That's why upconverting dvd players are so effective. They bypass these poor internal scalers producing a much better picture. I'd lean toward not using the scaling in the TV if possible. Feed it a native signal so it doesn't have a chance to produce bad artifacts in the picture, unless you have the rare set that does a better job.

AndyGwis

Just to confirm, you suggest setting players to 720p for those of us using upconverting / HD sources with 720p panel tvs. That way, my TV's potentially inferior scalers won't jack it up.

Got it, thanks.

cheddar

Yep, I even went as far as taking my HDTV's outboard box with all the scalers, tuners, etc. out of the loop. I was lucky that my HDTV had the option with the outboard box. But the change was spectacular with my 1080p blu-rays. It only accepts a 1080p signal in this configuration, but everything, color, sharpness, contrast, black levels, were instantly improved with great detail and quality across the board. The internal scaler in my old sharp gx6u sucked...

Edit: I should add that the TV's electronics were only downscaling 1080p to a 1080i signal and then upconverting it back to the native 1080p of the panel (remember all those silly 1080p but really only 1080i TVs they used to sell?). Changing resolutions from 480p to 1080i (and back up to 1080p) in my set was horrible. My blu-ray player upscaler for dvds does a much more seamless and better job going from 480p to full 1080p. If you know of a TV that does a good job of upconverting 480 resolutions, I'd love to hear about it. But most sets I've seen look all fuzzy, jagged, and snowy. To me, that alone speaks to the poor quality of the internal scalers in most sets.

AndyGwis

Okay, just did some research and my Sammy plasma is 1024 by 768. Now I'm really confused. Oh well, looks good to me set to 1080i. Maybe have to visit the manual tonight.

My westy is claiming 1366 by 768.

gonzalr

i would think setting it to 1080i would produce better resolution and let the TV downscale to 720p. also, most plasmas native highest resolution is 1080i, only newer model are 1080p.

cheddar

I should have added that many 720p sets are also variable on the lower end pixel count as well. But any of these 720p sets will optimize their display for 720p input. It's just which scalers you think do a better job, the ones in your player or the ones in your TV. There were other things I was bypassing in my setup in addition to resolution (color processors, black level adjustments, etc.) so maybe the change for me was more dramatic than most. But it did make me very skeptical of the electronic voodoo it takes to make all the varying signals we feed our TVs these days acceptable looking at native output. I really would like all sets to have a simple bypass setting so that you can eliminate all the conversion tricks when feeding the TVs a good, high quality HD signal. I think only the more expensive modern sets have settings that allow untouched 1080p passthrough from HD players.

auto_pilot

steveinaz wrote: »

If 1080i is your max output, I would imagine it's 720p native. I'm gonna try mine again tonight with the Denon set to 1080i...hmmm...

Cool...post your results to this thread.

I'd be interested in knowing what your results will be.

brijenjas

Sami wrote: »

If you have upconverting DVDP, run it at your TV's native resolution. This will prevent double scaling (480i to 1080i and then back to 720p).

If you have HD-DVD or BluRay, run it at their native resolution (1080i60/1080p24 for the material, some scale it to 1080p60 and output it that way). This way your TV will do the downscaling. Since most plasmas are, like cheddar mentioned, not squared pixels due to non-720p pixel count, I believe the TV will know better how to scale for its native resolution.

My TV is 720p native.
I do as Sami said above with Bluray I set output at 1080i.

For standard DVDs I set output at 720p.

These are the settings that work best for me.

Try yours on the different settings and see which YOU like best.

I would not go lower than your tvs native resolution though.

steveinaz

auto_pilot wrote: »

Cool...post your results to this thread.

I'd be interested in knowing what your results will be.

Same result as before, at 720p native the picture just looks better, richer. But, keep in mind I did not recalibrate the TV. I think the Denon does a better job at progressive scanning than the TV. Bottom line, the best combo for me is having the Denon output 720p via HDMI to the Samsung's native resolution of 720p.

Sami

steveinaz wrote: »

Same result as before, at 720p native the picture just looks better, richer. But, keep in mind I did not recalibrate the TV. I think the Denon does a better job at progressive scanning than the TV. Bottom line, the best combo for me is having the Denon output 720p via HDMI to the Samsung's native resolution of 720p.

Absolutely. The reason I explained in my earlier post. If you set it to anything else you scale the picture twice instead of once.

If you output 720p from your Denon this will happen:

DVD 480i -> Denon scales to 720p -> TV (no scaling) -> screen

If you however put it to 1080i this will happen:

DVD 480i -> Denon scales to 1080i -> TV scales to 720p -> screen

As the picture is first converted to look good in 1080i, which means adding and guessing new pixels, and then downscaling it to 720p which means removing extra pixels it is no wonder it will look much worse than the option #1 where you have only one scaling.


With HD it's a bit different though as they are 1080i60 (or 1080p24, but either way it doesn't require scaling, only interlacing so no pixels are added by algorithms).

HD player 1080i -> TV scales to 720p
HD player scales to 720p -> TV (no scaling) -> display

No matter which scaler is better, the one in your TV or the one in your HD player, it's not going to be that much difference as it is with double scaling (and on double scaling both scalers are used).

BIZILL

steveinaz wrote: »

Bottom line, the best combo for me is having the Denon output 720p via HDMI to the Samsung's native resolution of 720p.

that's it. everyone's mileage may vary. just try different settings. conventional wisdom/logic does not always apply.

Disc Jockey

I played around with this quite a bit when I got my Oppo and it was no contest. Letting the dvd upscale to the native resolution of the tv was much better than letting the tv do it. As mentioned before, ymmv.

cheddar

Sami wrote: »

No matter which scaler is better, the one in your TV or the one in your HD player, it's not going to be that much difference as it is with double scaling (and on double scaling both scalers are used).

Of course you forgot the obvious other one step option. DVD players output 480p -> TV scales once to 720p. So it does matter, in the end, which scaler is better.

Sami

cheddar wrote: »

Of course you forgot the obvious other one step option. DVD players output 480p -> TV scales once to 720p. So it does matter, in the end, which scaler is better.

If it is upconverting player designed to upscale I'd probably just let it do it. If it's regular 480i player, or progressive 480p, you don't have a choice.

Either way, no matter which scaler is better, the end result is almost guaranteed to be better than letting both of them scale.

The best solution is to buy/rent HD only and output at 1080.

cheddar

Sami wrote: »

The best solution is to buy/rent HD only and output at 1080.

Well, let's just say that processing down from too much information is always better than processing up from too little...;)

Bamadude

cheddar wrote: »

Well, let's just say that processing down from too much information is always better than processing up from too little...;)

I have a 1366x768 plasma (Panasonic TH-50PH9UK). It's weird that plasma manufactures picked a resolution that is native to nothing, so everything must be scaled at least once. I've switched back and forth between 720p and 1080i and really can't tell much of a difference although I usually end up going with 1080i. I think it's the thought of the scaler making up 48 extra lines from thin air that pushes me away from 720p. In the end the picture is absolutely stunning (regardless of resolution) with a good high def signal so I'm happy anyway.

bamadude

cheddar

Bamadude wrote: »

I have a 1366x768 plasma (Panasonic TH-50PH9UK). It's weird that plasma manufactures picked a resolution that is native to nothing, so everything must be scaled at least once. I've switched back and forth between 720p and 1080i and really can't tell much of a difference although I usually end up going with 1080i. I think it's the thought of the scaler making up 48 extra lines from thin air that pushes me away from 720p. In the end the picture is absolutely stunning (regardless of resolution) with a good high def signal so I'm happy anyway.

bamadude

It is curious how loose the standards were for the early flat panel televisions. You actually have one of the more common plasma resolutions for 720p HDTVs. Just be happy you don't have one of the 1024x1024 sets...:D.