Carver Amazing Platinum VS SDA's

RuSsMaN

No, Rodney is taller.

ben62670

Well I took my meds, and sat down with my good old Franken Polk's. I have bass in spades. I was going to start my passive XO implementation, but they sound to good to mess with at the moment, even with my sub standard optical sources. I am 50 feet away from them as I type, and they just sound so clear. This does not mean I lost interest, just appreciating what I have.

avguytx

I found the pictures my buddy sent me of his Amazings. I just need to talk to him and find out which ones they are. How do you know which they are i.e. Mark IV's, etc? These have the 4-30" ribbons...that's for sure.

Ok. Read back into the posts some. The dual 30" ribbons per channel make them the original versions, correct? So is the single 60" ribbon version the more desirable of the group?

Jstas

Uhh, if you get them and you go to clean them and feel you must use a vacuum cleaner, use an anti-static vacuum cleaner to clean the grille cloth and DON'T get anywhere near the ribbons! If they are piano black, the finish is acrylic and can be sanded and repaired just like fiberglas and with stuff from an auto-parts store. Take the drivers out if you refinish the speakers. I was told you can wet-sand scratches out with progressively finer sandpapers and then polish it to a shine again with polishing compound. Waxing with a regular old pure carnauba wax will keep them nice a pretty. If they have gouges, clear acrylic filler in the gouge, sand, polish and wax and you won't know it's there. That's beauty of acrylic. If they are the medium oak finish, they will require much more work to repair/restore.

As far as how they sound vs. the SDAs, that's tough. The SDAs are formidable in their own right but I have never heard a speaker so effortless as the Amazing. What I mean by that is that most people take the Amazings and throw kilowatts of power at them and they sound spectacular. However, until I obtain better amplification for them, mine are driven by a tiny 2 channel Rotel pushing out maybe 200 watts per channel at the impedance level of the Amazings. Yes, not the kind of power they need but it will suffice for now. However, that's way down near the minimum amount of power needed to drive the speakers. Yet even at that low power level, they will positively sing. They just don't get nearly as loud as say 1000 watts per channel.

The only SDAs that will sound good with a rinky-dink amount of power IMO is the 2B's and believe me, I know from experience. Mine are being powered by a little Adcom GFA-535 MkII and I wouldn't really trust it with anything much bigger. The big SDAs I have heard needed big power to rival the Amazings even at the low power I'm running my Amazings at. Now the 2B's have it all over the Amazings at low power. They will have more impact and less issues with things like low end extension, distortion and driving the amp into clipping. But put some power behind the Amazings, at least 500 watts per channel, and they will quickly outpace the 2Bs.

Now I've heard the Amazings on BobMcG's Hafler amps and Mr. Grand's Carvers and even my Rotel. I have yet to hear them on tubes. I've also heard the SDAs in my own home, at amulford's on some serious power, at BobMcG's on the same Hafler power and at Zero's on some digital Sony power. Plus the demos at Polk HQ. They sound spectacular but IMO, the only rig that came close to the Amazings was BobMcG's SDAs on the Hafler power and the Polk HQ setup which I think was on Conrrad-Johnson power, I can't remember. Everything else was pretty close but not quite there.

Those Amazings live up to their name and they have a visual impact like very few other speakers do. They are, actually, quite forgiving in room placement and will tend to sound good in most any environment. Of course, the more effort you put into that environment, the better your results will be. However, the SDAs can be finicky and do require some breathing room. The SDAs aren't as susceptible to moisture where as a humidity level of 70% can cause condensation to form on the ribbons and if you drive them while they are covered in water, they will rip themselves apart.

So there are trade-offs and each speaker has it's strong suit. You are good with either one but if you are on a limited budget and want to foray into serious high-end, the Carvers are the way to go. If you have cubic dollars and can afford to drop some money on a set of big SDAs and amplifiers big enough to power a small village then you could go either way and be totally happy.

I would highly recommend sitting your **** in front of a pair of Amazings at one point in your life. I was screwed from the start because the first Amazings I heard were George Grand's and they spoiled me. personally though, I would take either speaker. The Amazings just work out better for me right now.

Jstas

ben62670 wrote: »

The problem I see is that the Carvers
most likely need to be open on both sides of the backs for the dipole thingy.

The manual for the Amazings says that they can be placed almost right up against a wall. I think minimum distance was 5-7 inches? I'll have to look. You just have to put sound treatment behind them to minimize the backwave because the backwave has enough pressure when reflected off the wall to cause distortion in the ribbon tweeter. It can be something as simple as hanging drapes in front of the wall or mounting acoustic foam to the wall behind the speakers. That's why I said that they can be forgiving in their placement.

skipf

While I haven't by any means heard all of the high end speakers available and have heard none that cost more than $10,000, I've never heard a speaker that sounded better than a properly driven set of ALS Plats. Another nice thing about them is that the woofers are still available new. I replaced all eight of mine when I bought them. They ran me $380 shipped for all eight.

treitz3

avguytx wrote:

The dual 30" ribbons per channel make them the original versions, correct?

Yes sir.

avguytx wrote:

So is the single 60" ribbon version the more desirable of the group?

Generally speaking, yes. Some swear by the Original's and some swear by the Plat's. Personally, I prefer the 60.

Jstas wrote:

So there are trade-offs and each speaker has it's strong suit.

Unfortunately, yes. I guess that adds to part of the fun of this awesome hobby.:D

ohskigod

George Grand wrote: »

The speakers that LOU is crazy about? I THINK his first taste of both pair, the Amazing's AND the 9's, were in Casa Grand.

certainly so, Mr Grands' got Plats and 9's, and so do I. great minds think alike, what can I tell ya

Tha Amazings are a very unique speaker on so many levels. When there set up right, they are delightful, when there not, it can be godawful.

they are VERY sensitive to power, placement, source, listening environment, recording, the effing planet alignments, you name it!!!! George doesnt call his system "The Truth" for nothing.

George's Plats are on the money, that Demo at his house many moons ago openned my eyes to what I was looking for in an audio system. While I have gotten my Plats to sound very good and rewarding, I just couldnt seem to get them at the level they semed to be at george's, and as I've said, I've narrowed it down to my listening area as the chief culprit.

also on that fateful day at george's, I laid ears for the first time on my current favorite speaker, the AR9's. While I favored the Plats at George's, I favored the 9's in my basement. My demo of the 9's at Troy's renewed my interest in owning them (since those exact speakers are the ones I bought). I spent ALOT of time with them at Polkfest 06

ben62670

I am going to hear them today. They a spanish owner, and I do fairly well will spanish accents, but it was the wife who was not into HiFi. I will try to get there tonight.
Thanks for all the post Ben

ben62670

Well I went and looked at them today. List of equipment is necessary before review
Pre Adcom GTP-600 yuck
DBX acoustic expander yuck
OLD DAT I don't know
Old crap flat monster speaker wire 5 lbs per 1000' and oxidized to hell
rca's that looked like they were pulled from the trunk of a car in a junkyard also oxidized
Adcom GFA-555II good but not great.
The only listening impression I will give is the vocals and piano sounded extremely well integrated seeing the single driver from 100hz+
After speaking to a fellow Polkie on the phone It has been concluded that there is some sort of woofer issue. None of the bass I have read about every where. Sound stage sucked donkey even playing with toe.

I am dissapointed in todays session, but this doesn't turn me off from Carver! Just this pair.
Ben

skipf

Did you remove the cover and look at the woofer surrounds? Just about every pair of Plat's I've seen has bad surrounds. Foam doesn't hold up well for 20-25 years. As I mentioned earlier, replacement woofers are available. If the ribbons are good, and you can pick the Plats up for around $500, you will be in good shape value wise. When I replaced the woofers in mine, I went to a heavier guage wire too. The original wiring is about 22 ga. I replaced it with 14 ga. While mine are still breaking in, the bass is incredible. Ribbons are the key. Replacement 60" ribbons are $700 ea., repairing a 60" ribbon is $400 and 8 replacement woofers are $380.

reeltrouble1

Perhaps you would like to share where the plethora of Amazings for 500 are.

RT1

TroyD

If you are looking at the original Amazings.....the shortcoming there is that the list of amps that are capable of running them *properly* are few and expensive. The Plat's are signifigantly easier to drive.

Plats, AR9 or SDA?

I would go, for my purposes, in that order, depending on the flavor of SDA. The SRS series and the AR9's....too close to call. Slight edge to the SDA's though. I've owned all three and STILL own the SDA's.

BDT

avguytx

Troy, (or others) what are the Carver Amazings "Silver Edition" with the 3-12" woofers and single 48" ribbon per cabinet? Where do they fall into the mix at?

treitz3

RT1, I think Skip was saying that if you had the speakers that were auditioned, you could get them for 500 smackers [vs 800], and to him, this would be reasonable. This particular pair is not a good set. Water and moisture damage, not to mention salt in the mix.

With 500 into them and replacing all of the woofers, providing the ribbon was good on each speaker, it would be a good purchase for the end result of sound.

If the ribbon was shot, different story. With this particular pair the ribbon is shot.

reeltrouble1

OH, ok, thanks, that makes much more sense.

Well, after some thought I am going with the Plats as my favorite right now, the SDA has a wider stage than the AR9 and the effect. The AR9 has remarkable depth, punch and heigth. Toss-up between those two, I would love to own all three sets along with some advantegarde horns.

RT1

TroyD

avguytx wrote: »

Troy, (or others) what are the Carver Amazings "Silver Edition" with the 3-12" woofers and single 48" ribbon per cabinet? Where do they fall into the mix at?

I've not personally heard them.....I have had a few conversations with El Grande on the subject and according to him, a few db in the bass department but that's about it.

A pair of Silvers is on my short list of things that I want.


BDT

Shizelbs

I've had the pleasure of owning both SDAs (SRS 2s) and Amazing Platinums.

For me, once I heard the Amazings and had them in my house, I could not get rid of the SDAs fast enough. Maybe I never found the right synergy of electronics behind the SDAs, but for whatever reason, I could tell I was going to get a lot more enjoyment out of the Amazings. I'll admit that the SDAs could have benefitted from an upgraded tweeter. Nonetheless, I felt that their shortcomings were not going to be cured by a tweet upgrade alone. My biggest beef with the SDAs is their ridiculously small sweetspot for listening. I've never regretted selling the SDAs to this day.

To me, the Amazings are superior to the SDA in every way, except that of the SDAs enormous soundstage. I actually prefer the Amazing's soundstage to that of the SDA. I always felt like the SDAs soundstage was more of a gimmick than a true contribution to the musical experience. On some discs, like DSOTM, it certainly added to the experience. I felt like the music was a dream and I was flying through it, but on too many others the occaisonal guitar riff that seemed like it was 30 feet away, or the constant bass drum kicks trapped in the corner of my room just made it to distracting and odd. It weaked the experience.

Anyways, I could go on and on, but for me, the Amazing Plats are clearly the superior speaker.

Texas42

I've owned the Amazing Silvers (3 12" woofers per side with a 48" ribbon) the Amazing Platinums (4 12"s per side with a 60" ribbon) and the AL-III+. For most, there will be little difference between the silver and platinum except for the soundstage height (due to the length of the ribbon) and output capability of the 4 12"s of the platinum vs the silver. That said, under 'normal' listening conditions and seated they were both fantastic and I preferred both to the AL-III which is still a fine speaker in its own right. Just my .02

ben62670

I am passing on the deal. They had no bass so I am assuming the woofers are bad, and my custom SDA are the bomb. I would like to hear some nice ones. If they don't sell I will give them a low ball just to get the ribbons maybe.

George Grand

This Texas 42 fellow has only a couple posts, but his ears hear what mine hear.

A lot of you guys remember my drinking buddy from the small meet I had here a few years ago, the 75+ year old, Mr. Ted Jackson, from a couple doors down. His stepson Harold came over to hear the Plats not long after I got them in '91. He tormented the **** out of me about selling them to him until I finally got him out of my hair by finding him a pair of Silvers. When he lived here in Jersey with them, he had a really bad room. Not much amazement. He hauled them off to Arizona when he struck out to find himself. He found him$$elf BIG TIME out there. I dropped in when I was on the road out there about ten years ago. Even dropped a plate of his own moms home cooking in his lap (For those two acts alone, the speakers and the cooking, he should've got me a hooker). Totally different speaker in a different room, and he was using a lone DH-500 to drive them. I sold him the Hafler too. They ALMOST give up virtually nothing to the Plat's, except for a little presence, and the low end doesn't suck the air out of your chest as much as the Plats.

When I was ordering the speakers from Carver, I ALMOST bought the Silvers. It actually came into my head when I was on the phone, that if I liked the Silvers, I'd spend the rest of my life wondering what the big ones would've sounded like in my room. Screw that. I ordered the right ones.

F1nut

Shizelbs wrote: »

I've had the pleasure of owning both SDAs (SRS 2s) and Amazing Platinums.

For me, once I heard the Amazings and had them in my house, I could not get rid of the SDAs fast enough. Maybe I never found the right synergy of electronics behind the SDAs, but for whatever reason, I could tell I was going to get a lot more enjoyment out of the Amazings. I'll admit that the SDAs could have benefitted from an upgraded tweeter. Nonetheless, I felt that their shortcomings were not going to be cured by a tweet upgrade alone. My biggest beef with the SDAs is their ridiculously small sweetspot for listening. I've never regretted selling the SDAs to this day.

To me, the Amazings are superior to the SDA in every way, except that of the SDAs enormous soundstage. I actually prefer the Amazing's soundstage to that of the SDA. I always felt like the SDAs soundstage was more of a gimmick than a true contribution to the musical experience. On some discs, like DSOTM, it certainly added to the experience. I felt like the music was a dream and I was flying through it, but on too many others the occaisonal guitar riff that seemed like it was 30 feet away, or the constant bass drum kicks trapped in the corner of my room just made it to distracting and odd. It weaked the experience.

Anyways, I could go on and on, but for me, the Amazing Plats are clearly the superior speaker.

You bring up an interesting point that needs addressing, the sweet spot. There is only one sweet spot with any pair of stereo speakers. Why folks think that the sweet spot is any larger then dead center is beyond me because it's not. If you are off axis, the sound is off axis, period.

Another point I'd like to address is the soundstage. When properly set up and with some nice gear, the SDA's do not present an unnatural soundstage, quite the opposite. When I close my eyes and listen at a live show or in my living room, the soundstage is very close in nature.

I should mention that I first heard the Plat's at George's and I'll never forget it. Everyone should own a pair at least once in their life.

Having said that, I've owned a number of speakers over the years, including SDA SRS 2.3TL's and Carver Platinum's. I enjoyed the Plat's, but I still own the SDA's.

Shizelbs

F1nut wrote: »

You bring up an interesting point that needs addressing, the sweet spot. There is only one sweet spot with any pair of stereo speakers. Why folks think that the sweet spot is any larger then dead center is beyond me because it's not. If you are off axis, the sound is off axis, period.

Another point I'd like to address is the soundstage. When properly set up and with some nice gear, the SDA's do not present an unnatural soundstage, quite the opposite. When I close my eyes and listen at a live show or in my living room, the soundstage is very close in nature.

I should mention that I first heard the Plat's at George's and I'll never forget it. Everyone should own a pair at least once in their life.

Having said that, I've owned a number of speakers over the years, including SDA SRS 2.3TL's and Carver Platinum's. I enjoyed the Plat's, but I still own the SDA's.

I understand your point about the sweet spot. I guess my feelings were with the SDAs' sweetspot, once you are out of it, the presentation changes dramatically. When you leave the ALS sweet spot, its more or less the same experience. I've never fussed about sitting an inch off the perfect spot with the ALS, whereas I've moved my chair/couch so that I could listen to the SDAs within an inch of where I wanted to be exactly.

I'll also admit that I could have experimented more with placement of the SDAs and room treatments to help get better results. However, I didn't, and nor have I done so with the Amazings. Perhaps the only real conclusion I can draw then is that the Amazings are easier to setup to achieve satisfactory results. I am quite certain too that I never used the SDAs in an ideal room. Just like any other speaker, I am sure they would benefit from a properly designed room.

Shizelbs

ben62670 wrote: »

I am passing on the deal. They had no bass so I am assuming the woofers are bad, and my custom SDA are the bomb. I would like to hear some nice ones. If they don't sell I will give them a low ball just to get the ribbons maybe.

The bass performance, I've found to be anyways, very particular to their placement. Changing their position from the back wall as little as an inch can have a huge influence on the amount of bass you hear.

If you have them positioned properly and amplified appropriately they've got more bass than you'll need.

heiney9

Shizelbs wrote: »

I understand your point about the sweet spot. I guess my feelings were with the SDAs' sweetspot, once you are out of it, the presentation changes dramatically. When you leave the ALS sweet spot, its more or less the same experience. I've never fussed about sitting an inch off the perfect spot with the ALS, whereas I've moved my chair/couch so that I could listen to the SDAs within an inch of where I wanted to be exactly.

I'll also admit that I could have experimented more with placement of the SDAs and room treatments to help get better results. However, I didn't, and nor have I done so with the Amazings. Perhaps the only real conclusion I can draw then is that the Amazings are easier to setup to achieve satisfactory results. I am quite certain too that I never used the SDAs in an ideal room. Just like any other speaker, I am sure they would benefit from a properly designed room.

Just to put it out there......the newer SDA's, last 2 generations, are much less picky about set-up and off axis is still very acceptable, better than most typical speakers. Of course to get the creme de la creme of SDA majik you should be in the proper sweetspot. My 1C's sound better off axis than the LSi 9's and RTA-11's.

Someday I would love to own a pair of Amazings. I rememebr our local hi-fi store had them when they were new and I had several demo's but never like they should have been set-up as are most showrooms shortcomings. I'm looking forward to hearing them at PF '07.

H9

ben62670

I agree with you H9. I don't have to be in dead center to enjoy the sweet spot. I can actually be next to the wall to the side of the room and still enjoy the sound stage.

Robd

I can't help but to make this my first post, I have only heard 1 set of sda's and can say they are stunning, but years ago I did have multiple auditions to hear the Platinum editions, at Stereo Advantage in Buffalo,(1000.00 on sale in black or oak) they were powered with silver 9t monoblocks, and tube preamp/tube cd player... Never have forgotten what a sound, and any speaker that can make your pant legs move from tight clean accurate bass,(not a external subwoofer) I can only imagine what they could do with todays sacd/dvd formats, and the right power...lots of power on the low end.
I never have forgave myself for not Buying a new set back then, but since I have had the option on three occasions, and have decline all three due to some advice I recieved, the ribbons in time may need to be revamped, and there is a place in NY that is able but it was a very expensive (with shipping was over $1000.00), so depending on how much use they have recieved that could be a heartache where as the polks unscrew a driver bolt in a new one if needed in your own home (no shipping/ no damage in shipping), unfortunately my ears said buy a set for music, my wallet said could be expensive, and my wife said if you could have to repair a set no way.
Hope this helps.

dexfx69

I might recommend you pay about $900 for ones in great condition.

reeltrouble1

If there are a plethora of Platinums in great condition around for 9 franklins by all means please let us in on there hiding place.

RT1

skipf

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

If there are a plethora of Platinums in great condition around for 9 franklins by all means please let us in on there hiding place.

RT1

Yeah, I would like to fine another pair for that price too. Got mine for $500, but the surrounds on ALL of the woofers were non-existant. Discovered a bubble and very high volumn level buzz in one of the ribbons, so I have a new ribbon on order from the fine fellow that helped develop and assembled the ribbons for Carver when they were still in business. When that arrives I will send the damaged one to him for repair. Final cost with one spare ribbon for the future = $1980. Still a bargan in my opinion for Platinums reconditioned to original specs and performance. The problem now is finding a pair in any condition. Once someone gets hold of a pair, they don't usually hit the market again. The only thing in favor of Plat hunters is their size. Most better halves don't appreciate a set of speakers being the major focal point of the room decor. There is just no way to make them unobtrusive, not that I would want too, but I still get dirty looks from my wife when she passes them.