Help with puzzling phase problem

Jack from Indo

When my components are clearly in phase, as determined by the usual test (base sounds clearer and louder, and a single voice track - news podcast - sounds better, deeper and richer), my imaging and overall sound is not nearly as well defined and nice!

When I put my speakers out of phase, I notice an immediate improvement in everything, except that I lose a little bass clarity and volume, as per what you would expect.

But when I switch them back to being in phase, according to the bass and vocal test, which now seem good on their own, the whole sound seems flat, and not nearly as spacious and well imaged.

This is not supposed to happen, from all I've read.

Help! What's up with this?

Jack from Indo

PS I have already tried various combinations of tweets in phase, mids not, and vice versa, so THAT's not the problem. This is really ticking me off. Please help, somebody!

exalted512

Which one are you putting out of phase? Driver or passenger?
-Cody

MacLeod

Bass and volume arent the key indicators of being in phase. The biggest thing you should be looking for is the imaging. If the single voice track is all over the place and impossible to locate, most likely the speakers are out of phase.

If the voice is focused to a single location and you can point to it, then your speakers are in phase.

Just because your speakers are wired in phase doesnt mean theyre working in phase. Certain things like distance, firing angle and so on can affect this.

If the voice sounds more focused and clearer with one of the speakers wired out of phase, then this is correct.

You can also correct phase issues with time alignment but if you dont have TA then this is a good fix.

Jack from Indo

This is not a question about how to set phase. I already got/understand that. Its subtle, and weird.

Cody: I am putting driver side speaker in and out of phase and listening to the difference.

McLeod: I am using an H701, and I am biamped. I do get the voice clear, and not "all over the place" like you say. This is when I am using a radio show voice, no music. I understand what you mean. This is also the phase setting where the bass sounds best So, presumably at that point I am now good to go. Voice good and localized, bass better. (it happens to be the 0 phase setting on the H701 for all speakers)

BUT:

Music played on this setting sounds like it's coming out in mono, not stereo at all. See? When I switch to what should be the "wrong" phase setting, i.e. back bass not as good, voice not localized, I get my stereo image back.

Any suggestions, opinion, etc etc...?

Airplay355

Switch to home audio

MacLeod

I have no idea. I cant imagine what would make the sound come out in mono.

Try tinkering with the time alignment and see if you can get it to work better with that instead of the phase.

Jack from Indo

Question:

I have some test tones but do not know how to use the ones called

"____hz in phase" and
"____hz out of phase".

I read somewhere that when your system in phased right, the "in phase" test tone will sound louder and the "out of phase" test tone will sound softer.

Is this true?

Because when I try this, the "in phase" test tone is always louder then the "out of phase" one is always softer, regardless of the phase setting I use.

Advice?

MacLeod

Some low frequencies may but the key indicator to polarity is image focus. If you hear it coming from everywhere and cant close your eyes and point to it, its out of phase.