Opinions wanted on mounting SR-6500 tweeters in dash firing upwards at windshield

monologuist

The possible locations for the tweeters in my set of SR-6500's seem to be limited in my particular car. One of the only feasible locations is the stock dash locations which are located up near the windshield and fire upwards at them. It also places the tweeters a bit farther than is suggested from the drivers which are in the door panels firing practically at my legs.

Is it possible to get good SQ and imaging from a setup such as this? Or am I just wasting the potential of a high-performance speaker? Psychologically it does seem a damn shame to invest in 700$ components only to have the driver firing at my legs and the tweeters firing at the windshield! But then again, I've heard of some people having success with such a setup....

What do you think?!

ps. I could use the 15 degree angle mounts on the dash as well; would this make much of a difference?

MacLeod

My tweeters are in the dash firing up and its giving my fits trying to get my imaging squared away. Its hard to get things focused in.

That being said, a buddy of mine is competing in an Acura TL which uses the exact same speaker locations and his system sounds awesome! So it can be done, I just havent figured out how yet.

Still, Id rather mount them there than in the doors compaxially. If you buy a Dashmat, that will help tremendously.

300m

The angle mounts will help. Do you have any kind of processor? It will be difficult to get the tweeters dialed in unless you have the flexibility of a good processor. I used ring radiator tweeters aimed at my windshield a couple of years ago. It can be done, but usually not a plug and play deal.

monologuist

300m wrote: »

The angle mounts will help. Do you have any kind of processor? It will be difficult to get the tweeters dialed in unless you have the flexibility of a good processor. I used ring radiator tweeters aimed at my windshield a couple of years ago. It can be done, but usually not a plug and play deal.

No processing other than from the receiver. What route would you recommend? Also, are you guys installing your passive crossovers in a location that is easily accessible for tuning purposes? Or are the crossovers pretty much plug and play? There's on obvious external location in my cockpit; easiest would be behind door panel or maybe behind kick panel.

MacLeod

The crossovers dont have much tuning options other than an attenuator for the tweeter in -3, 0, +1 and
3 db steps.

I wouldnt mount them inside the door - too easy to pick up moisture and ruin them.

Where do you have your amps mounted? If theyre in the trunk, you could mount them back there nearby.

monologuist

Does it matter to have the crossovers at the beginning of the speaker run near the amp as opposed to up front near the speakers? It seems like most people are mounting their passive crossovers in the cockpit somewhere. If it doesn't matter, it would make much more sense to mount them in the back where the amps will be I'd think (they will most likely be bolted on the back of the rear seats in the hatch area.

Most likely I'll have to set the tweeter at -3db if I have them facing the windshield I would think. Maybe I can use the angle flushmount cups and try to aim the tweeters inwards a bit; pointing towards the center of the windshield? I've heard that that can provide a decent soundstage in some cars?

neomagus00

i've had my best results (as a combo of quality, imaging, and staging) with my tweeters in the dash - so much so that, later today, i'm removing my fiberglass pods and putting the mids back inside the doors...

as far as imaging and staging go, it's all trial and error... a very small change in angle can make a big difference (or none, depending on the car, tweeter, etc.), so plan on spending some time working with it.

what HU do you have? time alignment will be a godsend in this situation, but you can get pretty good results playing with phasing and angles nonetheless.

xover mounting - electrically, it makes more sense to mount them near the components, to reduce line losses and increase noise rejection. practically, it makes no difference, and you should put them where they'll be cool and reasonably accessible.

monologuist

neomagus00 wrote: »

i've had my best results (as a combo of quality, imaging, and staging) with my tweeters in the dash - so much so that, later today, i'm removing my fiberglass pods and putting the mids back inside the doors...

as far as imaging and staging go, it's all trial and error... a very small change in angle can make a big difference (or none, depending on the car, tweeter, etc.), so plan on spending some time working with it.

what HU do you have? time alignment will be a godsend in this situation, but you can get pretty good results playing with phasing and angles nonetheless.

xover mounting - electrically, it makes more sense to mount them near the components, to reduce line losses and increase noise rejection. practically, it makes no difference, and you should put them where they'll be cool and reasonably accessible.

I have the Pioneer P6900ub. I don't think it has time alignment. I know the 880PRS does, but I wanted a unit that had USB.

So mounting the crossovers won't have any real-world effect on SQ ? In that case, I'll just mount them right next to the amps in the hatch...wait...ooh..I just remembered...if I bi-amp the 6500's, then I'll need twice as much speaker cable if I do this then right? Dang....just put in an order with Knuconceptz. guess I'll have to order more wire.

For those who have mounted their 6500 tweeters in the dash, what did you mount them on? Of course my stock dash locations have 3.5" speaker mounts.

neomagus00

yeah, that's a point i forgot to mention... for every unit of cable you run to the xover, you have to run two units out of it to the speakers... i personally buy speaker wire in 100-foot increments, but i also rewire far too often, and i also find other uses for the stuff

i mounted my tweeters on a copper strip that has holes cut in it every half inch or so... i cut about six inches off, bent it into a shape like a pipe strap with a flat bottom, fastened the tweeter mounting cup into that, plugged the tweeter in, and put two screws through the end of the strip into the screw holes for the stock speakers...

PoweredByDodge

i did dash mount tweeters (as in IN the dash firing at the windshield), although they weren't SR's... all i can tell you is that they were acceptable. Not mind blowing, but I was very happy that it 'felt' like the band was on the hood rather than on my lap (ie. soundstage location). however, i am not a fan of that type of install location... too many variables and its a pain to get even close to 'right'. angle mount cups on the dash = my choice.

monologuist

PoweredByDodge wrote: »

i did dash mount tweeters (as in IN the dash firing at the windshield), although they weren't SR's... all i can tell you is that they were acceptable. Not mind blowing, but I was very happy that it 'felt' like the band was on the hood rather than on my lap (ie. soundstage location). however, i am not a fan of that type of install location... too many variables and its a pain to get even close to 'right'. angle mount cups on the dash = my choice.

you mean angle mounted pointed toward the driver? I think the Sr 6500 angled mounts are only 15 degrees....so they'd still be firing somewhat upwards. Or is there a way to mount them facing the driver on the dash?

PoweredByDodge

pretty much -- i'm currently using cups that are something like 45 degrees or so. you want them firing up, but not 'straight up' ...

neomagus00

depends... i get my best imaging results with the tweeters firing up into the windshield, both pointed slightly away from the driver's head... it pushes the image out past the a-pillars a bit... naturally, time alignment and fine eq'ing are required...

MacLeod

And a Dashmat!! Running tweeters in the dash firing up into the windshield is not the best way to go. It can be made to work (although I cant seem to figure out how) but its a lot easier and much more forgiving by using the A pillars. The sail panels are good too but because theyre so much closer, you can get issues with localization.

monologuist

PbyDodge what 45 degree cups are you using to mount the 6500 tweeters?

Neomagus, by "away from the driver's head?, do you mean they are pointed inwards toward the cabin, but angled towards the doors?

Macleod, My A-pillars have 0 depth...there's pretty much bare metal behind them...sail panels are not wide enough to fit the 6500 tweeter. It really is either the dash or the doors for me...You seem to be a big fan of the Dashmat huh? There is a Saab accessories site that sells one that is "faux velour" . I hate to uglify my interior with such a thing, but I've got my priorities straight! I'll give one of these a try....


One thing that I am afraid of is that the disparity in distance and direction between a 6.5" driver firing horizontally down near your legs plus a tweeter up on the dash firing upwards will result in a gap in the mid-frequencies. I've got my doors Raam-matted pretty well, so mid-bass should be decent with the 6500 drivers, but I won't have any mids coming at any direct listening angle, plus they will be separated so far from the tweeter highs....hmm...anyone have a any insights on this matter?

Off the top of my head, I'm wondering if there is a fix for this: mounting a 3 or 4" driver towards the top of the door panel (where I had once considered putting the tweeter only to realize the one next to me would be too close)..something like this:
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1616
hmm..but then I'd have to scrap the vaunted 6500 passive crossovers and go with a 3-way active setup up front. Is this a stupid idea?

neomagus00

1-going from the bottom up - no, a 3-way system is quite a good idea, but it can be wicked hard to set up properly. given that time alignment seems to be unavailable to you, i'd venture a guess that a third pair of speakers, with a third path length difference, would actually screw up the sound more than it would help, especially given the amount of work that went into the xovers.

2-you have a saab?

3-i mean pointed so that, if i could see the tweeters, i would see only the side of them... mine are pointed about ten degrees away from vertical, pointed forward and outward , like i'm trying to broadcast to the world (only 10 degrees, if that, mind you)... this just gives the best results with my particular car, ears, and seating position.

PoweredByDodge

monologuist wrote: »

PbyDodge what 45 degree cups are you using to mount the 6500 tweeters?

I'm not, I was speaking with regard to the components which are currently in my truck... with regard to general installation and how I personally like them pointed. But they're not SR's.

FYI - I have no idea of how you'd go about checking compatible cups, but the following cups DO have a "good" angle to them, one that suits my tastes just nicely (40 to 50 degrees off 180 flat to dash):

Polk DB (original)
Polk DX
Polk Momo (original) -- ?? -- I'm saying yes because I believe the DB/DX and Momo tweeters all fit in the same pods / cups (although they may have been painted differently).
Image Dynamics Chameleon
Audiobahn ABC

MacLeod

I feel your pain dude. My A pillars arent all that spacious either.

I got a black Dashmat but turns out my dashboard is a very dark blue and not black so it doesnt blend all the well. Still it doesnt look too bad but it did make a HUGE difference in SQ. Focused up some things quite nicely. Seemed to increase dynamics a bit and tone down some of the echos.

This is where I got mine. Dashmats.com They have the Signature Series which looks like suede. Its much more attractive than the standard mat. Thats what I wouldve gotten but they were out of stock and I have no patience!

A little trick tho, go to Autozone's website and pull up DASHBOARD COVERS and itll link you to the Dashmat.com website but the prices will be $10 cheaper than if you go to Dashmat.com directly.

Here are a couple pictures of mine




And here's what I do when I have some spare double sided tape and some extra speaker grills.

monologuist

MacLeod wrote: »

I feel your pain dude. My A pillars arent all that spacious either.

I got a black Dashmat but turns out my dashboard is a very dark blue and not black so it doesnt blend all the well. Still it doesnt look too bad but it did make a HUGE difference in SQ. Focused up some things quite nicely. Seemed to increase dynamics a bit and tone down some of the echos.

This is where I got mine. Dashmats.com They have the Signature Series which looks like suede. Its much more attractive than the standard mat. Thats what I wouldve gotten but they were out of stock and I have no patience!

A little trick tho, go to Autozone's website and pull up DASHBOARD COVERS and itll link you to the Dashmat.com website but the prices will be $10 cheaper than if you go to Dashmat.com directly.

Here are a couple pictures of mine




And here's what I do when I have some spare double sided tape and some extra speaker grills.

How do they stay mounted?

Also, the Dashmat site claims that there are no speaker cutouts for dash mounted speakers (maybe just for the signature series?) They claim that the fabric they are made of is the same material that speaker manufacturers use as grill covers, so there is no need....sounds a little fishy...

MacLeod

Nah. Its not different than grill cloth. I havent cut out the tweeter holes in mine. Actually just helps even more to soften the tweeters.