I'll be damned...power cords really do make a difference!

treitz3

mhardy6647, some people don't care why. I am one of those folks. Does it really matter why, just so long as the end result [I.E. the sound] is improved? That's the only thing that matters to me.

Open your mind and your ears will thank you. Then you can thank me later.

No, I'm not selling anything and Doro, thank you. Nice post.

Madmax, you had the same observations I had as well.

reeltrouble1

cstpeter,

Congrats on your new tweak I really like my power cables and what they add to my rigs.

RT1

madmax

treitz3 wrote: »

Madmax, you had the same observations I had as well.

For me, I went years with some pretty good equipment and found I could change cables with no change in sound. That particular equipment was very tolerant of whatever the cables variances were. What I have now is not. Power cables as well as interconnects and wires all give it different character (neither good or bad, just different).
madmax

cstpeter

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

cstpeter,

Congrats on your new tweak I really like my power cables and what they add to my rigs.

RT1

Thanks RT1! this hobby is fun!

hearingimpared

WilliamM2 wrote: »

It would be, but then how do you account for other people on this site who upgraded the caps on the same speakers, and claimed to hear only improvements?

i'm not sure what where you are coming from on this one, can you please elaborate?

hearingimpared

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Maybe I should take this guys word that this device works:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/machinadynamica2/ib.html

Or these:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/shakti/hallograph.html

No I don't think you should take their word for anything unless you know them. They are not members of this club. I think a known club Polk memeber can be taken at his word.

WilliamM2

i'm not sure what where you are coming from on this one, can you please elaborate?

I remember reading you post about your upgrade not sounding good, and you thought perhaps you had "effed" them up. And the comment above"I hear a big difference, some of it really great and some of it not."

So I was assuming that you would reccommend against the upgrade, while other (including me) would reccommend the update. That's all.

heiney9

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Not really. I used to believe there were differences as well, but my own blind comparisons, and a couple cable comparisons I sat in on at a local dealer, showed me I was wrong, and so were all the other participants.

So because you heard no change, all of a sudden what you heard or didn't hear supecedes anything the rest of us heard in our own personal situation? I see how it is, you didn't hear a change so your experience is more valid. Also, I don't really care about the other people in the room. It proves nothing more than none of you were eable to discern any differences in that one particular situation in that one particluar setting. It proves nothing beyond that.

cpster, is talking about his experience in his environment with his ears using his listening habits and you are trying to tell him he's full of **** and the rest of us are too. Pretty bold!!!

H9

hearingimpared

WilliamM2 wrote: »

I remember reading you post about your upgrade not sounding good, and you thought perhaps you had "effed" them up. And the comment above"I hear a big difference, some of it really great and some of it not."

So I was assuming that you would reccommend against the upgrade, while other (including me) would reccommend the update. That's all.

No that is not true. My wife said I effed them up and that was supposed to be humorous. I posted that thread because I have no experience with an upgraded crossover and was asking for advise on some records and some CDs sounding shrill or unnaturally bright and whether this was a problem or not.

If I had to give a review right now on that crossover upgrade I would absolutely give a thumbs up. My speakers sound so much better and more natural. The post below the "effed up" one was to Sal telling him by all means to order the parts and that this issue I was having was not something to judge the upgrade by.

This is good stuff cause we keep each other honest.

madmax

heiney9 wrote: »

It proves nothing more than none of you were eable to discern any differences in that one particular situation in that one particluar setting. It proves nothing beyond that.

In an unfamiliar room, with unfamiliar equipment? Well jeesh, no wonder you couldn't tell the difference. This isn't a day and night difference... How good do you think you are?
madmax

WilliamM2

So because you heard no change, all of a sudden what you heard or didn't hear supecedes anything the rest of us heard in our own personal situation? I see how it is, you didn't hear a change so your experience is more valid.

I guess you didn't understand my post. For years, I DID hear a difference, and no one could convince me otherwise (sound familiar?). But I had never done a blind test, when I did, it made me realize my mistake, and that we can percieve things that are not there.

Have you done a blind test to confirm what you are hearing?

WilliamM2

In an unfamiliar room, with unfamiliar equipment?

Read the post. I did it on my own equipment at home, as well as a comparison at the dealer.

PolkThug

halo wrote: »

Dead Horse Here.

Agreed, however, it is marginally entertaining with the "my beliefs are better than your beliefs" stance. Gives me something to read between work and hunting for Megan Fox videos.

This thread is better: PC

This forum is split 50/50 on those who have/haven't heard a difference from a PC upgrade, according to the latest Polkie Poll.

So 50% of peoples hearing and gear sucks, and the other 50% are gullible and weak minded.

"Audio Sucks." -Doro

WilliamM2

If I had to give a review right now on that crossover upgrade I would absolutely give a thumbs up.

I hadn't read the follow up to that post yet. Glad you are happy with it now.

shack

WilliamM2 wrote: »

I Have you done a blind test to confirm what you are hearing?

Yes.

heiney9

WilliamM2 wrote: »

I guess you didn't understand my post. For years, I DID hear a difference, and no one could convince me otherwise (sound familiar?). But I had never done a blind test, when I did, it made me realize my mistake, and that we can percieve things that are not there.

Have you done a blind test to confirm what you are hearing?

Ok, so you were mistaken.................I'm not. I don't need to do a blind test to confirm my experience. The thing is, I'm not trying to tell you that your experience is wrong, but you are trying to tell us (those that hear a diff) because you were mistaken originally, we are too.

If you truely believe what you heard then stick with stock cables, etc. no harm or shame in that. But don't try to tell me I'm incorrect based on YOUR experience. I completely condone discussion on this topic, but to outright tell people their experiences are invalid because your's were originally, just doesn't make sense.

H9

WilliamM2

Ok, so you were mistaken.................I'm not. I don't need to do a blind test to confirm my experience.

The very definition of close minded.

The thing is, I'm not trying to tell you that your experience is wrong, but you are trying to tell us (those that hear a diff) because you were mistaken originally, we are too.

How do you know you're not wrong, since you refuse to properly compare the cables?

Besides, I was questioning the level change that treitz3 and Early claimed, and no blind test is needed, just a DB meter. Yet neither has tried it, or probably ever will.

WilliamM2

Yes.

Intersesting. Can you elaborate a little? Conditions? What cables?

madmax

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Read the post. I did it on my own equipment at home, as well as a comparison at the dealer.

OK, I re-read it. I didn't see you said "AT HOME" and at the dealer the first time. Given all this I dont think I need to do any blind testing.
madmax

reeltrouble1

cstpeter wrote: »

Thanks RT1! this hobby is fun!

Yep sure is, especially finding your own way on the path.

careful as the Anti Hi-Fi Audio Insurgents do try to dissuade you, as you have found trusting your own ears to tell you what is good or not is the best way to find your own nirvana. I would recommend the new book that is out Titled: This is your Brain on Music, written by a neuro surgeon it takes a look at how muscial timbre is reverberated in the brain from the time a fetus is 20 weeks old, I have read some excerpts and have it on my must read list.

I have written posts before about timbre and how an entire system creates a unique one. It is at the heart of any band, their sound, the first composers doing this began in the baroque period, writing music with timbre in mind, defining certain passages only be played by certain instruments, heck a meter of some sorts will measure an oboe and a piano playing the same pitch as identical, yet even the non-hobbiest can easily tell them apart.

Our systems are so much more than just electricity, they hold that sweet audio signal, all the parts can only degrade it in small to large ways, so change any part and you have changed the system.

RT1

heiney9

WilliamM2 wrote: »

The very definition of close minded.



How do you know your not wrong, since you refuse to properly compare the cables?

Besides, I was questioning the level change that triez and Early clamed, and no blind test is needed, just a DB meter. Yet neither has tried it, or probably ever will.

So by me swapping cables and power cords on my own equipment, in my own environment and then relaying my own personal experience.........that's being closed minded

Who says your method is the proper way to compare cables? It was for you, but that dosen't mean it is for everyone. There are people out there that just measure cables and choose based on how they measure and never listen to them, blind test or not. For those people that is the proper way. For me, I believe what my ears tell me, that's the method I use.

Why would I think I was wrong about my own personal experience . I never said you were wrong for doing things the way you did. What I did say was that you can't invalidate someone else's experiences based on your own unless the method to obtain the outcome is so ridiculous and ludacris that is has no bearing whatsoever on the situation.

shack

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Intersesting. Can you elaborate a little? Conditions? What cables?

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=198032&postcount=4

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=281777&postcount=25

WilliamM2

So by me swapping cables and power cords on my own equipment, in my own environment and then relaying my own personal experience.........that's being closed minded

Well you did say there was no need for you to do it blind. I guess bias does not affect you, as it does everyone else.

madmax

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Well you did say there was no need for you to do it blind. I guess bias does not affect you, as it does everyone else.

Bias only affects the majority of people. Some cannot spend cash on something and admit it was a waste. Some cannot look at the glitter and admit it was a waste. Some cannot admit a difference if its more than they are willing to spend. Some cannot admit there is a difference if they believe too firmly it can't sound any different. Some cannot admit there is no difference if they think there should be.

Some of us don't give a crap, just notice what we notice.
madmax

AndyGwis

I'm not sure if I have a good enough ear, the time/effort, or upgrade slowly enough to hear a difference in each little thing I tweak.

As for power cables, I'll put them in the same category as ICs and Speaker cables. I'm not 100% sure if they actually sound better. What I do know is they don't sound worse, they look better, they do add a coolness factor, and piece of mind. Nobody wants to spend thousands on speakers/components only to worry that

Same reasons I bought my power conditioner (looks, coolness, piece of mind).

treitz3

WilliamM2 wrote: »

The very definition of close minded.

I see no evidence that this gentleman is close minded, but I do see evidence of the Pot calling the kettle black.

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Besides, I was questioning the level change that treitz3 and Early claimed, and no blind test is needed, just a DB meter. Yet neither has tried it, or probably ever will.

The level of change concerning the volume was not dramatic, don't get me wrong. If I was to guess, I would say that if one had a volume knob with 100 increments, the increase was approximately two increments higher.

William, I do not have a DB meter. If somebody would like to provide me with one, I will gladly perform the test for you and post my results. I know what I heard, and I just tried it again. You know what? Three months after I got the PC upgrade, I yielded the same results?

Don't you think it's a little bit more than coincidental that EarlyB, cstpeter, madmax and I ALL had the same observations, yet we have never spoken or relayed this information to each other before.

WilliamM2 wrote: »

How do you know you're not wrong, since you refuse to properly compare the cables?

To properly test the cables is real easy, William. Have the listener sit down in the listening chair which is to be located in the sweet spot. Listen to one song. Now, swap out the PC with the upgraded PC and have another listen to that same song, moving nothing and adjusting nothing. Blindfolded or not. A good listener doesn't need a blindfold, IMO. To me, it made enough of a difference, that I could pick out the upgraded PC over the stock cord blindfolded or not one hundred times out of one hundred times. No meter necessary.

As for not being able to hear a difference on an unfamiliar rig, I must agree that it might be a challenge for some to identify differences. As for me and my experience when I auditioned the PC that I ended up purchasing, I auditioned it in a completely strange listening room, with gear that I had never heard before with the source being vinyl and then CD. The gear was a Rega integrated amp, Rega TT, Rega Apollo, and a pair of bookshelf's that at the moment is slipping from my mind. That same system is still there, and I'll be glad to do the test on that on as well.

RT1 wrote:

Our systems are so much more than just electricity, they hold that sweet audio signal, all the parts can only degrade it in small to large ways, so change any part and you have changed the system.

Honest, wise, beautiful and AMEN!

Systems

pearsall001 wrote: »

If not, your opinion is only that an opinion & not based on actual listening. The same goes for PC's, IC'c, speaker cables & the likes. Unless you actually went thru the trouble of doing a listening test then you really don't have a say in the matter, or a position that has any credibility.

Yes you are correct and I usually do not make such statements without trying something first ,but those two products defy logic.I have a very open mind when it comes to hearing differences in IC's and PC's etc ,but come on a $1000 for some fancy pieces of wood looks like a scam to me.

treitz3

madmax wrote: »

Some of us don't give a crap, just notice what we notice.

Hear! Hear!:D

WilliamM2

I see no evidence that this gentleman is close minded, but I do see evidence of the Pot calling the kettle black.

I used to believe in cables, but was willing to submit to a DBT, and failed, and I have no trouble admitting it. He believes in cables, but is unwilling to submit to a DBT, or even remotely accept he could be wrong. How am I calling the kettle black?

WilliamM2

Yes you are correct and I usually do not make such statements without trying something first ,but those two products defy logic.

Those products defy logic, and upgraded power cords don't?