War with Iraq?

cruiser3

"The issue, to me, is that he is actively pursuing and close to achieving nuclear capability"

.....and about 12 other Countries........why dont we invade them too?

phuz

I liked this article, and I'm curious what some of you think.

http://www.viceland.com/issues/v9n7/htdocs/you.php

cruiser3

phuz

Pretty much on target. Albeit a little radical in some respects.

phuz

Originally posted by cruiser3
phuz

Pretty much on target. Albeit a little radical in some respects.

Are you a speed reader? Damn. heh

Yes a bit radical. I don't agree with everything, but I liked it in general.

I guess to answer the original question, no... I don't think we should go to war with Iraq. If we do, we are going to really piss off the Arab's and many other countries... and I'm really not sure that's something we want to do.

Micah Cohen

More American nutcases.

>> It seems World War III is about to go down. <<

No it doesn't. Relax.

>> America has randomly chosen Iraq as the center of terrorism even though weapons inspectors and embargos left Iraq broke and powerless years ago. <<

No, and no. Iraq is anything but broke and powerless. Saddam is making billions from the embargo and from oil sales to you and me. And he actively supports terrorism, no question, and would, given the chance, gleefully wipe out any democracy that he can. Nothing random about it.

>> They claim the reason is that Iraq is capable of eventually having deadly arms, but they ignore the fact that every other anti-Western country is equally capable. <<

No one's ignoring anything. Anything "anti-western," we should snuff them out. Remember, we are the top of the food chain on this planet. France and Germany should be first on our list.

>> Opponents to the invasion claim annihilating such helpless people for no good reason is going to set the entire Arab world into an anti-American rage that will be more like the apocalypse than simply another Desert Storm. <<

Puh-leeze. Like they're not already in an "anti-American rage." Did anyone notice how fast CNN pulled the footage of palestinians and saudi citizens dancing in the streets with joy right after the second twin tower collapsed? DANCING IN THE STREET BECAUSE THEY KILLED AMERICANS. Helpless people? They seem pretty capable to me -- they're all filled with hate and own guns and are ready, in a very good uncivilized way, to die for their rich dictator's and nutty mullah's causes.

Then they talk to Scott Ritter? He was an Iraqi weapons inspector back in 1998, and all he could talk about was how dangerous and horrible Saddam was! Now, he's been bought off by Saddam in the intervening 4 years and he's an anti-American wacko. He's as much a traitor as that John Lynde character, who should be shot or hung in public, on the mall in DC. Do some research on Scott Ritter and you'll see that anything he says is suspect. He's a liar and a dissembler. :mad:

>> If we do, we are going to really piss off the Arab's <<

And so? When are they not pissed off anyway? When are they not warring amongst themselves, all the "princes," "kings," "emirs," "mullahs," "warlords," and "tribal leaders"? Time to join us, guys, in the 21st Century. Democracy would really piss them off, huh?

MC

phuz

Micah I'm not here for a debate.

I'm not nearly educated enough on the topic to debate, I was just presenting a different side of the story and stating my opinion.

Micah Cohen

We're actually having a nice little discussion here. I like it. We're being civil and enjoying each other's opinions.

I don't mean to "challenge" anyone to a "debate." (There is no debate; I'm right.)

I think it's especially important for someone who says "I'm not nearly educated enough on the topic" to understand the spin put on coverage of this stuff. Unfortunately, it's mostly an un-American spin, and we often don't even realize it. Always seek the unbiased truth.

It pays to learn about this stuff, and to explore it, because it's all going to impact all of our lives. It's too easy for us to be removed from it here in America, for us to be lazy... CNN removed footage of MUSLIMS CHEERING IN THE STREETS OF GAZA AND SAUDI ARABIA WHEN THE TOWERS WERE HIT, they stopped playing the footage BECAUSE THEY WERE AFRAID THEY'D LOSE THEIR LUCRATIVE MIDDLE EASTERN BROADCAST RIGHTS! No fooling. It pays to know this stuff.

We should be forced to watch NOT the footage of the towers coming down every day, but the footage of arabs in the street dancing with joy at the death of Americans. We should see this every day! It would INSPIRE us, I'm sure.

MC

HBombToo

This is an excellent discussion and I'm glad to see we have so many Patriots.

I would like to raise a question regarding nuclear capabilities though. Are not the delivery systems as important as the actual bomb itself? or maybe, should inspectors focus on delivery systems as well as nuclear, chemical and biological production?

Hell if Iraq is still using the Scud then IMO the only Nation we should be concerned with is Israel in the region... is this a false interpretation because I don't view myself as a professional political analyst either.

TroyD

I agree HBomb.....the issues I have are that, IMO, that once the capability is established, the delivery system is MUCH easier to figure out. Second, even if they could only deliver it as far as Irael, they will. My point is that we need to eliminate that threat, not only for our interests but for the rest of the world.

Like it or not, we are THE superpower.

BDT

phuz

"and we often don't even realize it. Always seek the unbiased truth. "

I agree completely, which is why I threw that link out there - because it works exactly the same way for the American media and govt. - so many people just accept it and become sheeple and follow the herd.

As far as Arabs dancing in the street cherring at American loss, do you know why they hate us so much? I don't, but I'm curious.....

Disclaimer: The views and questions that I express in this thread are not necessarily what I believe. I just like playing devils advocate sparking good conversation.

RuSsMaN

We're golly green giants walking the earth my friends.....

Eff Sadam, he needs to know the regulators are in town, and we plan on cleaning house, and I mean CLEANING HOUSE.

Good read guys, thanks.

Cheers,
Russ

Frank Z

Regarding Mr. Ritter,
His bank account is fatter to the tune of $400,000.00, and now he says "Weapons, What Weapons?" Can anyone guess where the money came from?

Micah Cohen

True. He's become a stooge of the Iraqis. Sad, really. But, money obviously counts.

Why do they hate us? Because they are under-educated, kept poor and hungry by their leaders (who siphon all the "aid" into their own Swiss bank accounts). They are taught, by powermad theologians, that we are godless and criminal, mostly to deflect their attention away from the crimes of their leaders. Because we are free and affluent (even the bum on the street here is more affluent than most of the people in the middle east) and they are not.

Because they misread their religious texts to support their own powerhungry agendas. (There are some in this country who do the same thing, just to be fair. But at least we usually have common sense about not allowing those people to have any more "power" than a time slot on "Trinity Broadcasting Network.") Because they believe ancient liables passed down thru the ages about the criminality of freedom, western morality and both Judaism & christianity.

But mostly because they have nothing much else to do with their useless, overcrowded, hungry, empty-headed and misdirected lives. That's why they hate us.

Why do they hate us? Because of "The Anna Nicole Show." Because of game shows. Because of MTV. Because of palm pilots and the stock market. Because of cars and bikinis and the ability to travel state to state without having to "show papers." Because of mashed potatoes and Corn Flakes and steak, rare. Because of sushi restaurants on every corner; because of churches on every other corner. They hate us because we can get away without having to pray 6 times a day. And soap operas. They hate us for those, too. They hate us because in their blinkered, 17th century views, we are too modern.

But, we shouldn't care about why they hate us. We should simply force them into the 21st century kicking and screaming. And if it takes a mighty big cattle prod to do it, so be it.

MC

Systems

Polk could create a new "Knights Templars" forum, in between off-subject & music & movies

www.newadvent.org/cathen/14493a.htm[/url]

To avoid descending into decadence & laxity of faith, only true Polksters would be allowed to serve.;)

cruiser3

......"Why do they hate us? Because they are under-educated, kept poor and hungry by their leaders (who siphon all the "aid" into their own Swiss bank accounts). They are taught, by powermad theologians, that we are godless and criminal, mostly to deflect their attention away from the crimes of their leaders....."

Thats very true, but I fear we are headed for bigger and deadlier confrontations. The world is a finite place and we now have the capacity to blow it up. I have no doubts whatsoever that 'we' will destroy it....I just really hate to see it in my lifetime....after all, I like my new Excursion and my Plasama TV.....

cruiser3

Just one more thought before I retire this thread.....a quote from Shakesspeare I think appropriate here:

.Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war

in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor,

for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword.

It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind...


And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood

boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no

need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry,

infused with fear and blinded with patriotism, will offer up all of

their rights unto the leader, and gladly so.

How do I know?

For this is what I have done.

And I am Caesar."

nascarmann

Because they believe ancient liables passed down thru the ages about the criminality of freedom, western morality and both Judaism & christianity.

One can talk forever and express very little. One can talk little, and be heard forever?

If this was easy...... :rolleyes:

joe logston

im ready for electic cars, the hell with giving them money for oil, if they didnt have that money, all they would have is a camels and a swords.

trubluluc

Or we could do what Brazil did when faced with an oil shortage and, unlike the USA, limited financial resources. Make fuel out of alchohol.
They manufacture fuel out of sugar cane processing left overs, in other words, out of what would be thrown away.
We could do the same thing here, with corn stalks etc. The farmers of America could produce enough to completely wean us off of crude oil for auto fuel.

Course we'd have to convince some of the richest people in the country (all friends of Bush), to get out of the oil business.....
yeah sure, that will happen.

-Luc

pensacola

My advice for Bush would be:

1. Get support from Congress, if possible.
2. Get support from the UN, if possible.
3. Do the right thing--regardless of how #1 & #2 above turn out.

We now have the strongest leader in the Oval Office since
Ronald Reagan. We finally have a president that is not laughed
at by other world leaders.

9-11-01 should have taught us to strike FIRST, and not wait
until attacked, if nothing else. But that is exactly what is being
debated in Congress.
I hope the president stands firm, and upholds the Constitution.

What we DO know is that Iraq will have a nuclear weapon within
5 years.
What we WILL know (if nothing is done to stop them) is that it
will be aimed at us.

"We will not tire, we will not falter and we will not fail." — G. W. Bush

Micah Cohen

>> "We finally have a president that is not laughed at by other world leaders." <<

I don't know. He can't pronounce "nuclear."

MC

F1nut

He doesn't have to......he just has to press a button.

hoosier21

I like Bush, but damn did you see the "We have an old saying..

Jesus did he look like a dumbass or what?

nascarmann

He is a dumbass.......

trubluluc

The idiot son of an idiot.

-Luc

jcaut

Man, you guys are tough on the prez!

I like him better than the previous idiot, but Micah's right: That "noocular" thing drives me nuts.

Bush has had a pretty tough go at it so far and I think he's handled it remarkably well. He's smarter than people give him credit for. He just comes across otherwise sometimes. Happens to me alot, too.:rolleyes:

Everybody seen this already?

nascarmann

I like him better than the previous idiot

Idiot.....if getting caught **** around and "lying" to cover it up is an idiot...OK. But, if you are talking about "intelligence", you don't really think that do you....

jcaut

No, my use of that term had nothing to do with intelligence.

High intelligence is of course a good thing, but when it comes right down to it I'm not sure it has much to do with being able to lead.

I guess what I'm getting at is: There are more important qualifications for a president than being super-intelligent.

Jason

F1nut

I look at it this way....."Slick Willy" was just that, like a used car sleaze ball salesman. Bush reminds me of a down to earth, honest person capable of making common errors, but I trust him.

nascarmann

There are more important qualifications for a president than being super-intelligent.

Sure.....like a tax cut that 90% of it went to benefit 1%.... Did it really do a damn thing for you and your brothers and sisters or your mother and father? NOT MINE

Or virtually giving what little virgin timber the U.S. (that spells us, you and me) have to the Willamette's and Weyerhaeuser's and such....

Or maybe striping and mining and drilling the Alaskan wilderness....yeah, I will ask my Congressman to help get that one moving faster.....

And his great economic plan has thing just were we all want it....RIGHT:rolleyes: