Dac
JimBRICK
Posts: 1,543
Do you need to have a high end cdp to hear a difference with an external DAC?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital-to-analog_converter
this is what I was reading about them
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital-to-analog_converter
this is what I was reading about them
2 CHANNEL
Speaker - Klipsch Heresy II
Under construction
Speaker - Klipsch Heresy II
Under construction
Post edited by JimBRICK on
Comments
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NO! The transport of the CDP is used when you connect the digital out of the CDP to the DAC. A good stable transport however is a must.
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where would I look for an affordable external DAC?2 CHANNEL
Speaker - Klipsch Heresy II
Under construction -
where would I look for an affordable external DAC?
What do you mean by affordable? I have Frank's Ultra DAC & it's here to stay for the long haul. The sound is superb & I'm using an Onkyo DX-C390 as the transport (6 disc CD changer). With this DAC, I'll never go back to a stand alone CD player.
http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipment/dac/transcendence_dac.htm"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
You can usually benefit (albeit subtle) by having a better transport, but a good external DAC will do a lot for a budget player for sure.
Jim, keep in mind that external DAC's do subtle things---it's not going to be HUGE change. However, after having a good DAC in the chain for awhile, if you then go back to listening without it, you'll definitely note the differences. DAC's need to be in a system for awhile to really appreciate what it is they are doing---or not doing.
I recently experienced this with my Benchmark. I had it out of the system for about 2 weeks (it's been in the system for 2 years) and I began to notice why I liked it so much. It made the music visceral, punchy, dynamic. The noise floor was non-existant; the sound stage depth/width were 3 dimensional, airy. Cymbals thru the DAC have bell-like clarity, rather than splashy or mottled; a wood stick striking a brass cymbal---that kind of clarity. Not just another instrument throwing some filler content into the mix. Each and every instrument stands on it's own, and is easily identifiable.
Usually what makes a good DAC is not so much the digital portion, as it is the superior analog output section.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2 -
well seeing that this budget system has a total value of about 300 bucks after I get the pioneer elite from andy I want BUUUUUUDGET price LOL
Nakamichi cd 25 bucks
mirage sm-1 speakers 30 bucks
yamaha turntable 17 (I think) bucks (awesome deals cause its like new)
pioneer elite 145 bucks with shipping2 CHANNEL
Speaker - Klipsch Heresy II
Under construction -
IMO, a budget DAC is a waste of time and money. Even with +$1000 DAC's, the improvements are relatively subtle. I doubt any budget DAC, especially mated with a budget transport, is going to show any improvement.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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I have a Theta DAC (got for a little over $300, retail used to be $1000) off audiogon. Use it with Sony SCD-2000ES with good results.
Sounds way better than anything else I've had, but I upgraded my cables, amplifier, and fixed my Thiel Tweeter all in one swoop, so you could say any of those things contributed to the much improved sound I'm getting now.Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850 -
well seeing that this budget system has a total value of about 300 bucks after I get the pioneer elite from andy I want BUUUUUUDGET price LOL
Nakamichi cd 25 bucks
mirage sm-1 speakers 30 bucks
yamaha turntable 17 (I think) bucks (awesome deals cause its like new)
pioneer elite 145 bucks with shipping
Remember, you get what you paid for. You might be better off saving for a while & that will give you better DAC options."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
So... in your opinion would something along the lines of a Benchmark DAC1 coupled with nearly any transport beat a standalone CDP of comparable value? Let's say a Rega Apollo....I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore
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Nakamichi cd 25 bucks
mirage sm-1 speakers 30 bucks
yamaha turntable 17 (I think) bucks (awesome deals cause its like new)
pioneer elite 145 bucks with shipping
Not to be a audiophile a-hole, I would not put out the cash for an external DAC for that system. I'm not trying to come off as a snob, it's just not a good economic choice--Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2 -
zombie boy 2000 wrote: »So... in your opinion would something along the lines of a Benchmark DAC1 coupled with nearly any transport beat a standalone CDP of comparable value? Let's say a Rega Apollo....
It's hard to say---it depends on how you like the "character" of your sound. Stand alone CDP's usually have a easy going sound to them without much seperation of instruments and a flatter/dryer soundstage, well...to my ears. The Benchmark is more articulate and gutsy (for lack of a better word).
The Rega is a tough comparison---people buy Rega because they want a Pacey, easy going sound minus the "digititus" they sound wonderful, but they are not the hallmark of articulation--so again, it's a matter of musical taste.
For me, I wouldn't do digital without the Benchmark DAC..I love it. For $975 and 30 day return policy, it's a no-brainer.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2 -
Jim, you have PM
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Not to be a audiophile a-hole, I would not put out the cash for an external DAC for that system. I'm not trying to come off as a snob, it's just not a good economic choice--
I think you could try it. I sort of agree with Steve to a certain degree. For me I have a similar budget system for my office and computer rig and while I;ve spent a bit more the level of components is similar.
If this is not your main system I don't see why a $300 limit on a DAC is a poor choice. Currently I have this sytem in my office and it sounds amazing for what it is and what I spent.
Computer as a source with a ChainTech soundcard with pure digital output capability (to me this is important to get a direct unadulterated bit stream)$35
Harmonic Technologies Sonic Impact Glass Toslink I/C $50
AMC Dac 8 digital to analog converter retail $329 used $75
Yamaha AX-900U with cd direct function 130 per/ch and a decent integrated back when Yammy actually cared about sound. $100
Polk Audio Monitor 5b's with upgraded x-overs and RD0's $35 for the speakers
and aprox. $150 for the upgrades
Total is about $450. The Dac sounds much nicer than the soundcard and it actually sounds better than most entry level cdp's and dvdp's. I wouldn't use this as a main rig but for a secondary rig it really blows my skirt up as the resolution, dynamics and detail are excellent. So in this case for about $500 you can build a very nice system which I would put up against many entry level systems anyday and this includes a seperate DAC.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I purchased my DAC used. I believe and ya can't hold me to this that new it sold for around $3500 to $4K mark. I didn't pay anywhere nears that amount and this DAC makes redbook CDs for the most part sound like an analog recording. I have the DAC mated with an Oppo 970HD transport. I still haven't heard the full blown CDP even the three tubed CDPs I've heard come close to the sound I get from my combo Oppo/Timbre DAC. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that it can match against a $4 to $6K digital front end but then again that is not what we are talking here.
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And Joe has seemed to read my mind....
I've heard enough glowing things about the Oppo as a transport to be completely straddling the fence in my search for a front-end. Save the ducets and splurge on a DAC or spend the same amount of money on a standalone.
I have had two different DAC's in my rig before and they have both brought improvements to the table -- the Theta ProPrime IIa, in particular. However, both were linked to a Rotel.
I'm just wondering if I had $1000 in cheddar to blow, would it be best served going directly to a DAC to mate with the Oppo I own, or funnel it all into a CDP.
Decisions... decisions.I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore -
zombie boy 2000 wrote: »And Joe has seemed to read my mind....
I've heard enough glowing things about the Oppo as a transport to be completely straddling the fence in my search for a front-end. Save the ducets and splurge on a DAC or spend the same amount of money on a standalone.
I have had two different DAC's in my rig before and they have both brought improvements to the table -- the Theta ProPrime IIa, in particular. However, both were linked to a Rotel.
I'm just wondering if I had $1000 in cheddar to blow, would it be best served going directly to a DAC to mate with the Oppo I own, or funnel it all into a CDP.
Decisions... decisions.
Without a doubt spend the cheddar on a dac, going slightly used will get you the most nachos for your cheddar.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
zombie boy 2000 wrote: »I'm just wondering if I had $1000 in cheddar to blow, would it be best served going directly to a DAC to mate with the Oppo I own, or funnel it all into a CDP.
Decisions... decisions.
Hell yeah, I'd do that. get a good DAC w/the Oppo, later (if you feel the need) upgrade the transport or get something like Cambridge 640. Having a nice DAC on board gives you lots of options...as an example, for awhile I had my Polk XM tuner going into my DAC's "opt" input; DVDP going to "coax"; and my CDP into "AES/EBU". I would switch between the 3 from the front panel.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2 -
I wanted good CD playback but also the ability to listen to SACDs without having two expensive players. So, I got a decent Sony ES SACD player and the DACs. Didn't want a universal cause I don't need multichannel or video out.
So, I've got the best of both worlds, and plenty of flexibility for future upgrades. Both can be resold to get my money back.Stereo Rig: Hales Revelation 3, Musical Fidelity CD-Pre 24, Forte Model 3 amp, Lexicon RT-10 SACD, MMF-5 w/speedbox, Forte Model 2 Phono Pre, Cardas Crosslink, APC H15, URC MX-950, Lovan Stand
Bedroom: Samsung HPR-4252, Toshiba HD-A2, HK 3480, Signal Cable, AQ speaker cable, Totem Dreamcatchers, SVS PB10-NSD, URC MX-850 -
I hate all (external) DAC's.. because they make your CD's sound good.
Blahhhhaaaaaaaaaa! Waaaaaaaaaaaaa!PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin: -
zombie boy 2000 wrote: »And Joe has seemed to read my mind....
I've heard enough glowing things about the Oppo as a transport to be completely straddling the fence in my search for a front-end. Save the ducets and splurge on a DAC or spend the same amount of money on a standalone.
I have had two different DAC's in my rig before and they have both brought improvements to the table -- the Theta ProPrime IIa, in particular. However, both were linked to a Rotel.
I'm just wondering if I had $1000 in cheddar to blow, would it be best served going directly to a DAC to mate with the Oppo I own, or funnel it all into a CDP.
Decisions... decisions.
I had the same issue ZB about 9 months ago. Then the DAC fell into my lap. Once that happened I just kept looking for a transport that was well thought of. I even started quite a few threads back then asking about transports.
There are some here . . . cough . . . RT1, pearsall001 . . .cough who would say it is not hi-rez so it won't compare to an LP but I can tell you this, I couldn't even listen to CD's before this DAC, now, although I still think LPs are king, I can listen to decently made CDs. -
Hell yeah, I'd do that. get a good DAC w/the Oppo, later (if you feel the need) upgrade the transport or get something like Cambridge 640. Having a nice DAC on board gives you lots of options...as an example, for awhile I had my Polk XM tuner going into my DAC's "opt" input; DVDP going to "coax"; and my CDP into "AES/EBU". I would switch between the 3 from the front panel.
Thanks Steve. . .I forgot about the other inputs for XM or Sirius. . . another good reason for an outboard DAC.
