Using Reciever as Pre

auto_pilot

I've read that some people use their powered receivers as a pre...and effectively use an amp to power their speakers...

Does that mean you bypass the amp already in the reciever in favor of a more powerful dedicated amp? Does it provide better sound?

I guess the reasoning would be that you get a AVR with excellent sound processing and a lot of the bells and whistles, but doesn't have the WATTS...and then buy a dedicated amp to push the speakers.

Am I understanding this right?

AndyGwis

You understood it 100% correctly.

AVRs provide very good value due to their processing and feature capabilities. To get the same features, you have to spend way more for a comparable pre-pro.

It's an easy progression from straight receiver to quasi separates. Most stand alone amps push speakers better than most receivers.

ben62670

auto_pilot wrote: »

I've read that some people use their powered receivers as a pre...and effectively use an amp to power their speakers...

Does that mean you bypass the amp already in the reciever in favor of a more powerful dedicated amp? Does it provide better sound?

I guess the reasoning would be that you get a AVR with excellent sound processing and a lot of the bells and whistles, but doesn't have the WATTS...and then buy a dedicated amp to push the speakers.

Am I understanding this right?

Yep Yep Yep:)

auto_pilot

I never thought of going this way...per se.

So you could buy a lower end Onkyo AVR with all the latest HDMI, DTS Master, etc...and then buy a really good dedicated amp...and upgrade the AVR as the tech improves for the industry. Granted the AVR has pre outs.

What would be considered a good value AVR to use as a pre?

Edit: I know Ben loves his HK...but I'm wondering what others.

danger boy

you can also check out Denon, Marantz and NAD receivers as good pre amps.

AndyGwis

I have an HK as well and really like it. Could get a great deal on a pre-pro, but the HK has held its own and then some the past year + for me.

But, yes, make sure it has preouts and you're good to go. Each avr (even as a pre-pro) will have it's own sonic signature so try a couple out.

auto_pilot

Andy: So does HK have a reputation for sounding better muscially than with HT?

I've read several reviews where they say that the AVR sounds better at one than the other...I suppose that's because it goes through different processing? In my current AVR I have the ability to go Analog direct which I assumes bypasses the AVR's digital processors. The sound is better than when it is in PCM mode.

I've already purchased my AVR...I plan to keep it for awhile...I'm just making notes for future plans, and these were burning questions I didn't get answered. I really wanted an AVR that did both music and HT well.

AndyGwis

I really like my HK 635, then again, outside of having a HTIB for years and a Pio VSX-1015, it's my only real HT experience.

In general terms, I think most people would agree that HK is one of the more musical AVRs compared to other popular ones (Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer), but I wouldn't say it blows away AVRs in it's price range.

I'd keep your current AVR and maybe just experiment with some separate amps here and there. Honestly, buying used amps is pretty much risk free. Unless you way overpay or it's damaged during shipping or something, you can resell amps for what you bought them for.

I've gone through tons of amps this last year just trying to find out what I like best.

auto_pilot

Yeah I came from a low end Onkyo with mini-Cambride Soundwork speakers...that I "thought" sounded great:D But you don't know what good sound is until you really listen to some quality setups...Night and day.

I'm amazed at how nuch the amp makes so much difference in sound. I would think the processing really deteremined the sound characteristics not the amp. From what I read, keeping the processing and the amplification separate really cuts down on the distortion and produces a cleaner sound.

I'll keep the separate AMP idea in mind when I get the bug to MOD. I just hate the fact that several new processing formats are on the horizon, and the feeling that I will be out of date in a few years.

AndyGwis

yeah, buying a processor or AVR is a money losing situation, they depreciate quickly once new technologies come out.

Used amps, in contrast, hardly depreciate at all. I think adding external amplification is the easiest, most financially risk-free way to improve a system's sound.

Wouldn't buy a $10K amp to try to make $500 speakers and a $300 receiver sound awesome, but I would surely add a $300 - 500 amp to make $500 speakers and a $300 receiver sound better.

auto_pilot

I guess if you really want to prepare yourself in terms of investment dollars:

speakers, amp, avr, wires


I put wires last because those can be upgraded over time when more money is available...

AndyGwis

I would put amp in front of AVR, but, yeah, looks about right. Speakers are harder to resell because of shipping.

I'll probably move fully to seperates for HT once some of the pre-pros start using HDMI, etc.

ben62670

AndyGwis wrote: »

yeah, buying a processor or AVR is a money losing situation, they depreciate quickly once new technologies come out.

Used amps, in contrast, hardly depreciate at all. I think adding external amplification is the easiest, most financially risk-free way to improve a system's sound.

Wouldn't buy a $10K amp to try to make $500 speakers and a $300 receiver sound awesome, but I would surely add a $300 - 500 amp to make $500 speakers and a $300 receiver sound better.

I hear the depreciation thing, but I think we are pretty safe for a while in terms of technology. DTS is one of the newer formats, and it is not in all the newer movies coming out. A lot is still DD. As for the people who say "well the video switching keeps changing" for me it doesn't really matter. It is usually best to run the video straight to the TV. As long as your AVR has 5.1/7.1 inputs, and Pre outs I think you are pretty safe for probably another 5+ years. Pro logic stuck around for 10+, DD 10+, and now DTS still has plenty of life. You can always buy a video switch.

AndyGwis

True, I guess HDMI is the one thing I would be keen on getting at some point. One cord from source to pre-pro/AVR. One cord from pre-pro/AVR to Monitor. Would make things a bit easier and tidier.

I have my XA1 hooked up to my 635 through coaxial and 6-channel analog (to take advantage of newer Dolby HD, DTS-HD, etc.) and through HDMI directly to Plasma. But, that's a lot of cables.

ben62670

AndyGwis wrote: »

True, I guess HDMI is the one thing I would be keen on getting at some point. One cord from source to pre-pro/AVR. One cord from pre-pro/AVR to Monitor. Would make things a bit easier and tidier.

I have my XA1 hooked up to my 635 through coaxial and 6-channel analog (to take advantage of newer Dolby HD, DTS-HD, etc.) and through HDMI directly to Plasma. But, that's a lot of cables.

I think this topic could almost turn into a cable like thread:) From what I gather they haven't figured out what they are going to do with HDMI. I feel safe with the multi channel inputs. I think we are at a point where they don't know where they are going, so the producers of HD/DVD are going to continue with their current formats, and the player manufacturers will fallow too. My setup is like yours, but lower quality:p

engtaz

auto_pilot wrote: »

Yeah I came from a low end Onkyo with mini-Cambride Soundwork speakers...that I "thought" sounded great:D But you don't know what good sound is until you really listen to some quality setups...Night and day.

I'm amazed at how nuch the amp makes so much difference in sound. I would think the processing really deteremined the sound characteristics not the amp. From what I read, keeping the processing and the amplification separate really cuts down on the distortion and produces a cleaner sound.

I'll keep the separate AMP idea in mind when I get the bug to MOD. I just hate the fact that several new processing formats are on the horizon, and the feeling that I will be out of date in a few years.

I startd with Onkyo and then swithed to a better AVR and then I added amps as needed. Good Luck and have fun.

auto_pilot

AndyGwis wrote: »

True, I guess HDMI is the one thing I would be keen on getting at some point. One cord from source to pre-pro/AVR. One cord from pre-pro/AVR to Monitor. Would make things a bit easier and tidier.

I have my XA1 hooked up to my 635 through coaxial and 6-channel analog (to take advantage of newer Dolby HD, DTS-HD, etc.) and through HDMI directly to Plasma. But, that's a lot of cables.

My biggest gripe with HDMI is that it is a bit flimsy...I've spoke a few experienced Audiophile guys who have either broker their HDMI cable connection, or broke their HDMI input connection into component...Which I fear I did with my AVR:( I like how Component and DVI are solid and stable...no chance of breaking them unless you do some aboslutely heinous things with them:eek:

I am of the pursuassion so far that I like to run the source straight to the TV, and leave my audio component separate...IMO one less chance for interference caused by passing through a component. I know it makes for a little bit of inconvenience...but if the quality of video and sound are better, then I'd take that any day. In fact, my current AVR just passes through the video signal...no upconversion. I like that.

cfrizz

Hi Sona. The inputs are exactly for what the manual says they are for.

What is needed is Preamp Outs. This is what is usually on the back of the receiver.