Incremental Upgrade - T773?

RVJII
RVJII Posts: 167
edited July 2007 in Electronics
Ok, so I was just bitten by the upgrade bug and I've never been truly happy with my Onkyo TX-NR900. Anyway, I am looking to upgrade but not go nuts quite yet. I was looking around and really like the Parasound Halo A52 and the C2 but I have a common wall right now and also don't want to drop quite that much cash.

During my search I stopped in a place that carried NAD and for the heck of it tried out the T773 receiver. I have to admit that it sounded very nice and was a really beefy unit. I was really tempted to pull the trigger but resisted the urge until I could get some input / advice here.

Current speakers: Mains: RTi12, Center: CSi5, Rear: FXi3

I have to admit that I haven't heard the NAD on my rig but I've got to believe that it will be a significant upgrade over the Onkyo. Also the NAD allows you to use the two extra channels (its 7.1) to bi amp the mains, which I'd do.

I've also read some stuff about NAD quality issues but I've also read some very good reviews so I'm really torn. However, I've noticed that people on this forum seem to be a little less "emotional" and more fact based in their evaluations so I'd appreciate some insight here.

I've also looked at getting a couple of Outlaw M2200's and bi amping with the Onkyo but some have suggested that is not a good idea. Part of me thinks that it is just time to cut ties with Onkyo and move up a tier or two.

Any advice or reasons why this is a stupid idea would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
Post edited by RVJII on
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Comments

  • dkg999
    dkg999 Posts: 5,647
    edited July 2007
    The NAD receivers have great sound and have high current reserves, which makes their lower wpc ratings a little deceiving. There have been some quality issues with past NAD gear, but those issues seem to be minimal with their newer gear. If you're not listening at real high db levels, then the NAD should drive your speakers pretty well. The RTi12's can take a lot of power, and are pretty power hungry, so a separate amplifier for them might be on your short-term upgrade path.
    DKG999
    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC
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  • Polkitup2
    Polkitup2 Posts: 1,623
    edited July 2007
    New NAD receivers coming soon.... Wait till then...
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,094
    edited July 2007
    I've had my T773 for over 2 years now. It's more than enough juice to drive your speakers. NAD's "music first" philosophy is very evident in the way the unit performs musically. Not know for bells & whistles just ballsy performance. As far as reliability issues go...not in my book. Buy with confidence if you like the way the T773 performs.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    edited July 2007
    Wait until you can afford separates, Outlaw, Newcastle, Anthem, B&K etc. You waste $$$ doing another upgrade step........you already have your short term system with most of the processing you need.
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited July 2007
    If you decide to go with separates, you could get separate amplification now since you do have preouts. Get a 5 channel amp & be done with it. Then when you are ready, you can get a prepro.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • RVJII
    RVJII Posts: 167
    edited July 2007
    Really great input and I'm feeling more confident about the NAD now. Now I'm just torn on which way to go. I found the T773 for $1100 new (new ones coming out soon as mentioned) but I also found a good deal on some Parasound equipment: Halo A52: $1700 and a 5250 for $2000.

    If I got rid of the Onkyo I was also going to buy a Cambridge Azur 640H ($1300) as I like the music server capability. (I go uncompressed here)

    Hence my dilema since the price differential is negated by my getting the 640H as well.

    Gah!!! I hate this hobby...too many toys and never enough money. (Plus I just found out my buddy who I was talking to about this ordered the NAD today...LOL)

    Any more thoughts suggestions are appreciated. When I bought the Onkyo I pulled the trigger a little quick and lived to regret it. This time I want to take my time.
    A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited July 2007
    Dennis Gardner wrote: »
    Wait until you can afford separates, Outlaw, Newcastle, Anthem, B&K etc. You waste $$$ doing another upgrade step........you already have your short term system with most of the processing you need.

    NAD sells seperates.. and are quite good too. ;)
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited July 2007
    just a thought.. but Outlaw audio just recently dropped the price of their top of the line 990 pre amp. you would of course need an amp to hook up to it.. but if you buy from Outlaw directly... they usually knock some $ off the combo price of the 990 pre amp and one of their multi channel amps. it's all about getting a good deal

    https://www.outlawaudio.com/mofcart/combos.html
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • RVJII
    RVJII Posts: 167
    edited July 2007
    Wow danger boy...I had never really looked at the Outlaw Pre/Pro and multi-channel amps. I guess that I had gotten locked in on the M-Blocks for some reason. (probably didn't want to admit that I may have made a mistake on the Onkyo.)

    That 990 combined with either the 7500 or the 7700 looks really sweet. How do they stack up against the Parasound amps. Comparable? Different sound?

    Why the price drop on the 990? Something new coming out?

    Forgive the growing list of questions...just don't want to be kicking myself 6 months from now.
    A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited July 2007
    well the nice thing about separates is that you can combine the best of whatever amp or pre amp you like. Say you go with a B&K Reference 50 pre amp... but their matching amps may be out of your price range.. well you could instead go with a Parsound, Outlaw or any other multi channel amp. that way you're not locked into one brand.

    Of course.. some people swear they get better results keeping the pre/pro and amp the same brand.

    I think Outlaw dropped the price to sell more pre amps of course.. and yes they are working on the next generation 990 pre amp.

    The Outlaw 990 has been criticized for not having HDMI inputs or outputs. they instead went the route of DVI.. not by mistake.. when the 990 was in development, HDMI wasn't finalized yet.. so it was really a toss up at that time whether to go with the proven standard at the time (DVI) or take a chance and go with HDMI.. well.. it was a big gamble to go with HDMI at the time of course.. so DVI won. By the time the 990 hit the streets, the HDMI battle was settled and that's where we are today.

    Keep in mind that this is no "perfect" AVR or perfect pre amp or amp.. each have their own characteristics in performance and sound.

    The tough thing is being able to hear any of these in person.. since some are only sold online.. and not carried in local stores. Alot of online retailers realize this and often times will offer a 30 money back on their items if not satisfied. that gives you time to set it up in your home under your listening conditions and give it a work out before plunking down your hard earned money.

    I decided for the price i paid for the Outlaw Audio 990 pre amp.. that it was one I was pleased enough to keep. Sure there are better pre amps out there.. but for a grand it would be tough to beat.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • RVJII
    RVJII Posts: 167
    edited July 2007
    You guys really have me rethinking my plan. The T773 is absolutely still in the mix but the separate amp path is tempting. If I went that route I wouldn't want to limit myself because of current budget so I'd be tempted to keep the Onkyo for now, using it only as a pre/pro. If I went that route I'd consider adding the 7200, 7500, or 7700 (not sure if balance makes a difference or not).

    I really like my Polk's and don't see myself changing them anytime soon. I also doubt that I'd upgrade to 7 channels, at least until I get a new house with a dedicated theater room in the basement. (at which point I'd probably add a SVS sub as well) Part of the reason that I'd think about 7 channels is to bi-amp the mains. Am I just being silly though...is this overkill on my part? Also, is brightness, etc a more function of the processing or the amp section? The reason is that I've always felt that my Onkyo was a bit bright and also lacking in the deep, tight bass department.

    On the NAD, are there benifits to going with an AVR over separates?
    A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,217
    edited July 2007
    RVJII wrote: »
    Wow danger boy...I had never really looked at the Outlaw Pre/Pro and multi-channel amps. I guess that I had gotten locked in on the M-Blocks for some reason. (probably didn't want to admit that I may have made a mistake on the Onkyo.)

    That 990 combined with either the 7500 or the 7700 looks really sweet. How do they stack up against the Parasound amps. Comparable? Different sound?

    Why the price drop on the 990? Something new coming out?

    Forgive the growing list of questions...just don't want to be kicking myself 6 months from now.

    Outlaw is great for HT applications, but IMO they are not the most musical products. The Parasound and NAD products will do straight music better and still get the HT done as well. Just IMO.

    Perhaps the 990 with the Parasound or NAD amps.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited July 2007
    RVJII wrote: »
    On the NAD, are there benifits to going with an AVR over separates?


    benefits of an AVR

    lower cost over separates
    less amont of $ to be spent on cables/wires
    usually have the latest features sooner than separates
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • RVJII
    RVJII Posts: 167
    edited July 2007
    Yeah...I guess that I should have stated that I am about 50/50 music / HT.
    A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
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  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited July 2007
    I think NAD would go really well with your RTi's. I am not sure what your budget is - but if you are thinking about NAD - this would be a killer setup for you for under 2 grand. (from an authorized dealer no less....)

    Michael

    Edit - note the pair (new T163 with Refurb T973) is actually $1,948 not $1,999 as listed....
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
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  • RVJII
    RVJII Posts: 167
    edited July 2007
    I'm dying here now...lol

    I do like that NAD setup plus I've been over checking out the Outlaw amps (7200, 7500, and 7700) as well.

    My budget is right around $2500, which is why I was looking at the T773 plus Azur 640H combo. Although the more I think about it the more I am tempted to go separates if for no other reason than minimizing future costs due to technology changes.

    Appreciate all of the input as it is very helpful.
    A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...
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