Bi-wire cable

daboyz

On a budget, the best bi-wire cable to get - terminated or not. Looking at Canare 4S11 from BJC but would appreciate other opinions or if any are for sale.

Dave

Bill Ayotte

Are you planning on soldering the terminations yourself? The 4S11 is a nice wire...I would pick up that and some spades from http://vampirewire.com/mcart/index.cgi

miner

www.impactacoustics.com

14/4 in-wall wire.

MuchoGrande

daboyz wrote: »

On a budget, the best bi-wire cable to get - terminated or not. Looking at Canare 4S11 from BJC but would appreciate other opinions or if any are for sale.

Dave

i'm looking at the same thing and also ordering some of the locking banana plugs they offer .... only conern is 14guage wire .... will that suffince? I usually stick to 12g and 10g for 20'+ runs.

steveinaz

daboyz wrote: »

On a budget, the best bi-wire cable to get - terminated or not. Looking at Canare 4S11 from BJC but would appreciate other opinions or if any are for sale.

Dave

Honestly Dave,
I'd spend your budget on a good single cable setup and jumper to your low section. Seriously.

1 good cable set is better than 2 mediocre cable sets, and you'll get better sound in my experience. keep in mind, the effects of bi-wiring are extremely subtle (if noticable at all). I bi-wired for years and finally gave up on it and went with better quality single cables.

The big benefits of bi-wiring come into play when using sepearte amplifiers and external cross-overs, anything less, is a waste of time & money in my book. This is strictly my opinion, others may disagree.

zombie boy 2000

+1 to Steve...
Bi-wiring has always produced a minimal (if any) sonic improvement in my set-up. That being said -- I have noticed an improvement when switching to single cables and replacing the stock jumpers with a similar run of cable. Most cable manufacturers will offer jumpers that complement each type of cable in their inventory.

The only difference being that I jumper to the tweeters. Thicker wire for low frequencies and all that jazz...

steveinaz

zombie boy 2000 wrote: »

+1 to Steve...
That being said -- I have noticed an improvement when switching to single cables and replacing the stock jumpers with a similar run of cable. ..

Exactly. When I had bi-wireable speakers, I made a home-brew set of jumpers from 12awg monster and some banana's I purchased at Radio Shack. I simply cut the cable in 7" lengths, stripped the ends and inserted into compression banana's.

heiney9

+3 on the single wire and then using high quality jumpers. I'm about ready to pull the trigger on some Signal Cables myself. I was going to go the DIY route but by the time I priced all the parts and pieces to make it look professional it was about the same cost.

I'm figuring a 10 ft. pair of signal cables terminated will run me $85 w/o the CP discount.

10 (x2) feet of Audioquest type 4 in bulk is $80 unterminated plus the cost of cable pants and shrink tubing to make it look real slick and your around $100 bucks using free nanners.

So I'm going the Signal Cable route. I highly suggest you do the same Dave, about the best value out there for the $$$.

The Canare wire is cheaper in bulk but IMO not as nice as the Signal Cable.

H9

ben62670

heiney9 wrote: »

+3 on the single wire and then using high quality jumpers. I'm about ready to pull the trigger on some Signal Cables myself. I was going to go the DIY route but by the time I priced all the parts and pieces to make it look professional it was about the same cost.

I'm figuring a 10 ft. pair of signal cables terminated will run me $85 w/o the CP discount.

10 (x2) feet of Audioquest type 4 in bulk is $80 unterminated plus the cost of cable pants and shrink tubing to make it look real slick and your around $100 bucks using free nanners.

So I'm going the Signal Cable route. I highly suggest you do the same Dave, about the best value out there for the $$$.

The Canare wire is cheaper in bulk but IMO not as nice as the Signal Cable.

H9

H9 and I are on the same page. I am running the AQ star quad, and every thing is nice about that wire. You do not lose the punch of the bass, and you keep your detail on the high end. I think Venom is running the same wire too. Maybe he'll chime in. BTW the AQ type 4 is 4 solid strands.

Ben

daboyz

Well, I had a few drinks last Sunday night and got a bug up my a$$ to go ahead and get the Canare and bi-wire. I hemmed and hawed between the Canare and Signal and went w/Canare. I'm just about to cut into it and make my cables. Now y'all got me wondering again.

ben62670

daboyz wrote: »

Well, I had a few drinks last Sunday night and got a bug up my a$$ to go ahead and get the Canare and bi-wire. I hemmed and hawed between the Canare and Signal and went w/Canare. I'm just about to cut into it and make my cables. Now y'all got me wondering again.

Every system is different. Try it, and if you don't like it for your system sell it to someone who is looking for that type of wire. The AQ wire is twice the price of Canare. The Canare is fine wire. Lots of people love it. Run it for 40 or so hours, and I think you will be quite impressed. I was thing of using that wire myself.

Enjoy
Ben

daboyz

Thanks, Ben! Me thinks you and Bill got me talked back into it. I only got a little cash wrapped up into it and that's the fun part about this hobby, right?
Try something different, if it works, great if not, try something else.

ben62670

daboyz wrote: »

Thanks, Ben! Me thinks you and Bill got me talked back into it. I only got a little cash wrapped up into it and that's the fun part about this hobby, right?
Try something different, if it works, great if not, try something else.

Yep. Every system sounds different. Every room is different. Everyone has different stuff in said room. Everyone has different ears. Nobody can tell you what will sound best on your system for you! The AQ's are more expensive, and can be edgy/bright on some systems. I have very little money(as in no money 2 kids, and health issues). So I just take my time. Do the DIY thing. Copy other designs. Find out what sounds best with a verity of different music.
Enjoy

heiney9

daboyz wrote: »

Thanks, Ben! Me thinks you and Bill got me talked back into it. I only got a little cash wrapped up into it and that's the fun part about this hobby, right?
Try something different, if it works, great if not, try something else.

Go for it!!! Didn't realize the original post was about 2 weeks old. Canare is def. nicer than regular small guage zip cord.

daboyz

I appreciate all the thoughts. I've got Monster Z2 reference running now so I'm interested to see if there is a difference I can detect. Trust me, the Signal was first choice, but then mortgage,car payment, daughter's braces,etc. comes into play.

steveinaz

Yeah, no harm done. There's nothing wrong with bi-wiring, it's just not usually necessary. Always run your best cable to the tweeter/mids. That's why I recommended jumping down to the lows if your using a single-cable setup.

dkg999

The Canare S411 is a really good inexpensive wire for making your own speaker cables. I've found it to be really neutral, detailed, and works really nice with the RDO tweeters in SDA's and Monitors. We've used my Canare cables at a couple of local audio get togethers. I keep them as my spare set of speaker cables.

Try them for bi-wiring and see if you like it. I wouldn't put lots of faith in the comments about not being heavy enough guage. I'm not sure that makes a big difference in most applications. If you don't hear much difference bi-wiring, then twist two of the wires together and shove them in one compression fitting banana plug and use them as a double run. That's the way I use the Canare S411. I then use a short length of either the S411 or the gray 12g cable BJC sells as a jumper between low and high speaker terminals and eliminate the metal jumper.

I do believe the Signal Cable ultra double run speaker cables are better (and hey they look cooler also, which is what really counts ). But you can't beat the Canare S411 for good sounding and cheap speaker cable. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it! Doug.

MikeC78

steveinaz wrote: »

Yeah, no harm done. There's nothing wrong with bi-wiring, it's just not usually necessary. Always run your best cable to the tweeter/mids. That's why I recommended jumping down to the lows if your using a single-cable setup.

Ehhh.. My Wife thinks everything that I have audio/HT wise is unnecessary.:o Just ask HTrookie;) ...

F1nut

I'll throw out another idea that I've found works best for me. I have high grade bi-wire cables, but wasn't entirely happy, so I added high grade jumpers with the bi-wires......PERFECT!!!

zombie boy 2000

steveinaz wrote: »

Yeah, no harm done. There's nothing wrong with bi-wiring, it's just not usually necessary. Always run your best cable to the tweeter/mids. That's why I recommended jumping down to the lows if your using a single-cable setup.

Since both the Arros and Linbrooks were single driver designs, I've always run my best cable to to the woofer/mid and jumpered to the tweeter. Reading the above post, are you placing more importance on the tweeter or mid? You've got me thinking either way, and I might find myself doing some A/B comparos tonight...

heiney9

Cables don't matter...............electrons are electron are electrons. Use tin foil for jumpers

H9

Lowell_M

Holy crap! H9 has been kidnapped by JohnK! Give him back!!!

MuchoGrande

ben62670 wrote: »

H9 and I are on the same page. I am running the AQ star quad, and every thing is nice about that wire. You do not lose the punch of the bass, and you keep your detail on the high end. I think Venom is running the same wire too. Maybe he'll chime in. BTW the AQ type 4 is 4 solid strands.

Ben

AudioQuest Star quad type 4? $1000+ for 3 meters? wtf, i cant justify spending that much on copper.

heiney9

MuchoGrande wrote: »

AudioQuest Star quad type 4? $1000+ for 3 meters? wtf, i cant justify spending that much on copper.

What have you been smoking? :eek: . In bulk it's $4 per foot. While my conversion from feet to meters isn't that great I don't believe 3 meters will cost you $1000. If it does, you are certainly shopping on the wrong planet!

F1nut

A meter is about 3.3 feet, so 3 meters is just under 10 feet.

MuchoGrande

heiney9 wrote: »

What have you been smoking? :eek: . In bulk it's $4 per foot. While my conversion from feet to meters isn't that great I don't believe 3 meters will cost you $1000. If it does, you are certainly shopping on the wrong planet!

oops, i was looking at a german website i think

http://mediaaudio.hr/site/upload_clog/audioquest_cjenik_04-2007.pdf

Bill Ayotte

Hey Daboyz, how are these working out for you?

daboyz

Bill and all, I've noticed more detail,especially in the highs compared to the Monster Z2. I keep feeling it's more of a mellow listening wire where if I wanna rock, I'll switch back to the Monster, which seems to be more in your face.In movies, I've watched Open Range where the shootout at the end is still amazing to me and LOTR, Fellowship and preferred the Canare due to the better detail.

ben62670

Give them a little time be fore you switch back. I'm not sure what the monsters are like, but defined bass is better than boomy bass. I'm not saying that your monsters make the bass boomy, because I never heard them. My bass with the AQ star quad was snappier, but wasn't bloated like with my monsters. Drum hits in particular is a good example. Please don't let my comments sway you into what sounds better to you. That is just my experience. Also try using the Monsters on the lows, and the Canare on the highs. See if that helps. I was thinking of doing my AQ's on the lows, and Canare on my highs, but I ran out of cash. Future project I guess. My highs are nice, and detailed, but Adcoms tend to be slightly grainy.
Like I said stick it out for a week, and then switch back to the monsters. Then you will really know what you like.
Ben

daboyz

Exactly, Ben. The base is more defined w/Canare. I wouldn't call the Monster boomy but it is a little more agressive. Cymbal hits are definitely clearer. That is a neat thought trying both together, I'll let you know how that comes out. I'll let the Canare's break in a little before I try it.
I've still go plenty of wire left. Is there any links to the jumper ideas that were mentioned plus where to purchase?

ben62670

Just take the jumper plates out. Strip some wires, and wrap the bare wires around the binding post in an S shape. That way when you tighten them it will pull the wire tight to the binding post. Kinda like wrapping threads with Teflon tape.;)