How to use time alignments to help tune SR6500's?

monologuist

I just picked up a Clarion DXZ775usb head unit which has time alignment features. I was wondering if anyone could suggest either a source of information on how to use time alignment to tune my system, or give a little summary of what steps to take. The manual of the unit does not really shed much light on how to tune, just how to use the feature itself.

Thanks!

also...this unit has 3 different ways of setting up the crossovers.
1."Normal"-front pair and rear pair both get highpassed at same frequency (either 50/80/125), sub gets lowpassed separately. This is too bad, since there is little flexibility in the frequencies and slopes.
2."3-way" - designed for system with only front components and sub, splitting crossover to tweeters/woofers/subwoofer. Fully adjustable frequencies and 6/12/18 db slopes
3."2-way" - designed for system with components up front and rear deck speakers, no sub, splits crossovers between these three (six) speakers.

Unfortunately there is no option for a crossover split to components running up front, rear decks, AND subwoofer. Not sure why. Which should I choose? (I have the SR-6500's up front running 2-way passive, a pair of Boston rear fills, and the SR124 sub in the hatch. I was thinking one thing I could do is run the 3-way system, and pretend the "Tweeter" crossover is for both driver/tweeter of the SR-6500's, pertend the "Woofer" crossover are the rear deck speakers isntead of the component drivers, and then run the subwoofer crossover. If I do this, what should I start out using as cutoff frequencies and slopes between the sr-6500's, the rear fills (mostly want just a little mid help), and SR124?

[Deleted User]

You might be better off pushing more power to your front stage (I'm assuming you have a 4 channel amp?) and running the rear speakers off of headunit power. As for time alignment, you really have to use you ear for tuning. Time alignment is to correct for different path lengths between speakers which isn't measurable (with standard equipment).You just have to play with it.

1996blackmax

I use to start by measuring the distance of all speakers (and convert to milliseconds-now this is done for you when you plug in th e #'s))....this will give you a good starting point, but as Josh said you will have to play with it to get it right.

Greg Peters

While not familiar with Clarion's method of time alignment, should be pretty straightforward.

Listen to your front stage and experience the near-side bias with no time alignment, then swing over and place your ears in the middle of the vehicle to the point where center image is evident (I use female vocals for this). Enter the T/A menu on the HU and while listening to the same track, gradually increase the electronic delay for the near side speaker until the image "centers up" in front of you (to optimize for the driver's seat listening position). It should be pretty obvious when you have the right amount of T/A applied.

MacLeod

The best way to do it is with a spoken voice and preferably a male. If you dont have a CD with an announcer on it the easiest way is to tune in an AM talk radio station. Since this will be a mono signal, the level will be equal on both speakers.

While listening to the announcer, add delay to the left channel until he centers up best.

Im not real big into measuring the distance because if you do all that and convert it to ms and then add that amount of delay, itll put the image right in front of you - which makes it quite narrow or at least it always does for me. Your center image should be in the middle of the car, basically right under the rear view mirror. That way you have equal distance to the left most part of he stage and right most part and itll be as wide as possible.

1996blackmax

That is why I use measuirng as a starting point

monologuist

MY Clarion's TA requires you to enter the distance between you and the speaker's voice coil (center), in cm. The manual is quite vague, and I am assuming that the receiver will automatically calculate and adjust the amount of delay needed going to each speaker, but I am not sure if you are supposed to assume that the left front speaker is not delayed at all and all the rest are, or the right front speaker is not delayed and the rest are. Or maybe all of them are delayed to some degree or other. In fact, it isn't even clear if you are supposed to leave the front left speaker distance at zero, and apply only the difference between the other distances from the left speaker distance....I understand this is how some TA programs work. For now, I will assume all the speakers are delayed, so I just entered in the actual distances from each speaker, with the starting point being my left ear for the left speakers and my right ear for the right speakers. Am I to assume that this method will not be very precise, and that it should only be a starting point?

In any case, for now, the imaging has improved in terms of being centered. But I fear that it has created some new problems in terms of phasing. There is a defeat feature that lets you A-B out TA settings with the default settings (no TA at all), and the default setting seems to sound louder and fuller, although the imaging is worse. The Xovers allow phase switching on each channel, but I can't tell whether the normal or reverse phases sound better; the differences are too subtle.

For now, I have the 6500's normal phase, highpassed at 63hz/-18db, the Boston rear decks highpassed at 250hz/-18db and lowpassed at 630hz/-18db and reverse phase, the subwoofer lowpassed at 80hz/-18db normal phase. But there are definitely some holes and phase dropouts here and there. Do you guys think these crossover settings seem decent?

Jack from Indo

Read McLeods post twice. He nailed it.

You can (and sounds like your head unit will do it automatically), calculate the TD based upon distance, but this is not necessarily what is going to sound best, because, like McLeod says, it might put the center image in front of your face, instead of the middle of the dash. My ideal TD, for me, in my current rig, is .45 ms less than the mathematical calculations says it should be, for example.

I reckon it is nearly impossible to set this by ear, unless you use a monotone vocal track, like a radio show pod cast or something, of very high quality, like McLeod said.

Why?

Because the whole idea is to get the things in your music that are SUPPOSED to be centered, (those tracks in the music that were panned 50% left and 50% right in the studio) actually centered relative to your listening position.

As a general rule, such tracks would include the vocal tracks, but not always when it comes to music, esp. the various types of alternative music being recorded today and others. So, that being the case, how the hell do you know for sure what is supposed to be centered and what is not?

Thusly:

A well recorded vocal podcast, or monologue, preferably male and as monotoned and as boring as possible, is almost certainly paned dead center, so it makes the ideal reference to set TD. It is also a 100 times easier to listen to, because its all you are listening to. You don't have to try and pick out the center panned tracks you are trying to adjust from the rest of the music. Just keep twisting the TD dial till you get it centered. You will actually hear the guy walk from the left side of your dash to the right as you turn the dial, which is very cool, makes you feel like a real sound engineer, and is tre cool to dick around with.

Good luck

MacLeod

Thats kinda a crappy TA feature then. Doesnt seem like there is much you can do with it.

As for the crossover setttings, they seem fine but Id try a different slope. Odd slopes seem to not mesh as well as even slopes. Try a 24 db if possible.

Plus try disconnecting the rear speakers altogether. The more speakers you have the more possibilites for phasing issues you have.