Rear deck

Pantocrator

I'm getting comps for the front, either Polk MOMO's or diamond Hex's at this point. What, if anything, should I get for the rear deck. I have a Stratus, and will have subs in the trunk. Some say I should leave it empty, others say to add midbass speakers, others say coax... Any help is appreciated. Also, I know this is a Polk forum, but can you tell me why I should get Polk MOMO's over Diamond Hex's (6.5 in comps). I am about sound quality, really clean and accurate.

MacLeod

Use nothing.

Rear speakers only serve to pull your soundstage to the rear.

If you werent going to run subs then its not a horrible idea to add some low end response but since youll be using subs, Id take the money you save on not using rear speakers and put them into a set of SR components instead of the Momos.

Pantocrator

I know this is probably bad, but why should I get Polk instead of Diamond Audio, in your opinion. Remember, I'm about sound quality. Are you sure that it won't sound "empty" with no treble or mid behind me?


Edit:
Also, are JL subs high quality (I don't know if Polk makes subs, they're famous for speakers....) iwas thinking 12w6v2

1996blackmax

I have not heard the Diamond Hex's, but the Polks are a solid component set.

The 12w6v2 is a very nice subwoofer. I would say it is a pretty well rounded sub.

I just recently went back to having rear speakers because of having passengers in my car. I did not like having the image stuck to the left of my steering wheel when I was driving with passengers (cannot really time align the sound just for me as it sounds bad for everyone else). Over the years I have found that if I use time alignment and delay the sound of my front speakers, and attenuate the sound of the rears, the image seems to get pulled a little towards the center when all speakers are playing. This is not perfect but it is a very good compromise, and I find this to sound alot better than just having the front speakers on.

I also like to play around with the sound, and have gone back to having a little bit of rear fill on ocassions (even with just me in the car). I delay the sound of the rear speakers by a good amount, as well as having them play at a much lower level than the front speakers (to the point that you can't really tell that they are on). This gives the impression of listening to music in a much larger listening environment without really destroying the front stage.

Pantocrator

So I should just keep the back clear? Will it matter if I have rear passengers? How do i do time delay things? Is that part of the amps, crossovers, or HU? If I get rear speakers, what type should they be?

MacLeod

Pantocrator wrote: »

Are you sure that it won't sound "empty" with no treble or mid behind me?

Ask yourself this. If you were going to set up a reference level, audiophile home audio system, would you use a single pair of excellent speakers set in front of you or would you use 4?

Same thing in a car. The best sound quality will come from having a high quality set of stereo, component speakers, PROPERLY INSTALLED AND POWERED in front of you. Having speakers in the rear playing the exact same frequencies as the front ones will only smear the detail and imaging focus and pull the soundstage to the rear.

Now if your desire is to have good sound for your back seat passengers or run 5.1 surround, then back speakers are the way to go.

Pantocrator

But if i have midbass in the back, then it will not be the same frequencies...

MacLeod

The point of midbass speakers is so youll have those bass and midbass up front. Frequencies over 80 HZ tend to pull to the sub really bad and get worse the higher you go. Putting midbass speakers in the back would defeat the purpose of them. You might as well have the sub playing most of the frequencies as it would be better suited for it.

Pantocrator

So basically- if I want high quality sound, I get good comps in the front, subs in the trunk and nothing in the rear deck, and that's it. You're sure...???? In that case... is SR really that much better than MOMO? Or can I stick with the cheaper line?

MacLeod

You get what you pay for. That is nowhere more true than in audio. More expensive speakers will almst always sound better than cheaper ones.

I say this a lot but it makes the point so well - I used the SR6500's last year in SQ competition and did quite well and was only using a 5 band EQ. The speakers did all the work. I just made sure they were properly installed and powered. I used only a set of SR6500's up front and a single 10 in back.

Even now, in a totally new car and new install, Im using SR5250's up front and a single 10 in the back and in 5 competitions so far this season, Ive got 5, 1st place trophies (and trust me, its not because Im a master tuner - I just use speakers that can do all the work for me ).

So yes, 2 channel music is best reproduced using 2 channels, not 4.

Pantocrator

I believe you- I'm 17, so I'm just doubting whether the SR are THAT much better than the MOMO for the price... I have a budget since I'm only in high school.

MacLeod

My rule of thumb for audio is to get the most expensive set of speakers I can afford.

If $300 is your max budget, then dont sweat it. The Momos are damn fine speakers and very hard to beat for that price. You can have excellent sound for $300. But if you can swing $750, youll be glad you did.

Pantocrator

i've found them for 500 bucks online- anywhere cheaper you know of?

MacLeod

I wouldnt buy them for $500 online. Thats an unauthorized retailer and those are probably remanufactured crap. I highly suggest getting them thru and authorized retailer. That way you know youre getting brand spanking new gear straight from the factory with the full blessing and warranty of the manufacturer.

1996blackmax

MacLeod wrote: »

Ask yourself this. If you were going to set up a reference level, audiophile home audio system, would you use a single pair of excellent speakers set in front of you or would you use 4?

Same thing in a car. The best sound quality will come from having a high quality set of stereo, component speakers, PROPERLY INSTALLED AND POWERED in front of you. Having speakers in the rear playing the exact same frequencies as the front ones will only smear the detail and imaging focus and pull the soundstage to the rear.

If not properly setup....yes. Many people do not know how to properly setup rearfill. This is accomplished when you cannot even tell that you are getting any sound from the rear (this true when I am only using rear fill when it's setup for just me, it's a little different when I have the setting for when passengers are in the car). If you have not done this you probably do not know what I am talking about.

I have properly powered speakers. I ran my fronts with almost 200 watts RMS, biamped for a while......two different times. I am running gear that many would consider more than middle of the road, properly installed and wired up. I have about three layers of Second Skin deadener on my front doors. My mids are mated to the doors with 3/4" MDF mounts.

I guess it all depends on how you like your sound and how it is tuned. You have to be careful when using rear fill. I see it as a compromise when I have passengers as I do not get the "best" stage, but it's alot better than just having the two front speakers on and having the image stuck near the A-pillar. The way I have it now it is right in front of my steering wheel...not bad for OEM mounting locations and having all the speakers going. This also takes a little from the stage as they are not attenuated to the same level as when I have rear fill only for me. To me this is a perfect compromise, as the image seems to be coming from in front of me (same thing for the front passenger) instead of the A-pillar.

One funny thing about the sound stage is that alot ot times when you go to a concert or a smaller venue the sound is actually not just in front of you but there are a ton of reflections, and the sound is not always the best as far as SQ goes....just a thought.

I have experimented with alot of different setups. I have been playing with setups with TA since the 90's, back before it was the norm. I am not using rearfill because I do not know what I am doing or what good sound is. I have been in car audio for a very long time......bottom line do what sounds good to you.

I am very happy with my setup.

Pantocrator

Thanks everybody. Right now, I'll go with comps for the front *(purchased from an authorized retailer I gues....) with no rear fill. If you are allowed to answer this- Why is Polk the best? (for speakers) Except for subjective stories, is there any data to why I should get this instead of Diamond Audio? They both seem very high quality.

MacLeod

Its all subjective. It depends on the sound YOU like best.

Im a headbanger and listen to about 99% heavy metal so I like a natural, smooth sounding speaker. Thats Polk.

If you like speakers that are thinner in the midbass but have extreme detail, then Diamonds are for you. If you like a brighter sound but with tons of midbass, then Focal would be a good choice.

Polk is best for me. You have to determine what is best for you and what is most suited to your listening tastes.

Pantocrator

Would you have a recommendation for me? I like a lot of accuracy and detail, and I like all sorts of music, especially LOTR, Pirates of the Carribean, (you know, orchestra stuff) but also a lot of rock and a small amount of rap.

MacLeod

Polk has a more "natural" sound so they would be a good place to start. MB Quart also has a very natrual sound but they can get a little harsh on the high end.

Best advice I can give dude is to just pull up some manufacturer websites, use their dealer locator, grab your favorite test CD and head out for some listening.

1996blackmax

That is some very good advice there Mac.

Having said that, sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and try stuff out. The problem lies at times when the gear you want is not available near you. This happened with my component set, and I am very happy with my decision (I did read a good deal about them, as well as listen to some pretty knowledgeagble people). If you are lucky enough to have the gear you want to try near you, do as Mac said and take some of your favorite cd's with you.

Pantocrator

I am not fortunate enough to be able to listen to any of these speakers first hand- I can only listen to Diamonds and Eclipse, JL subs, and Alpine stuff. However, I've read good reviews about Polk, and since this forum has been the most helpful placee I've been to regarding car audio, I'll just trust chance and pick these up. I just need to find an authorized dealer close enough to drive to...

MacLeod

Crutchfield.com

Cardomain.com

Greg Peters

Pantocrator wrote: »

I am not fortunate enough to be able to listen to any of these speakers first hand- I can only listen to Diamonds and Eclipse, JL subs, and Alpine stuff. However, I've read good reviews about Polk, and since this forum has been the most helpful placee I've been to regarding car audio, I'll just trust chance and pick these up. I just need to find an authorized dealer close enough to drive to...

You've tried here: http://www.polkaudio.com/dealerlocator/find.php

I second the concept of getting the best set of component speakers you can afford for up front, forgetting rear speakers for now. The front components plus a subwoofer will give you a great sounding setup you could always add rear fill to later (should you really have to have it).

I also am really happy with the SR components I've purchased- I listen to a wide variety of music in the car, and have found the response from the SRs to work well with anything I choose to play through them. The SR tweeters are smooth, detailed, accurate, and will bring out details you've never before heard in music you know well. The SR mids are nice and neutral, play fairly deep, and blend really well with the tweeters (I'm using the supplied passive crossovers).

As for the JL W6v2 subs, they are very nice. I have a 10" I run sealed, and as far as sound quality I cannot find any fault with it at all. I was considering changing up to a larger format W6v2, but really didn't want to spend the money they're going for these days (I got a close out deal on my 10", from an authorized dealer about to go under). Instead, I recently got a great deal on one of Polk's SR124 DVC subs from a member on our forum (thanks Toxis!) that I'll soon be trying out...have to finish enclosure, get some supplies, and possibly a more powerful amplifier at a later time, then I'll post as to how it worked out, how it compares to the W6v2 I've been accustomed to.


As Mac (and others) suggested, do listen to anything you are able to demo in-person, using some challenging music you're very familiar with. Even if you don't like some of the brands you find locally, it'll give you perspective for when you hear a speaker well suited to your tastes.

Pantocrator

Circuit city is the only one near me, and they don't have Polk car audio in the show room. I had tried that link, it just didn't help much I guess...

BTW, definitely post if you like the Polk or JL better, maybe send a PM my way.

1996blackmax

I totally agree with Greg, get the best speakers you possibly can for the front and just run those for now. If at a later point you want to add rear speakers, you can get some then.

MacLeod

As for Polk vs JL - well Im a huge fan of JL Audio but I still prefer Polk. As proof, I can get INSANE discounts and hook ups on JL Audio thru the SQ team Im on. You see what Im running.

Pantocrator

Polk doesn't seem to be as proud of their subs as they are of their speakers. I had assumed that Polk was highly into speakers and not subs- I guess I'll check them out too.

1996blackmax

Why makes you say that?

Pantocrator

Looking at the site, the Sr6500 has all sorts of tech info on them and the white paper, as well as in depth info. For the subs, they just give normal specs. It just seems IMHO that Polk is prouder of their speakers, or at least that is what they focus on. Kind of how Memphis is all about Amps and JL seems to be all about subs... It might just be me... so don't take it for much.

Greg Peters

Pantocrator wrote: »

Looking at the site, the Sr6500 has all sorts of tech info on them and the white paper, as well as in depth info. For the subs, they just give normal specs. It just seems IMHO that Polk is prouder of their speakers, or at least that is what they focus on. Kind of how Memphis is all about Amps and JL seems to be all about subs... It might just be me... so don't take it for much.

Ta dahhh: http://www.polkaudio.com/downloads/whitepapers/SR_WhitePaper.pdf

Happy reading.

ilikesound

a good read!