MSNBC on SACD/DVD-A

Systems

www.msnbc.com/news/810537.asp

danger boy

thanks meestercleef.. good reading.

F1nut

Yes, a good read and I agree with all of it. I've said it before and I'll say it again.....those new Stones SACD's are awesome!

Strong Bad

Yes, excellant read!

I may have to think about an all in one player, but not one of the budget players. Gots to be quality playback!

jdelan

Little heavy on the SACD and light on the DVD-A wouldnt you say?

hoosier21

What is the going price for a better that average combo player?

Frank Z

Hoosier21,
The MSRP for my Pioneer Elite DV-47a is $1200, but my cost was $850. It is a progressive scan player that handles SACD, DVD-A, DVD-V, CD-R, MP3, etc.

You can check the spec's here;

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/Pioneer/CDA/HomeProducts/HomeProductDetails/0,1422,21653,00.html

hoosier21

Looks like they have gone down in price, around 700.00 now.

begbie

jdelan,

Agreed, seems a bias on Sacd and knows little about Dvd-A.

F1nut

begbie & jdelan,

I think you guys missed the point. He wasn't getting into which format is better, just that the hybrid SACD's are the most likely format to gain wide spead acceptance since they can be played on all the millions of current cd players out there, even in cars with noticeable improvement in sound quality. Anybody got a DVD-A player in their car? John Q Public isn't into multiple formats, they want simple and cheap. DVD will be the standard for movies and SACD will be the standard for music.

begbie

Simple and cheap eh???
John Q. public is into mp3; where he can rip a cd for his friends and family; download for free off the internet and buy used cd's that are marked way down. Joe sixpack isn't the conosieur of hi-res. 2 channel music.

Personally, I still think he pushed the sacd a little too far and failed to mention the the millions of dvd owners can take advantage of the dolbly digital multi track/ and even dts tracks on dvd-a and will be wowed. I think JohnQ public will take a liking to multi tracks then fork over a few extra dollars for hi-res stereo he probably won't hear a difference.

However any positive multi-channel news is welcome and in this case one format can only help out the other. Personally I'm rooting for both formats to co-exist succesfully.

Panasonic is pushing for dvd-a in your car stereo.

danger boy

I too would like to see a multi format player.. i'm sure within the next few years most all players will be able to play both SACD and DVD-A. both have pluses and minuses. My experience has been that SACD is releasing more and better more popular music than DVD-a is. I think DVD-a is going for the extreme nitch market. With most of their releases aimed towards classical and instrumental music.

I also think that those people, me included who are into multi channel music.. are just at the forefront of what's to come in the near future. I sure hope so anyway. How awesome would it be to have a SACD player in your car with 5.1 surround? some current people have two channel systems that would cost much more than an averaged priced 5.1 channel system would.

What is this i'm hearing about XRCD? now what is that all about?

begbie

Danger boy- .
With Dvd-audio having all their releases in 5.1 -Eagles, Queen, Metallica , Rem, Alanis Morisette, Crowded House, Queensryche,
The Doors, Linkin Park, etc. etc.
It's hardly a niche market for classical music lovers .

danger boy

i'm talking TRUE dvd audio.. not DTS wanna be's here.
but you also have to remember that of those you mention.. very few of them are the artists "biggest" hits.. they are usually an obscure release. Case in point... the Doobie Brothers.. The Captian and Me. or KD Lang.. Invinceable summer.
BUt i'm also finding that where i buy my DVD-a.. at Best Buy.. they carry many more classical releases than anything. so it's been a tough search for someplace locally that carries the other releases.
been lucky enough so far to get the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, and Barenaked Ladies.

scottvamp

failed to mention the the millions of dvd owners can take advantage of the dolbly digital multi track/ and even dts tracks on dvd-a and will be wowed.

Begbie - I could not agree with you more. I do buy DVD-A's simply because of the 5.1 DD mixes. I am not ready to give up my flagship dvd player and buy a dvda just yet. People so not seem to mention the extra $100 min. you have to spend on the 5 rca runs and a reciever that has the preouts for it. I mean we are talking about the most advanced music software so why would you use cheap cables.
I was blown away by the 5.1 dd sound. Like night and day to the average cd. How much better is DVDA? If it is WAY "better" than the DD quality - I would be "speechless". Thank god they are starting put out some better newer music. Linkin Park Re: is going to be unbelieveable. If it was not for the DD remix's I would be in the market right now. I think they figured this out. I do not understand why they did not go the DD/DTS route anyway. Are "they" trying to say that a high quality DVD player is for less qualified to a DVDA player? Creating as entirely new format is bull$hit. But when I do upgrade to a HD-DVD-A player I will have some DVDA's in my collection. For now I am more than pleased with the DD/DTS sound quality of DVDA's without the insane upgrade.

begbie

dangerboy
What do you mean about "true dvd-audio" ? Those titles I mentioned are all in dvd-audio (plus are great albums) and having a DD/Dts tracks are only a bonus for those who haven't got a dvd-a player yet. Having those alternate tracks will only help the success of dvd-a.
To each their own on the opinion of the artist's "biggest" hits. Some gems can be found on these obscure albums.

F1nut

From Stereophile, Oct. 2002

"For example, market research clearly shows that unless a medium's content is portable (can be easily moved from one format or device to another), it will not catch on. To be able to make compilation CD-Rs for the car or MP3s for your iPod-perfectly legal activities-are significant consumer benefits. The SACD camp has shown awareness of this fact by focusing its recent marketing efforts on hybrid discs, where the CD layer can be copied, yet DVD-A has eliminated portabilitly.
A benefit to consumers of current media is that what you see is what you get. With DVD-A, however, this is no longer true. Some titles have DTS, some don't. Some have hi-rez two-channel mixes, some have fold-downs. Some have hi-rez multichannel mixes, some do not. All titles are suppose to have Dolby Digital audio data for backward compatibility with DVD-A players, but some do not. Some have added-value content, some do not. You don't know what you've bought until you play the disc at home."
" While a third of poll respondents claimed that they had bought SACDs, just 13% said that they had purchased a DVD-A disc. This relative lack of market penetration is perhaps one reason why the hardware companies behind DVD-A held a series of seminars in August to promote the medium both to the press and to record-label executives. Jon Iverson and I attended the seminars-you can find Jon's blow-by-blow account at www. stereophile.com/shownews.cgi?1412-and we both came away bothered by an asymmetry in how the medium was being marketed."

And SACD is ahead by a length........

F1nut

Originally posted by danger boy

What is this i'm hearing about XRCD? now what is that all about?

It stands for eXtended Resolution Compact Disc, just a normal cd that is remastered using JVC's proprietarty method. The result is a near SACD quality cd that plays on any cd player. Sound great!

danger boy

Originally posted by begbie
dangerboy
What do you mean about "true dvd-audio" ? Those titles I mentioned are all in dvd-audio (plus are great albums) and having a DD/Dts tracks are only a bonus for those who haven't got a dvd-a player yet. Having those alternate tracks will only help the success of dvd-a.
To each their own on the opinion of the artist's "biggest" hits. Some gems can be found on these obscure albums.

from Toshiba web site:
24-Bit/192kHz PCM Audio Compatibility delivers warmer, more natural-sounding audio from many types of discs. This 'total immersion' experience can include text (song lyrics), still pictures (slide show), and moving visuals (music video).



what i mean by "true dvd-audio" is a disc that utilitzes the full bandwith of 24bits, 192kHz. if you check out some of the DTS ones.. you'll find that they are 20bit, 5.1 channel. not what i call true DVD-audio. My Eagles - Hell Freezes Over CD is a DTS 20 bit 5.1 channel mix. It requires a DTS decoder to play. It will not play in my car cd. whereby a "true dvd-audio" release would be 24bit, 96 or 192kHz. a bit more bits... resulting in wide dynamic range and cleaner sound. that's all im saying. not all DTS or DVD-audio discs are the same. Of course the DVD-a will not play in my car either.. but that's a whole other story. I guess for those of us who do like the the highest mix in a 5.1 surround format.. we'll just have to wait till the masses catch up.

Which format will win and who will lose... maybe XRCD will beat out both. since it doesn't seem like you need any special player to listen to them.. just your same old CD player from 1981 will do.

danger boy

you have to admit both SACD and DVD-audio are generating a lot of press coverage in the current issuses of most audio mags right now. so someone must be listening to them.

F1nut

Originally posted by danger boy




Which format will win and who will lose... maybe XRCD will beat out both. since it doesn't seem like you need any special player to listen to them.. just your same old CD player from 1981 will do.

That's the advantage of the hybrid SACD's also, they play with added sonic benefit on any cd player.

begbie

dangerboy, I wasn't referring to dts cd's alone. Many dvd-a titles will ALSO contain a DD/Dts tracks. THanks for the technical explanation anyway for those who didn't know.


F1nut, that little writeup you've pasted is just one of many battles and polls to go on between dvd-a and sacd.
Besides, Stereophile magazine caters to two channel lovers !!!! No wonder they're going to be biased !!!:rolleyes:

for me still and like many others, I'm rooting for both formats to succeed.

F1nut

begbie,

Since both formats offer 2 channel as well as multi-channel, I don't see any validity to your conclusion that Stereophile is biased. :rolleyes:

I don't know which format, if either, will survive, but by all accounts SACD is doing better at this point in time.

begbie

A magazine that's not biased ? Advertising dollars can certainly sway a publisher's opinion.

After all this time, I guess SACD better start releasing more 5.1 channels than their 2 channel - if not than all the John Q Publics, Joe Budweisers, and H.Simpsons will get wowed from all the 5.1 Dvd-A albums !

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Sacd and I think some two channel recordings are better then any 5.1 track whether it's from dvd-a or sacd !

Right now I see things on the horizon as a format choice than a format war. More and more dvd players (no cd players?) are coming out to play both formats.