Media server PC...

Jstas

...in your car!

Well, this idea/project is off the ground floor. The trashmen at the diesel shop brought back a pile of used computers that someone pitched for no good reason other than they are old. They asked me if I could make something useful out of them. A couple of guys want them for thier young children and the boss wants two for the shop. I managed to make 9 operable PC's out of about 14 machines and 12 monitors.

Anyhoo, I snagged the last two machines for my use. They were all HP's but old enough that HP hadn't really started with the proprietary parts crap yet so I can still get parts from almost anywhere.

I'll take some pictures later but I have an empty steel case and two HP Pavillions with 733 MHz P3's in them. I know, not real fancy but if all it's going to do is serve up music and/or movie files, it doesn't have to be a screamer. They are mini-ATX form factor too so I think I can wedge one of these bad boys into a modified mini-atx case that will fit behind or under a seat or in a glovebox. They have on-board everything so I don't need to worry about PCI slots. Then again, I could get a riser board and mount a PCI card sideways.

My plan is fairly simple. I'm going to take a case, cut it up and narrow it. I'll take sheet metal and build ducting for the internal fans. I want to take apart a power supply to see if I can't bypass the AC section and just run it straight DC off of the vehicles charging system. Computers are 12v DC anyway so it should be doable. Otherwise a small power inverter will do fine since a 733 MHz P3 with a 120 GB hard drive, single floppy and DVD drive only needs about a 160-185 watt power supply. It'll draw about 3.5 amps too.

I should be able to use something like this:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/7e3e/



To easily access media file playback without having to have a full color sceen mounted somewhere. Then I can use a small, cheap LCD display to either hide or mount somewhere to see the screen when I need to. A small, laptop mouse and a roll-up keyboard can be stuffed in a door pocket or other cubby hole for when it is needed.

I'll have to document this. This'll be cool!

audiobliss

Sweet! You've got an awesome idea, and I can't wait to see how it turns out for you.

I've read about car'puters before, and the idea seems really cool.

Good luck!

ben62670

I have just used a PC with no keyboard video or mouse before, and just plugged it into my network. Then I use remote deskstop conection via my laptop to control the Media server. I am thinking about doing it again, and hooking it up to my projector. This time with a wireless keyboard, and mouse. Can you imagine over 3000 watts playing fear, or DoomIII on an 8 foot screen:eek:

bobman1235

This is a pretty popular idea these days - a friend of mine just built his second generation "carputer", and it all fits in his glove box, with enough room to still use the glove box. He even cut a slit in his dash for the front-load DVD drive. The whole thing displayed on one of those in dash single DIN fold-out screens. Wish I had pics.

Some links for you :
http://www.mp3car.com/
http://www.carnetix.com/

Or you could just save yourself the trouble and buy a Mac Mini, which can fit just about anywhere.

Jstas

Or I could just continue down the path I am going and build the system I am building because it will have other uses that a Mac is inadequate for. Also, while your links are quite interesting, the solutions presented there, aside from some of the user generated stuff, does not fit my space needs nor my desire for it to be hidden and unintrusive. A standard cab pickup truck is limited in space. The out-of-box solutions do not meet my needs either. I had other intended uses for the system for use at the track for data logging and telemetry. I can also install a cellular modem and place it on my SprintPCS cellphone plan for next to nothing a month and that allows me to download calibration maps for the ECMs we use on the race cars. Since my truck is usually there at the events, it would come in handy. Some tracks even have wireless access in the pits so I can use the PC to go wardriving for similar purposes too. Besides, I already have the interface worked out for Winamp and to the best of my knowledge, you can't get Winamp for Macs.

Although, the power supplies are intriguing. However, I don't really want to spend $145+ on one when I have several adequate spare supplies that I could easily modify to do what I need to do.

Also, there is no trouble to be saved. I've wanted to do something like this for a while and I want to try it out. I don't want someone else's solution that I'm going to pay out my nose for and have it be barely good enough to meet my needs. Especially when I have the abilities and know-how to do it myself and make it be exactly what I want. I've never been a checkbook mechanic.

Oh and ben62670, this is for my truck, not my home. It's hard to fit an 8 foot screen and still drive down the road safely!

bobman1235

I don't even like Macs, it was mostly meant in jest. Good luck with the project, sounds like it can be fun.

ben62670

Jstas wrote: »

Oh and ben62670, this is for my truck, not my home. It's hard to fit an 8 foot screen and still drive down the road safely!

You just need a usb camera, and have an open window with the road ahead.

J/K
Sorry I was juggling kids, and still am. PM me. I did a lot of research on mobile PC's for Nav, boat, and such. I will send you links to power supplies, and boards for 12v use.

PoweredByDodge

John...

Problems:

1- Power supply -- PC PSU's for even a low power cpu are going to put out varying V's -- a skimpy 150 watt PSU may be typically...

+12V @ 10A
- 12V @ 0.5A
+ 5V @ 10 A
- 5 V @ 0.5A

That being said, you can set up a pile of v-reg's, but that's more work than it's worth. Better to set up a buck for the +5, and then two DC-inverters for the negatives.

2- Pentium 3 is power hungry. You can get better performance (Pentium 4 grade... back when P4's were like 2.0 GHz with a 533 FSB) from a VIA C-7 ... and it'll only use 20 watts instead of 60. Even a VIA C3 Samuel will only use about 11 watts, and it will be about equal to a 1 GHz P3 for performance.

Now, I realize that you have the parts there, for free... but... if you're gonna take all this time, dumping 50 bucks in a board + processor combo that is going to be way more efficient isn't a bad idea... waayyyy more efficiency = waayyyyy less heat.

Lastly... the VIA's come in "mini-itx" form factors -- they're like 6 inches by 6 inches. with everything on board, video, audio, usb, etc.

ex - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153045
that one's crazy expensive... they can be found much cheaper, the 49.99 PC-Chips one that newegg used to have isn't comin up anymore... but they're around.

Jstas

Allow me to cut this up for a moment.

PoweredByDodge wrote: »

John...

Problems:

1- Power supply -- PC PSU's for even a low power cpu are going to put out varying V's -- a skimpy 150 watt PSU may be typically...

+12V @ 10A
- 12V @ 0.5A
+ 5V @ 10 A
- 5 V @ 0.5A

That being said, you can set up a pile of v-reg's, but that's more work than it's worth. Better to set up a buck for the +5, and then two DC-inverters for the negatives.

The power supply issues you are complaining of are because most PC power supplies are unregulated. However, I have an old Deer 185W regulated power supply to use. Unless of course you are reffering to wiring each DC lead up to it's own power tap. I would likely not go that route and just use a distribution bar and some step down circuits in line. I have to dig around in one to see what's going on first though so I really can't say for sure which way I would go yet.

However, the other benefit to having a PS of less than 200W is that I can hardwire a small power converter to the charging system and draw maybe 15 amps tops. Mount that under the dash somewhere and run a regular old power cord under the carpet and just plug the PC into the outlet. The nice thing about that is that the PC doesn't even have to be on if I don't want to use it. If I install a buck, the PC will draw off the battery constantly. That's not good. I would either modify the power supply to use the switchable lead for a turn-on/turn-off mode or use the power inverter to save the battery.

It may be "skimpy" by most standards but with a 733 MHz P3, it's not power hungry in any respect unless you are comparing it to an old Pentium processor then, yeah, it's a power hog. I don't want a gigantically powerful power supply nor do I want a P4 which requires at least a 300 watt power supply. It will create too much heat and draw too much power. I will need several fans. I don't need a processor fan for a 733 P3. I can use a heat sync and get a couple of smaller, low-speed fans that will make no noise and move just as much air as one big fan. I understand what you are saying about power draw and performance but it's honestly not going to need it. Size, noise and heat are considerations with more weight on them in this.

PoweredByDodge wrote: »

2- Pentium 3 is power hungry. You can get better performance (Pentium 4 grade... back when P4's were like 2.0 GHz with a 533 FSB) from a VIA C-7 ... and it'll only use 20 watts instead of 60. Even a VIA C3 Samuel will only use about 11 watts, and it will be about equal to a 1 GHz P3 for performance.

Power hungry? A P3? Seriously? Maybe if it's one of the overclocked 1.0+ GHz processors. They chew up power like it's going out of style. A 733 MHz processor, no, not a power hog in any respect. And even so, with no peripherals besides a lowly, 120 GB IDE drive to power aside from the occasional use of a DVD and floppy drive, this thing will not be any sort of power hog. It'll be barebones all the way. The only thing I can think of that would draw more power besides the MB and processor is if I add a PCI riser and put this card in there:

http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/searchdetail.asp?productID=5029


Then I can use a PCMCIA wireless card or a PCMCIA cellular modem or even a USB or firewire adapter. This isn't going to be a control center. It's going to be another source that will allow me to have the flexibility of something like an iPod Movie without all the trendy BS, the DRM and one funcation wonder style operation of an iPod. It's not going to play games or anything so it doesn't have to be a hot rod. It's just gotta have enough guts to play back MP3's or movie files without dragging its feet. A 733 MHz P3 with half a gig of RAM will work out just fine.

PoweredByDodge wrote: »

Now, I realize that you have the parts there, for free... but... if you're gonna take all this time, dumping 50 bucks in a board + processor combo that is going to be way more efficient isn't a bad idea... waayyyy more efficiency = waayyyyy less heat.

A board and processor with on-board graphics and sound with a processor is not going to cost $50. Unless the board is complete junk like ChinaTek or Biostar. At that point, I'd rather find a 286SX board and use that loaded with Quantum Fireballs that will set my truck on fire than deal with the headache that is a Chinese rip-off motherboard. The board I currently have is an Intel board with an Intel processor. It's a much better board and it's not crammed full of crap in a 1/2 foot square board.

PoweredByDodge wrote: »

Lastly... the VIA's come in "mini-itx" form factors -- they're like 6 inches by 6 inches. with everything on board, video, audio, usb, etc.

ex - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153045
that one's crazy expensive... they can be found much cheaper, the 49.99 PC-Chips one that newegg used to have isn't comin up anymore... but they're around.

The problems I have here are that the ITX form factor is too small. It packs too much crap in to too small of a space and since this will likely be mounted in a space that is tight to begin with, heat is an issue. Yes, the ITX form factor will fit in more places than a small ATX board but the ATX board I can mount in a very slim/flat box and still get the heat dissapation with minimal effort that I'm looking for.

Also, I never heard of JetWay motherboards and I'm real reluctant to fork over money on an idea that might not work out right just to end up with a motherboard I'd have no use for. I know of the PC-Chips board you are speaking of but again, not a fan of PC-Chips, I've had bad experiences with them. They can't survive in a relativly stable environment. Dropping one in a vehicle that is going to jostle the hell out of it is not a good idea in that respect. I've had Intel and Tyan boards mounted in systems that were installed in trailers or shipped around the world and had no problems with them. I would much rather go with a tried and tested system like that.

Lastly, if that is one of the new VIA boards, it will have problems. I have heard of nothing but headaches with them. I know the stuff I have works and I have plenty of spare parts to cobble together a complete system that will be stable and reasonably well performing.


I know I don't have to say this to you but everyone else gets thier panties in a bunch otherwise. Thank you for your suggestions. I'm not trying to argue or put down your ideas. It's good to have a differing point of view, it helps me think of things I might be over-looking. I didn't really think of the PC being on all the time and draining the battery until you mentioned a buck and that got me thinking about constant draws and switching. So even though it sounds like I'm overly critical, I'm not and I do actually find it useful. And thank you for having the balls to throw you ideas at me and then listening to what I have to say also. I really enjoy your posts and I honestly value your opinions, criticisms and insight. That goes for most people here.

PoweredByDodge

**gives John a hug** awww... I love you too.



heh heh heh...

a) ya, I figured you'd be doing direct - 'wire to wire' 5 and 12 v supplies, to the molex connectors on the board and drives and such. if you've got a unit that you can just dump 12 v into, then that makes life a whole helluva lot easier.

b) JetWay isn't bad at all. Their main market is 'point of sale' stuff, like cash registers, ATM type machines, **** like that. They're a bit pricey though as most of their stuff is made to be fanless, so a lot of hours go into their R/D guys figuring out how to put a 20 pound heatsink onto a 1 pound board and still have it fit in a 1/2 pound bag.

c) Quantum Fireball --- nuff said... hahahaaaaaaaaa...

d) new VIA -- new C7's on VIA boards tend to be fine... but new C7's on non-via boards (ie. Epox, or whomever) are having issues, yes. The worst of them use SIS chipsets when the C7 spec calls for --only-- the VIA chipset due to proprietary crap that I'm not too clear on.

e) on a side thought -- you could make the case part of the heatsink. since you're fabbing your own case, you can somehow integrate it into sinking heat for the drive(s) and processor... possibly negating the need for a fan.

Jstas

PoweredByDodge wrote: »

**gives John a hug** awww... I love you too.



heh heh heh...

a) ya, I figured you'd be doing direct - 'wire to wire' 5 and 12 v supplies, to the molex connectors on the board and drives and such. if you've got a unit that you can just dump 12 v into, then that makes life a whole helluva lot easier.

b) JetWay isn't bad at all. Their main market is 'point of sale' stuff, like cash registers, ATM type machines, **** like that. They're a bit pricey though as most of their stuff is made to be fanless, so a lot of hours go into their R/D guys figuring out how to put a 20 pound heatsink onto a 1 pound board and still have it fit in a 1/2 pound bag.

c) Quantum Fireball --- nuff said... hahahaaaaaaaaa...

d) new VIA -- new C7's on VIA boards tend to be fine... but new C7's on non-via boards (ie. Epox, or whomever) are having issues, yes. The worst of them use SIS chipsets when the C7 spec calls for --only-- the VIA chipset due to proprietary crap that I'm not too clear on.

e) on a side thought -- you could make the case part of the heatsink. since you're fabbing your own case, you can somehow integrate it into sinking heat for the drive(s) and processor... possibly negating the need for a fan.

a.) Yeah, it's an experiment. The power is my biggest issue to figure out. I can put a PC together that'll be slicker than snot for damn near any environment. That is not the issue. Fitting the kind of hardware that I want where I need it is. bobman already posted a link to those DC-DC power supplies so even if I can't work out one this way, that is always an option. I want to try it this way first. Ya learn something getting your hands dirty.

b.) That's probably why I never heard of JetWay. If all they do it point-of-sale systems, I wouldn't have touched them, ever, in my "career". I probably wouldn't go with them anyway because I don't mind a fan. I can get fans that will run silently and take .13A to run. They will run slower than a typical fan so there isn't as much mechanical noise from the fan or the air moving either. If you double them up, they are still quiet and will move just as much air. They'll still take less power to run too and they'll run off of a typical fan jumper on a motherboard. I don't mind the idea of a fan, I just don't want the 120mm behemoths screaming away all the time like the power house system I have in my apartment.

c.) I always thought that Quantum plagued that hard drive series with an unfortunate name. They were good drives until they started living up to thier monikers. It turned me off of Quantum pretty much permanently. Alot of other people I know too. The only other drives I've had physically burn...talking flames and everything...was Maxtor. I won't use those unless I absolutly have to either. Seagate is the way to go, especially with a 5-year warraty.

d.) I haven't heard much about the C7's though. I haven't been paying much attention in the past few months though. I didn't even realize they were available.

e.) I was planning on modifying a steel frame and covering it with carpeted 1/4" plywood to match the enclosures behind the seat. It'll keep noise down and hide it well enough. I'm going to have to rearrange everything and probably build a new box for the sub. What I will probably end up doing is getting an interior air filter, taking it apart and putting it into a vent at the top, mount the sboard vertically with the drives at the bottom and the PCMCIA slot access on the side. Put a USB connector somewhere with easy access and then run 2-3 fans at the bottom firing through a rectagular port. If I recess the fans and duct the output, maybe even through port tubes, nobody is going to see of hear it. It will just look like a gigantic sub enclosure.

The other bonus is, if I can get something decent out of my idea, I'll have plans that will let someone take a standard PC case and make wood panels to cover it instead of the typical beige or black steel or bare aluminum. That would be awesome for a home theater PC and it wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb!