Center Channel Question

auto_pilot
auto_pilot Posts: 256
edited June 2007 in Speakers
New guy...checking in.

I was wondering if a dim sounding center channel is the product of the Reciever or the Center Channel? Or a mix of both. I have the Cambridge Audio 640R...and from everything I've read it should firmly plant the voices in the center, but the voices don't come out loud enough???

Also...I am a newbie at teh HT...this is my first serious effort.

TIA.
Cambridge Audio AZUR 640R
KEF IQ2C Center, Fronts KEF IQ1 , Rears KEF Ci302Q
Sub Outlaw LFM2
Panasonic Plasma 1080i (50u)
Sony DVP-NS70H (DVD)
Belkin Pure Audio PF31 Line Conditioner
Post edited by auto_pilot on
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Comments

  • polrbehr
    polrbehr Posts: 2,834
    edited May 2007
    Welcome to CP.

    First, what kind of center are you using?

    I would first check wiring polarity ( you never know );)

    I am not familiar with Cambridge, but are you able to change the output levels
    to the center? Is the center set to small or large?

    Also, check to make sure you are not listening to DVDs in any DSP modes ( if the Cambridge has them ?). I believe DTS or Dolby Digital will give you the most output from the center.

    I'm sure there could be other things, but this is where I would start.

    Good luck.
    So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?


    http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/
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  • G-2
    G-2 Posts: 533
    edited May 2007
    Welcome CP!
    Home Theater
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    2 - Channel
    Polk     RTA 12c's w/RDO194 TWEETS, clarity ESA caps mills resistors (full mod)|Turntable|
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  • auto_pilot
    auto_pilot Posts: 256
    edited May 2007
    polrbehr wrote: »
    Welcome to CP.

    First, what kind of center are you using?

    I would first check wiring polarity ( you never know );)

    I am not familiar with Cambridge, but are you able to change the output levels
    to the center? Is the center set to small or large?

    Also, check to make sure you are not listening to DVDs in any DSP modes ( if the Cambridge has them ?). I believe DTS or Dolby Digital will give you the most output from the center.

    I'm sure there could be other things, but this is where I would start.

    Good luck.


    Existing center is KEF IQ2C...you can bi-wire, but I don't think I can bi-wire my Cambridge. I have increased the output level a few db's...and adjusted some other things. And its good to know I'm doing the same things you suggested.

    My output is set to small...And I only listen to my movies in either DTS or DD...The DSP modes are okay.

    My speaker position is above my ears...The axiom site suggests tilting the CC downward toward the seating position...I'm going to try that.

    So really...it's hard to say if it is my reciever or my speakers. I've heard some combinations don't work well together...I'm hoping this isn't the case for me.

    BTW...this really happens in low level movie watching...say -55 to -52 levels...At say -46 or higher, it seems to clear up.
    Cambridge Audio AZUR 640R
    KEF IQ2C Center, Fronts KEF IQ1 , Rears KEF Ci302Q
    Sub Outlaw LFM2
    Panasonic Plasma 1080i (50u)
    Sony DVP-NS70H (DVD)
    Belkin Pure Audio PF31 Line Conditioner
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  • auto_pilot
    auto_pilot Posts: 256
    edited May 2007
    G-2 wrote: »
    Welcome CP!

    Thanks...:D
    Cambridge Audio AZUR 640R
    KEF IQ2C Center, Fronts KEF IQ1 , Rears KEF Ci302Q
    Sub Outlaw LFM2
    Panasonic Plasma 1080i (50u)
    Sony DVP-NS70H (DVD)
    Belkin Pure Audio PF31 Line Conditioner
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,664
    edited May 2007
    The KEF IQ2C is not that efficient @ 89db. Have you done the calabration on page 14 of the manual?
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • auto_pilot
    auto_pilot Posts: 256
    edited May 2007
    engtaz wrote: »
    The KEF IQ2C is not that efficient @ 89db. Have you done the calabration on page 14 of the manual?

    Honestly no...I had my installer set it up...I browsed the setup manual a little...but not fully. I will when I get home.

    BTW...I couldn't look at that. Is it on the website??? Maybe I can look at it from there?
    Cambridge Audio AZUR 640R
    KEF IQ2C Center, Fronts KEF IQ1 , Rears KEF Ci302Q
    Sub Outlaw LFM2
    Panasonic Plasma 1080i (50u)
    Sony DVP-NS70H (DVD)
    Belkin Pure Audio PF31 Line Conditioner
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,664
    edited May 2007
    The link I provided is a word doc copy of the calibration section of the manual.
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,664
    edited May 2007
    By the way nice AVR.
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • auto_pilot
    auto_pilot Posts: 256
    edited May 2007
    engtaz wrote: »
    The link I provided is a word doc copy of the calibration section of the manual.

    If you mean the Cambridge Manual...then yes...I read it and have been messing with a few things.

    So...if 89db is when it is inefficient...does that mean I need to have the volume up for this puppy to sing true. If that's the case, then that would explain how the center channel clears up at higher volume levels...But at lower levels it's seem cloudy??? I don't know if I'm saying that right.
    Cambridge Audio AZUR 640R
    KEF IQ2C Center, Fronts KEF IQ1 , Rears KEF Ci302Q
    Sub Outlaw LFM2
    Panasonic Plasma 1080i (50u)
    Sony DVP-NS70H (DVD)
    Belkin Pure Audio PF31 Line Conditioner
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  • auto_pilot
    auto_pilot Posts: 256
    edited May 2007
    engtaz wrote: »
    By the way nice AVR.

    Thanks...I was torn between the Marantz 7001, Denon 2807, and Onkyo 804...but saw a bunch of write ups on the CA 640R...so I went for it. It really sings true in 2 channel mode...The KEF's come alive, and very clear...though bass section is not really there.

    Someday I'd like to move to nicer tower speakers for dedicated 2 channel...But my wife might shoot me;)
    Cambridge Audio AZUR 640R
    KEF IQ2C Center, Fronts KEF IQ1 , Rears KEF Ci302Q
    Sub Outlaw LFM2
    Panasonic Plasma 1080i (50u)
    Sony DVP-NS70H (DVD)
    Belkin Pure Audio PF31 Line Conditioner
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,664
    edited May 2007
    Adjust per ear you might have to turn it up higher then the other speakers unless AVR comes with a mic for sound adjustment or do you have a sound meter?
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • auto_pilot
    auto_pilot Posts: 256
    edited May 2007
    engtaz wrote: »
    Adjust per ear you might have to turn it up higher then the other speakers unless AVR comes with a mic for sound adjustment or do you have a sound meter?

    No mic...I'll need a sound meter. Are there any helpful websites I can check out for proper calibration. Not that I don't trust my installer...he did a good job. But I fear...I may have the tweaker syndrome.
    Cambridge Audio AZUR 640R
    KEF IQ2C Center, Fronts KEF IQ1 , Rears KEF Ci302Q
    Sub Outlaw LFM2
    Panasonic Plasma 1080i (50u)
    Sony DVP-NS70H (DVD)
    Belkin Pure Audio PF31 Line Conditioner
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  • auto_pilot
    auto_pilot Posts: 256
    edited May 2007
    Nice setup engtaz:eek: I notice you are an Outlaw fan too. I almost went with their 970 pre /7075 amp combo...The write ups were phenomenal. But they had a few bugs I didn't want to deal with in the 970. I wanted to step up to the 990...but it was a little more than I wanted to spend.
    Cambridge Audio AZUR 640R
    KEF IQ2C Center, Fronts KEF IQ1 , Rears KEF Ci302Q
    Sub Outlaw LFM2
    Panasonic Plasma 1080i (50u)
    Sony DVP-NS70H (DVD)
    Belkin Pure Audio PF31 Line Conditioner
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,664
    edited May 2007
    Just do it by ear first. All speakers should be adjusted to sound the same loudness. Rat Shak has sound meters and you adjust the meter to read 0 db ( with the white\pink noise ) then bring the other speakers to the same level.
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • auto_pilot
    auto_pilot Posts: 256
    edited May 2007
    engtaz wrote: »
    Just do it by ear first. All speakers should be adjusted to sound the same loudness. Rat Shak has sound meters and you adjust the meter to read 0 db ( with the white\pink noise ) then bring the other speakers to the same level.

    Cool thanks for handling all the newb questions.

    I'll see if that works.
    Cambridge Audio AZUR 640R
    KEF IQ2C Center, Fronts KEF IQ1 , Rears KEF Ci302Q
    Sub Outlaw LFM2
    Panasonic Plasma 1080i (50u)
    Sony DVP-NS70H (DVD)
    Belkin Pure Audio PF31 Line Conditioner
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,664
    edited May 2007
    No problem this is a great forum with alot of helpful members.
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • auto_pilot
    auto_pilot Posts: 256
    edited May 2007
    engtaz wrote: »
    No problem this is a great forum with alot of helpful members.

    So far so good...even if I don't own anything Polk ;) people have been nice.
    Cambridge Audio AZUR 640R
    KEF IQ2C Center, Fronts KEF IQ1 , Rears KEF Ci302Q
    Sub Outlaw LFM2
    Panasonic Plasma 1080i (50u)
    Sony DVP-NS70H (DVD)
    Belkin Pure Audio PF31 Line Conditioner
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,664
    edited May 2007
    By the way, what guided you to this forum?
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • auto_pilot
    auto_pilot Posts: 256
    edited May 2007
    engtaz wrote: »
    By the way, what guided you to this forum?

    Initially my installer wanted to set me up with one of the Polk RM Series...so I did some research and found this forum. Also, my company doesn't block this site for now...so I decided to join and learn a few things.
    Cambridge Audio AZUR 640R
    KEF IQ2C Center, Fronts KEF IQ1 , Rears KEF Ci302Q
    Sub Outlaw LFM2
    Panasonic Plasma 1080i (50u)
    Sony DVP-NS70H (DVD)
    Belkin Pure Audio PF31 Line Conditioner
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  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,664
    edited May 2007
    I am not a fan of RM Series, I like Vintage Polk.
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • auto_pilot
    auto_pilot Posts: 256
    edited May 2007
    engtaz wrote: »
    I am not a fan of RM Series, I like Vintage Polk.

    I should have done more research...I trusted my installer a little bit...but I have to remember he has profit to consider when he's making his suggestions.

    Do you think an upgrade to my center may clear things up?
    Cambridge Audio AZUR 640R
    KEF IQ2C Center, Fronts KEF IQ1 , Rears KEF Ci302Q
    Sub Outlaw LFM2
    Panasonic Plasma 1080i (50u)
    Sony DVP-NS70H (DVD)
    Belkin Pure Audio PF31 Line Conditioner
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,664
    edited May 2007
    no, just do the calibration and listen to how it turns out.
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
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  • polrbehr
    polrbehr Posts: 2,834
    edited May 2007
    auto_pilot wrote: »
    I should have done more research...I trusted my installer a little bit...but I have to remember he has profit to consider when he's making his suggestions.

    Do you think an upgrade to my center may clear things up?


    Maybe... but try a few more things on what you already own.

    If you want to look at Polks, they make some fine centers that can be had used (check the Flea Market here) for not a lot of money. I have a CSi30 that I am very happy with.
    So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?


    http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/
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  • auto_pilot
    auto_pilot Posts: 256
    edited May 2007
    Thanks guys for all the suggestions...I am going to try a few things.

    I haven't given up hope.
    Cambridge Audio AZUR 640R
    KEF IQ2C Center, Fronts KEF IQ1 , Rears KEF Ci302Q
    Sub Outlaw LFM2
    Panasonic Plasma 1080i (50u)
    Sony DVP-NS70H (DVD)
    Belkin Pure Audio PF31 Line Conditioner
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  • AndyGwis
    AndyGwis Posts: 3,655
    edited May 2007
    I think you're probably just noticing a common problem with dialog at low volume levels. Other than running your center a little hot (up a few dbs in the setup), there are some other features AVRs have to get good dialogue at lower volumes.

    Some have a diagolue enhancement feature (pretty much just bumps up the center level), while others have a Night feature (so you can turn up the volume for good dialogue but dynamically compresses the sound effects to keep things on an even keel).
    Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
    Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850
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  • auto_pilot
    auto_pilot Posts: 256
    edited June 2007
    Okay...update.

    My speakers seem to be sounding better and better...Break in period is lonnng on the KEFs I guess. I did crank up the center a few dbs...and voices now come out stronger...but I can tell it is a wee bit out of balance...but I will live with it for now.

    Also...I noticed that it could be the source material as well. For example, Fantastic Four center channel comes our stronger than Pirates of the Carribean. It seems DTS turns everything up a tad, and defines everything a little better than DD. I'll have to do more listening, but DTS seems to come out better overall when it comes to movies.
    Cambridge Audio AZUR 640R
    KEF IQ2C Center, Fronts KEF IQ1 , Rears KEF Ci302Q
    Sub Outlaw LFM2
    Panasonic Plasma 1080i (50u)
    Sony DVP-NS70H (DVD)
    Belkin Pure Audio PF31 Line Conditioner
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