RTI12 on one Outlaw?

Systems

Before I go back and start pulling out cables. I run the bottoms of my rti12's on Outlaw monoblocks and the tops off they Onkyo amp. Anyone tried to just run the RTI12's not bitmapped on just 1 outlaw? Think it would work? 200 watts driving the whole speaker?

XJRGUY

I haven't run one RTI12 on "one outlaw" but I have tried running my RTI12's on Sony TA-N9000ES amps in BTL mode @ 200 Watts per channel and it sounded great.

Now I have the RTI12's biamped with separate amps, but it sounded fine with just running it normally with 200 WPC.

XJRGUY

cfrizz

So long as you run 2 Outlaws (one for each speaker) you will do fine. They will push the 12's just fine by themselves.

And you get to get rid of some excess wires!

engtaz

+1 cfrizz

thejck

would there an advantage to driving the rti12's low on the outlaw and highs on the onkyo compared to the whole thing on the outlaw...?

cfrizz

This has always been debated. I personally feel that if you have 200wpc pushing your speakers biamping is unecessary. The separate amp has more than enough power to run the whole speaker.

To me, it's simply another way of making something simple more complicated.

thejck

the rti12's recommend a total of upto 500 watts of power does that come into play when you are only using a 200watt amp. excuse any rookie questions as I am new to this game.

Systems

thejck wrote: »

the rti12's recommend a total of upto 500 watts of power does that come into play when you are only using a 200watt amp. excuse any rookie questions as I am new to this game.

Ya that’s exactly what I was thinking to. I actually do a kind of odd configuration right now:

I set my fronts to +10 vol on the Onkyo.

I RCA cable first to the Onkyo which has audio in and out with a volume dial.

I turn that amp down almost half way (for the top). This matches the volume of my speakers such as the center.

I then RCA cable to the Oulaws from that amp to the outlaws which then drive the lowers at the full +10.

This seems to be the only way I can get those bottom speakers to actually drive pretty hard even if I turn it up.

Leads me to beleive that I should leave it this way and not go with just the Oultlaws.

I cant switch the top to the Onkyo or I cant adjust the bottoms up to +10 or the tops stay at +10 and that’s just to much on the top.

But still, I want to move that Onkyo (100 WATTS) to my outside speakers when my HT basement is done.

Looks like Ill have to buy a new amp.

Ron Temple

200 watts will probably drive the 12s into the 110-112db area without clipping...500watts would take it to max output, another 3-4db, but you'd be deaf. I'm just guessing on the numbers, could be a few more db, maybe a few less. Generally, to drive your speakers to very loud levels, you won't need more than 30-60watts. The added headroom and current of a heftier amp provides adds better driver control and overall SQ improvement...a couple of hundred SS watts should be enough to get there.

sjt

I was bi-amping my rti12's with my Denon 4306 on the tops and Outlaw monoblocks on the bottom and now just using 1 Outlaw monoblock per speaker and I think it sounds better

Systems

sjt wrote: »

I was bi-amping my rti12's with my Denon 4306 on the tops and Outlaw monoblocks on the bottom and now just using 1 Outlaw monoblock per speaker and I think it sounds better

Thats some good info! I think Ill try it now.

thejck

do any of you use the rti12's for just stereo music listening. how do you like it..can it hit the low without the need for a seperate sub??

Systems

thejck wrote: »

do any of you use the rti12's for just stereo music listening. how do you like it..can it hit the low without the need for a seperate sub??

I regularly use them in 2.1. In fact, I mostly listen to music now in 2.1. One day my sub wasn’t on and it just didn’t sound right. But maybe it’s because I’ve always had a sub, at least for the past 10 years. so I guess I’m mixed on that.

thejck

what do you have your crossover set too. and what do you power them with?

VR3

Bi-amping is a funny situation...

Basically all you did with running your receiver and the amp in biamping was nothing.

Since the receiver was still doing a 20-20hz signal for power, while it was only pushing a tweeter, it was doing enough work to push everything since it wasnt high passed closer to around the tweeter crossover frequency.

And actually...

RTi12 is 90db 1w/1m...

So lets say he sits 2 meters back - thats 87 db...

1w/2m = 87
2w - 90
4w - 93
8w - 96
16w - 99
32w - 102
64w - 105
128w - 108
256w - 111

And for each additional meter... you can subtract 3db from your max output... so 3 m = 108, 4m = 105... etc etc etc

Systems

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

Bi-amping is a funny situation...

Basically all you did with running your receiver and the amp in biamping was nothing.

Since the receiver was still doing a 20-20hz signal for power, while it was only pushing a tweeter, it was doing enough work to push everything since it wasnt high passed closer to around the tweeter crossover frequency.

And actually...

RTi12 is 90db 1w/1m...

So lets say he sits 2 meters back - thats 87 db...

1w/2m = 87
2w - 90
4w - 93
8w - 96
16w - 99
32w - 102
64w - 105
128w - 108
256w - 111

And for each additional meter... you can subtract 3db from your max output... so 3 m = 108, 4m = 105... etc etc etc

Do the numbers change when I sy I "run it on the Onkyo amp", Im talking about the receiver but my seperate Onkyo amp (Onkyo M-282)? Would it change up the logic?

By what Im reading from you, I should just run them on the Outlaw.

But I think I know what you are saying and it makes sence (as to why I asked). It seems like if you biamp these you would want an amp at high pass on the top and low on the bottom.

VR3

Well lets say... for the sake of saying -- the top post are the mids and tweet... and they are crossed at 120hz...

And on their own... the mids and tweets take 200 watts... and the lows take 300... combined to make 500...

If you had a way to highpass one amp at 80/100hz... and low pass the other at 200hz or something like that and kind of isolate what each one is doing... then you would have more of a reason to biamp...

You would be better off just having one large amp per speaker with what you are doing now. I definitely wouldnt use the amps in your receiver though.

At 200 watts, you would need 400 to really get an increase in volume.

HOWEVER! With more power, even at the same volume it will sound better. You are not trying as hard to reproduce the same volume, therefore it should in theory sound better...

Thats my logic... its been reported many times over again that more power brings out more soundstaging and depth at the same volume as a lower rated amp...

ben62670

A little correction on SPL and distance. If your speakers are 90 DB, and you go to 2 meters yes they theoretically drop to 87 DB, but it is every doubling of distance that loses 3 DB. So at 4 meters you would have 84 DB 8 meters 81 DB... These figures are developed in a near field/far field open situation. In an enclosed area DB drop is less of a concern unless you have high vaulted ceilings in a large open area.

Also a side note on bi amping. Even with no XO on the amp if the speakers are using only 120, and up the amp is not working to reproduce the 120, and below. If you crank your stereo to +10, and have no load on the amp then it will not get hot seeing there is no load to draw the available current. The amp is being fed the signal, but the speakers are not drawing the load.

VR3

Thanks for the correction! I'm a moron! lol

ben62670

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

Thanks for the correction! I'm a moron! lol

No its late, and when are you getting that AMP!

VR3

Supposed to ship out TOMMOROW/TODAY... I will give Klaus a call to confirm

New interconnects to finish it off arrive Wednesday!