I'll be damned...power cords really do make a difference!

245

Comments

  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited June 2007
    H.I., no sir. You are reading into me wrong. I didn't take it as a shot or dig. All is well. Forgive me for any undue implications.

    I just can't figure out why such simple things as this topic get so heated when the facts present themselves via one's rig. IMO, there should not be two separate camps. We are all in the same hobby and we are all trying to achieve the same goal........that being my signature, right?

    I am pleased with my purchases, and will be experimenting more based upon the positive improvements / results I have heard so far.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • Bill Ayotte
    Bill Ayotte Posts: 1,860
    edited June 2007
    Put me in the moron camp....I spent money on a Signal Cable Magic Power Cable, Digital Reference, and Video reference PC.....The Magic cable killed the nasty hum my Super junior had...
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,775
    edited June 2007
    People that try to push subjective "facts" really need to get a grip on life.

    The believers are the only ones pushing subjective "facts".

    subjective –adjective

    1. existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought
    2. relating to properties or specific conditions of the mind as distinguished from general or universal experience.
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,775
    edited June 2007
    By the way, why does it have to be one way or another? Some folks may hear better than others. Some folks have a **** system that improvements like a PC won't make a damn bit of difference. Some folks are just plain stubborn.

    It's obviously one way or the other for you, as you only list options for your belief. What about the other side of the coin, that there is no difference, and it's a placebo effect?

    I would love to hear a logcal theory as to why it made your Rega louder. Are you saying the stock power cord was incapable of delivering the massive 12watt max that the Rega draws?
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  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    edited June 2007
    Dead Horse Here.
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited June 2007
    I just dropped $1200 on a pair of speaker cables. I never want my audiophile card revoked. LOL!!! :D
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited June 2007
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    It's obviously one way or the other for you, as you only list options for your belief. What about the other side of the coin, that there is no difference, and it's a placebo effect?

    Wrong. I offered a reasons as to why one might hear things differently. Allow me to quote myself....."Some folks may hear better than others. Some folks have a **** system that improvements like a PC won't make a damn bit of difference. Some folks are just plain stubborn."

    I know what I know from experience from my rig. That's the fact, Jack. End of that story. No placebo effect, just fact.
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    I would love to hear a logcal theory as to why it made your Rega louder. Are you saying the stock power cord was incapable of delivering the massive 12watt max that the Rega draws?
    I am not qualified to answer our question here. As an ex-electromechanical engineer, I'd have to tell myself that I am full of ****. As an audiophile, I cannot concur. Things that make sense to the engineering world do not apply to audio reproduction. I cannot explain it. Nor can anybody else, to my recollection.

    The fact is that a PC did make a not only noticeable difference, but an improvement in sound. How much? Honestly, not much all the way to very discernible.

    One of my favorite motto's in this hobby is...."everything effects everything". Now there are those that say IC's don't make a difference. That's all good and well. There are those that say speaker cables don't make a difference. That's all good and well. There are those that say power cords don't make a difference. That's all good and well. Believe it or not, there are those that say CDP's don't make a difference, no matter how much you spend. That's all good and well too.

    I cannot explain why some folks hear a difference in all aspects aforementioned and why some folks do not. That's not my area of expertise. I can, however share my observations with all of you. Everything that I have mentioned or talked about in this thread, I speak of from experience.

    WiliamM2, can I ask you a question since you were so bold to make such a statement? My question is.....Can you tell me why there is a logical theory as to why the PC upgrade wouldn't make it louder than the stock cord?

    Not being a smart ****, Just wondering if you have any information?
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,775
    edited June 2007
    My question is.....Can you tell me why there is a logical theory as to why the PC upgrade wouldn't make it louder than the stock cord?

    No theory needed. Use a DB meter and measure the SPL with the old cable, don't change any settings, put in the new cable and measure again. Simple.
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited June 2007
    Anybody ever hear of a little audio company called VTL or a guy named Manley??? They just notified there customers that they found how Power Conditioners and Cords can affect the sound of their gear.

    Who would of figured........

    RT1--Hi-Fi Infidel
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited June 2007
    treitz3 wrote: »
    EarlyB had the same observations I had, right? I don't know him from adam, never talked to him, never PM'd him, never read about him saying this before. Yet, we still had the same observations.

    This just proves to me that he's got a good set of ears and he has excellent observations.


    Truer words have never been spoken.:D
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • Spacedeckman
    Spacedeckman Posts: 96
    edited June 2007
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    Early B. had the same improvement/change when upgrading the power cord on his Oppo player. The increase in volume. That really sparked a savage debate because the digital one and zeros naysayers really came out of the woodwork.

    Yeah, you mean the ignoramuses who think that 1s and 0s come out of their CD players and transports? They are wrong, it's a bit more complex, and so is the output signal....it's sinewaves...kind of like....analog audio.

    Mark
    System:

    VPI Scout/Benz Ace
    Sutherland PH2000
    Arcam CD72
    Yamaha DVD-CX1 (primarily for CD..26 lbs, all BB D/A)
    Audioprism Mantissa w/Reference PS
    Parasound HCA750 (temporary)
    Audiovector M1 Signatures
    Kimber 4TC x 2
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited June 2007
    I'm officially going back to the I don't care what the Anti HI-FI Audio Insurgents think position...it's simply not worth the discussion anymore.

    Welcome to the world of HI-FI cstpeter.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • dragon1952
    dragon1952 Posts: 4,899
    edited June 2007
    For the life of me I have never figured out how you can measure music. There are just some things that can't be measured. There is just this mindset that believes that everything that measusres the same must sound the same. There is just so much more to it than that I believe, probably even things that can't even be explained yet. I don't understand what is so hard to believe about that. There is so much in this world that is still, to this day, totally 100% unexplainable. It just boggles my mind that people actually believe that everything is so cut and dried. Things that have been believed for years are everyday being disproved or questioned now. How closed minded and arrogant some people are to believe they have all the answers based on absolute crap. After thousands of years we still can't explain why or how we got here yet we claim to know something is absolute fact based on what will someday be considered some primitive measurement process. Reminds me of "Theodoric of York: Medieval Barber" on SNL.
    2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Audioquest Diamond USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones
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  • venomclan
    venomclan Posts: 2,467
    edited June 2007
    pearsall001 wrote: »
    I just dropped $1200 on a pair of speaker cables. I never want my audiophile card revoked. LOL!!! :D

    Damn Pear, what happened to your Mapleshades?
    V
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited June 2007
    venomclan wrote: »
    Damn Pear, what happened to your Mapleshades?
    V

    Still got 'em, just trying to stir up the pot!!! No real takers yet. Come on guys, everybodies playing too damn nice for this type of discussion. Let's start getting good & nasty!!! :D
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited June 2007
    pearsall001 wrote: »
    I just dropped $1200 on a pair of speaker cables. I never want my audiophile card revoked. LOL!!! :D
    Sorry dude to keep your card you must spent atleast $1500 on speaker cables.Anything less is junk.:D
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited June 2007
    GV#27 wrote: »
    Sorry dude to keep your card you must spent atleast $1500 on speaker cables.Anything less is junk.:D

    Maybe I'll just have it suspended!!! :confused:
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,775
    edited June 2007
    For the life of me I have never figured out how you can measure music. There are just some things that can't be measured.

    That is true, however, he claimed it is louder, and that can be measured. You could either measure the sound level in the room, or measure the voltage coming off the audio outputs of the cd player.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited June 2007
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    That is true, however, he claimed it is louder, and that can be measured. You could either measure the sound level in the room, or measure the voltage coming off the audio outputs of the cd player.

    But WM2, can't you just take his word for what he says he heard? He is not the only one who says they've heard an improvement or difference. I don't think he or any of us here are trying to sell anything.

    I just changed the caps and resistors in my speaker crossovers. . .I hear a big difference, some of it really great and some of it not. I'm sure it can be measured but I don't need to do that because I can hear the difference and can describe it very well. Is that not a good enough recommendation for me to make to someone who has the same speakers as I do?
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,775
    edited June 2007
    But WM2, can't you just take his word for what he says he heard?

    Not really. I used to believe there were differences as well, but my own blind comparisons, and a couple cable comparisons I sat in on at a local dealer, showed me I was wrong, and so were all the other participants.

    But a level change can be easily verified, so why not do it?
    I just changed the caps and resistors in my speaker crossovers. . .I hear a big difference, some of it really great and some of it not. I'm sure it can be measured but I don't need to do that because I can hear the difference and can describe it very well. Is that not a good enough recommendation for me to make to someone who has the same speakers as I do?

    It would be, but then how do you account for other people on this site who upgraded the caps on the same speakers, and claimed to hear only improvements?
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,775
    edited June 2007
    Maybe I should take this guys word that this device works:

    http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/machinadynamica2/ib.html

    Or these:

    http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/shakti/hallograph.html
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited June 2007
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    Maybe I should take this guys word that this device works:

    http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/machinadynamica2/ib.html

    Or these:

    http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/shakti/hallograph.html

    OK these two products have got to be the most completely foolish audio tweaks Ive ever seen.
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,775
    edited June 2007
    OK these two products have got to be the most completely foolish audio tweaks Ive ever seen.

    And yet you will find many people who claim to hear the difference they make. Check out Audio Asylum and see for yourself.
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited June 2007
    GV#27 wrote: »
    OK these two products have got to be the most completely foolish audio tweaks Ive ever seen.

    I take it then that you tried both products out in you system, and heard no difference. If not, your opinion is only that an opinion & not based on actual listening. The same goes for PC's, IC'c, speaker cables & the likes. Unless you actually went thru the trouble of doing a listening test then you really don't have a say in the matter, or a position that has any credibility. Without doing listening tests we are merely taking a wild guess if these "tweaks" really make an audible difference or not. I for one only comment on items that I have actually gone thru the trouble of adding to my system for a period of time to "hear" if they added or subtracted from my listening pleasure.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited June 2007
    There used to be days on this forum, when you could post what you liked or disliked....experience what worked or didn't....or just post a general, positive or negative impression about a product or products.

    It's sad that you can't just have fun in this hobby without an argument or agenda driven rhetoric spoiling the whole process. I believe that you should state your opinion in threads but don't crash it, keep it in context if at all possible. If someone is happy with an "upgrade" why does one have an overwhelming need to make him feel like an idiot, or make him feel like he is mis-informed?

    If you want to hate the subject, hate it when you read it and move on. You can even start your own thread, its that easy. I can understand gross mis-information and high cost suggestions but I wouldn't suggest them personally nor would most of the members....even the cable folks.

    Why can't we allow the poster to enjoy his experience without coloring it up with negativity. If you have something to say about the subject, start a new thread about the subject and leave it open to discussion. This place feels like it filled with the "piss" stickers that you see on vehicles....piss on Ford/Chevy/Etc.

    I tend to think that most folks on this forum have a brain and can think for themselves and subsequently make their own decisions based on the information provided here or otherwise. They even have a search function available to them.

    If you base any solid opinion on a single source, then that's your own fault. I believe this forum is pretty solid, informative and rarely does it get extreme. The new members post direct questions, old members post known questions, how is the customer service really any different?

    Since when did recommending something that costs $30 over something that costs $15 turn into a crime of humanity? It would be different if every proponent of this or that, suggested a 5-10x increase in $ expenditure....but they don't for the most part. It's all modest suggestions from my point of view. Audio is NOT your hobby if you're cheap; however, it doesn't have to be expensive either.

    Whatever, this place used to really fun and have genuine dialogue....what happened to that? I could care less about your cables, make your own decision, I know I did.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited June 2007
    Nice piece Doro, my sentiments exactly. Man you're up early.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,663
    edited June 2007
    doro, excellently put.
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,802
    edited June 2007
    the thin wire that's inside the fuse...
    Yup, all the juice from the power company has to go through that mains fuse (or fuses) in the audio component.

    The placebo effect is as viable in hi-fi as it is in pharmacology (not that there's anything wrong with that). Everyone can, and should, make his/her own judgement as to the value provided per unit price for any gizmo of potential interest.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited June 2007
    Another damn cables make a difference thread...

    Cables don't do didly with some equipment. With other equipment they obviously do. How hard can this be? :D

    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,802
    edited June 2007
    EDIT: Upon reflection, I fold.
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