Dynamated My 1.2TLs
hearingimpared
Posts: 21,137
No not the whole thing!!!
I Dynamated the MW driver basket spokes and the passive radiator basket spokes.
The project was spread out over two days. It took a total of about 13 hours.
I cut sixty-four 1 1/4" X 2 1/4" pieces that was enough to cover the four spokes on each of the 16 MW drivers.
I cut sixteen 1 1/4" x 5 1/4" strips for the spokes on each of the two PRs.
This innocent sounding task was no picnic. First off the Dynamat is like soft formed tar. Very messy when you have to use your kitchen table to cut it. BTW I was picking out little balls of tar out of mine and the dog's hair (how the heck it got on him is beyond me) and the next day after a shower I was picking pieces off my ear???
I took one driver out at a time put the Dynamat on it and placed it back in. The 1.2 TLs have those allen wrench screws which if you have a long allen wrench that fits in a screwdriver handle you are good to go.
The first 8 and PR I had to use one of those little L shaped allen wrench's . . . I don't recommend it, my hands were cramping up like crazy.
Anyhoo, the holes for the screws in the MDF has little metal threaded tubes. Great idea to get a really tight and airtight seal.
However, if you are an anal, obsessive kook like me and decide to regasket your drivers with the thick sponge gasket from Parts Express expect severe hand cramping and worse case senario, this happened to me three times, the screw pushed the little threaded tube out of the rear of the hole about oh a little over 1/8th to 1/4". You have to take a small needle nose pliers and with your fat hand (at least in my case) hold the threaded tube with the pliers which is very difficult giving the tight space and with the other hand trun a screw in to make a connection with the first few threads. Then with extremely small turns, move the needlenose pliers in that tight space to screw the now collapsing thread tube. Once it is in far enough the gasket which is what is keeping the screw from grabbing the thread in the first place doesn't cause the screw to miss the threads. . . are you still with me???
Okay that said I got all of the right speaker done after about 8 hours. This is primarily because I hadn't realized yet that I should cut all of the Dynamat pieces I need first, instead of taking out a driver, cutting the four pieces needed, applying it and then reinstalling and so on and so on.
The next day took only five hours but would have taken less except for a really stupid thing I did!!!
For some retarded reason, I thought the 1.2 TLs used MW 6511s for the SDA array and MW 6510s for the Stereo array. . . I could have sworn this is what I saw in the right cabinet.
So I'm doing the left cabinet and find an MW 6503 in the highest hole of the stereo array. I panic. AHHH HHHAAAAAA that is why on the test record the right channel is louder than the left channel, even Jesse heard that!!!! So I start bugging Jesse and Ken Swauger and acting like a complete and udder ****.
I had both of them confussed at first. So I start taking out the drivers of the right speaker and they are 6503s also, now I'm getting pist because printed in red on the magnets it says as plain as the nose on my face, "engineered for use in SDA CRS+. Now I've really got Ken going and I'm waiting on Jesse (probably to stop laughing) to make sure that this isn't an aboration.
Well after looking at the schematic and laughing at me more Jesse calls me back and tells me that the 1.2 TLs are supposed to have 6503. I start rattling off that maybe I should replace them with 6510s why because I am retarded. Jesse brings me back to earth by telling me that the 1.2TLs were Polk pinnacle SDA and that I should leave it alone. Okay now my feet are back on the gound.
The good news though is that I found out from Ken that Polk is manufacturing the 6510s again and should have them ready for sale in about four months. See everything happens for a reason.
Okay now the basket spokes are all Dynamated. My hands are swollen, my back hurts like hell, I'm sweating bullets and I call Jesse.
He tells me that I'll be hard pressed to hear any difference when I fire them up. . . HUH??? Okay Joe, I say to myself, remember tweaking is a culmulative effect thing!!!
So I spent about a week and a day listening to all my reference material.
This is what I heard. It sounds like my mid-range instruments and vocals have warmed up. The midrange images seems to be more stable. The treble instruments and vocals seem to have come more forward and are a little louder. When I put my SPL to it I'm showing around 104 DB where before on the same passage I was getting 99 or 100 db.
With my Jazz at the Pawnshop LP the soundstage was way wider, much, much deeper and the mids were much warmer. The depth of my soundstage on this LP and others got as deep as six feet. This is much better than the 3 to 4 feet I'd been hearing.
I don't know, when you think about it, if you stop ringing and resonance from polluting your driver that can explain a warmer, more stable image, right?
I don't know. I know that my rig has never sounded better. There is one thing that I am absolutely sure that has improved. When listening to cellos, that growwwwlll from the strings, like you get from the thick strings of a double base, in much much more pronounced and the decay is longer.
The honest to goodness truth is, I've never been so unsure of the effect of a tweak as I am with this one!!! LOL
If you told me I had to give an answer YES or NO on doing this tweak, I would say YES it is a pain in the butt but my rig sounds better.
Here are some pics.
I Dynamated the MW driver basket spokes and the passive radiator basket spokes.
The project was spread out over two days. It took a total of about 13 hours.
I cut sixty-four 1 1/4" X 2 1/4" pieces that was enough to cover the four spokes on each of the 16 MW drivers.
I cut sixteen 1 1/4" x 5 1/4" strips for the spokes on each of the two PRs.
This innocent sounding task was no picnic. First off the Dynamat is like soft formed tar. Very messy when you have to use your kitchen table to cut it. BTW I was picking out little balls of tar out of mine and the dog's hair (how the heck it got on him is beyond me) and the next day after a shower I was picking pieces off my ear???
I took one driver out at a time put the Dynamat on it and placed it back in. The 1.2 TLs have those allen wrench screws which if you have a long allen wrench that fits in a screwdriver handle you are good to go.
The first 8 and PR I had to use one of those little L shaped allen wrench's . . . I don't recommend it, my hands were cramping up like crazy.
Anyhoo, the holes for the screws in the MDF has little metal threaded tubes. Great idea to get a really tight and airtight seal.
However, if you are an anal, obsessive kook like me and decide to regasket your drivers with the thick sponge gasket from Parts Express expect severe hand cramping and worse case senario, this happened to me three times, the screw pushed the little threaded tube out of the rear of the hole about oh a little over 1/8th to 1/4". You have to take a small needle nose pliers and with your fat hand (at least in my case) hold the threaded tube with the pliers which is very difficult giving the tight space and with the other hand trun a screw in to make a connection with the first few threads. Then with extremely small turns, move the needlenose pliers in that tight space to screw the now collapsing thread tube. Once it is in far enough the gasket which is what is keeping the screw from grabbing the thread in the first place doesn't cause the screw to miss the threads. . . are you still with me???
Okay that said I got all of the right speaker done after about 8 hours. This is primarily because I hadn't realized yet that I should cut all of the Dynamat pieces I need first, instead of taking out a driver, cutting the four pieces needed, applying it and then reinstalling and so on and so on.
The next day took only five hours but would have taken less except for a really stupid thing I did!!!
For some retarded reason, I thought the 1.2 TLs used MW 6511s for the SDA array and MW 6510s for the Stereo array. . . I could have sworn this is what I saw in the right cabinet.
So I'm doing the left cabinet and find an MW 6503 in the highest hole of the stereo array. I panic. AHHH HHHAAAAAA that is why on the test record the right channel is louder than the left channel, even Jesse heard that!!!! So I start bugging Jesse and Ken Swauger and acting like a complete and udder ****.
I had both of them confussed at first. So I start taking out the drivers of the right speaker and they are 6503s also, now I'm getting pist because printed in red on the magnets it says as plain as the nose on my face, "engineered for use in SDA CRS+. Now I've really got Ken going and I'm waiting on Jesse (probably to stop laughing) to make sure that this isn't an aboration.
Well after looking at the schematic and laughing at me more Jesse calls me back and tells me that the 1.2 TLs are supposed to have 6503. I start rattling off that maybe I should replace them with 6510s why because I am retarded. Jesse brings me back to earth by telling me that the 1.2TLs were Polk pinnacle SDA and that I should leave it alone. Okay now my feet are back on the gound.
The good news though is that I found out from Ken that Polk is manufacturing the 6510s again and should have them ready for sale in about four months. See everything happens for a reason.
Okay now the basket spokes are all Dynamated. My hands are swollen, my back hurts like hell, I'm sweating bullets and I call Jesse.
He tells me that I'll be hard pressed to hear any difference when I fire them up. . . HUH??? Okay Joe, I say to myself, remember tweaking is a culmulative effect thing!!!
So I spent about a week and a day listening to all my reference material.
This is what I heard. It sounds like my mid-range instruments and vocals have warmed up. The midrange images seems to be more stable. The treble instruments and vocals seem to have come more forward and are a little louder. When I put my SPL to it I'm showing around 104 DB where before on the same passage I was getting 99 or 100 db.
With my Jazz at the Pawnshop LP the soundstage was way wider, much, much deeper and the mids were much warmer. The depth of my soundstage on this LP and others got as deep as six feet. This is much better than the 3 to 4 feet I'd been hearing.
I don't know, when you think about it, if you stop ringing and resonance from polluting your driver that can explain a warmer, more stable image, right?
I don't know. I know that my rig has never sounded better. There is one thing that I am absolutely sure that has improved. When listening to cellos, that growwwwlll from the strings, like you get from the thick strings of a double base, in much much more pronounced and the decay is longer.
The honest to goodness truth is, I've never been so unsure of the effect of a tweak as I am with this one!!! LOL
If you told me I had to give an answer YES or NO on doing this tweak, I would say YES it is a pain in the butt but my rig sounds better.
Here are some pics.
Post edited by hearingimpared on
Comments
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I don't recall having any of those issues and I'm sure I was done in a few hours.
Seriously, this is one tweak that makes perfect sense and I agree that it's an culmulative effect kinda deal.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
For about all of 2 seconds...
I thought you said...
"Dynamited"
and was about to hang you on a tree.
Cool project.- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
How much Dynamat did you have to buy to do all the drivers?
I wonder if you should do the back side of the crossover plate as well?
I have three full sheets of Dynamat left over. I used one full sheet, well not quite a full sheet, I have a little bit left over of the first sheet.
I don't see how covering the crossover plate could have an affect. Dynamating the MWs & PRs basket spokes kills the ringing and resonance in the driver baskets. -
I bet you solved a small air leak. Thus the increased volume. Dynamat alone shouldn't increase dbs other than at the resonant frequency of the drivers being cancelled out.
Did the L/R balance issue resolve too?HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable
2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable -
Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »"Dynamited"
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA truthfully while I was doing the project I felt like DYNAMITING them!!!! -
Dennis Gardner wrote: »I bet you solved a small air leak. Thus the increased volume. Dynamat alone shouldn't increase dbs other than at the resonant frequency of the drivers being cancelled out.
Did the L/R balance issue resolve too?
Yes, there are no air leaks at all now. There wasn't a balance issue because when I did run the balance test the test tone was dead center. The louder right channel could be the room. I've checked the azimuth and zenith of the cartridge and it is as dead on as I can get it.
What has happened, rather what I am hearing now is a little off the wall. I haven't quite figured this out yet but here it is. When I play LPs the overall sound has become very bright on most albums. My wife describes it as brassy. Now I got to thinking that what I've effectively done, is to kill the ringing and resonance of the MWs & PRs, thus warming up the mids and the midrange imaging has become more stable and detailed but in doing so, the illusion of brightness is now prevelent.
Think of it this way. . . you are in a room with 13 people who are all talking while you are talking to a person across the room. The person you are talking to can hear you but not clearly. All of a sudden the other 12 people stop talking. The person listening to you talk now gets the aural illlusion that you are speaking louder when in fact the roon din has been reduced. This is what may be going on here.
But here is another monkey wrench. I haven't listened to a CD on my rig for quite a while. Last night, I played a Mapleshade CD and it sounded lush and warm and wonderful as Mapleshade CDs usually sound to me. . .
Now I'm thinking maybe I need to load my Dynavector which I never did since I've installed it.
What to do, what to do????
I'm going to check the loading tomorrow and see what it is set to. If memory serves me correctly there is no loading on the cartridge at all. The Dynavector's spec sheet calls for 1000 ohms. My preamp has five different loads the closest is 800 ohms. If that doesn't tone down the illeged brightness then I'll try the next lowest which is 100 ohms. If that doesn't do it, I'll try 47K ohms. Hopefully this will resolve the issue.
I really, really, really don't want to have to remove all those pieces of Dynamat. . . yuck what a frustrating mess that would be. -
If you listen hard enough, there's no telling what you'll hear after an upgrade. Enjoy the fruits of your labor.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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I like the cartridge tweak, especially if your cd frontend is good with the newly dead drivers.HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable
2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable -
hearingimpared wrote: »BTW I was picking out little balls of tar out of mine and the dog's hair (how the heck it got on him is beyond me) and the next day after a shower I was picking pieces off my ear???
That was easily resolved, after speaking with PhylisAnn, you were snoring so badly through the night she slipped the Dynamat under your head hoping to damp the roar, after she did so the pooch jumped up in the bed, you felt something warm pulled doggie to you and she laid down next to your head. There was something about a big wet kiss, but I am not going there.
Rock on Joe.
RT1 -
reeltrouble1 wrote: »That was easily resolved, after speaking with PhylisAnn, you were snoring so badly through the night she slipped the Dynamat under your head hoping to damp the roar, after she did so the pooch jumped up in the bed, you felt something warm pulled doggie to you and she laid down next to your head. There was something about a big wet kiss, but I am not going there.
Rock on Joe.
RT1
Oh you're a regular riot Alice!!! LOL -
Joe cant wait to hear it man. You have made so many imprrovemts since last time its going to be like i never heard it at all.
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We were wondering why your post count was down lately. I still have a bunch of cuts on my fingers from last week when I did the same thing to a cheapy set of speakers. Looks good!
madmaxVinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
Well, I resolved the issue. It was cartridge loading and it is very interesting how this came to be.
First off the load was set to 30 ohms. Before the Dynamat tweak I would listen to most LPs with the volume control set to 11:00 and it sounded just right. After Dynamating, setting the volume to 11:00 sounded way too bright.
Dynavector recommends >1000 ohm load for the 10 x 5. So with that and the rule of thumb being the load should be 5 times the cart impedance which in this case is 150 ohm, it stands to reason that a 750 ohm load would be ideal. My preamp permits 10, 30 , 100, 800 and 47K loads. So I set it to 800 ohms. . . WOW holy smokes way too loud, and killer bright. I couldn't even tame it with the volume set to 8:00. I set it to 47K ohms and almost blew the back wall out.
10 ohms; way to tame. . . 100 ohms Right On!!! but I have to keep the volume a little lower than 10:00.
I find this very interesting that applying Dynamat could have such a dramatic affect that it exposed the disguise of the wrong load on my cartridge. Well I wouldn't say the wrong load. For what was being delivered by the speakers, 30 ohms was the right load but once I got rid of the ringing and resonance of the MWs and & PRs well you know the rest.
Sounds goooooooood!!!
BTW I used Dire Straits; Brothers in Arms, "So Far Away," Jazz at the Pawnshop, "Lady Be Good" and The Police, Ghost in the Machine, "Spirits in a Material World" & "Every Little Thing She Does is Magic." to dial this in. You should hear the bass. . . just everything sounds good. Dave is coming down tomorrow, maybe Louie too, I'll use their ears to compare what I've done here. -
Wow, polk is going to start making 6510's again, thats great news
Jockos -
Holy cow you made them sound better I gotta go buy some Dynomat now !!!! Its alway something aint it ?
Way to go Hearing , what made you decide to do it ? , Just sitting around thinking about one day ?:cool: " He who dies with the most equipment wins Right ? "
Denon 3300 Adcom 535 BBe w/sub out 1 pr 4.6s 2 pr of 4 jrs Recent additions Samsung Lns-4095D LCD, Samsung hd-960 DVD, Monster HT-5000 Power center,HPSA-1000 18" sealed DiY home sub.:D
Black Laquer 1.2tl's w/ upgraded x-overs and Tweets BI-Amped with 2 Carver tfm-35's Knukonceptz 10ga cables -
Well Joe im glad you did it and it worked out for you. Its the pioneers that try new things for us thats really kool. How hard would it have been to remove it all if it didnt work?:eek:
REGARDS SNOWWell, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all -
Deadof_knight wrote: »Holy cow you made them sound better I gotta go buy some Dynomat now !!!! Its alway something aint it ?
Way to go Hearing , what made you decide to do it ? , Just sitting around thinking about one day ?
Nope. . . Jesse dune it!!! He put the bug in my ear!!!
Next up, crossovers, SDA cable, and binding post upgrades!!!! Jesse dune it again!!! -
Well Joe im glad you did it and it worked out for you. Its the pioneers that try new things for us thats really kool. How hard would it have been to remove it all if it didnt work?:eek:
REGARDS SNOW
Jesse was the Danl' Boone not me.
If I had to remove that shite I wouldn't be praising Jesse right now I can guarantee you that. LOL -
I just did the Jazz at the Pawnshop double LPs . . . big, giant, ear-to-ear smile going one here.
I can't wait for Dave to get here tomorrow to hear this. -
I hope you didn't get any of that **** on your hand & then went to take a leak. Ohhhhh, that wouldn't be good :eek:"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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It makes sence I mean its the driver baskets are sheet metal , and that stuff resonates sooo hmmmmm had to work ...Makes me want to do mine now Ive got the time Im just in the wrong place , traveling on the job sitting in a hotel provides plenty of time for piddling.....just no stuff to do it with:cool: " He who dies with the most equipment wins Right ? "
Denon 3300 Adcom 535 BBe w/sub out 1 pr 4.6s 2 pr of 4 jrs Recent additions Samsung Lns-4095D LCD, Samsung hd-960 DVD, Monster HT-5000 Power center,HPSA-1000 18" sealed DiY home sub.:D
Black Laquer 1.2tl's w/ upgraded x-overs and Tweets BI-Amped with 2 Carver tfm-35's Knukonceptz 10ga cables -
hearingimpared wrote: »Well, I resolved the issue. It was cartridge loading
. . . 100 ohms Right On!!!
Sounds goooooooood!!!
This is great news Joe! Glad you had an easy fix and spared Jesse's life LOL!Carl -
How hard would it have been to remove it all if it didnt work?
It's damn near impossible to remove, so be sure you want to put where you want to put it before you put it there.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
OK, gonna do the Dynamat mod on my original set of SDA SRS speakers this week. Have a ton of this stuff left over from an rather extreme installation of a car audio system last Summer. This stuff is definitely a sound deadening solution. Have great expectations ...
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HollowState wrote: »OK, gonna do the Dynamat mod on my original set of SDA SRS speakers this week. Have a ton of this stuff left over from an rather extreme installation of a car audio system last Summer. This stuff is definitely a sound deadening solution. Have great expectations ...
I'm in the process of Dynamatting my SRSs. I've completed only five of the MWs because I haven't had a big chunk of time to just get them all done.
Some things I've learned: 1) As hearingimpaired suggested, cut all the pieces before you start. It makes both the cutting and the application go faster. 2) A round dowel, round pencil or round ballpoint barrel can be helpful in "rolling" the Dynamat smothly on to the spokes in places where it does not flatten so easily -- e.g., up under the magnets. If you have the flat (v. rolled sheets), you may not need this. 3) I found that cutting with a box knife was better than using scissors because the scissor compress the foil backing and the wax paper covering the sticky side, making it more difficult to peel off the wax paper.
Just my experience.Family Room, Innuos Statement streamer (Roon Core) with Morrow Audio USB cable to McIntosh MC 2700 pre with DC2 Digital Audio Module; AQ Sky XLRs to CAT 600.2 dualmono amp, Morrow Elite Speaker Cables to NOLA Baby Grand Reference Gold 3 speakers. Power source for all components: Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One with dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel.
Exercise Room, Innuos Streamer via Cat 6 cable connection to PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ King Cobra RCAs to Perreaux PMF3150 amp (fully restored and upgraded by Jeffrey Jackson, Precision Audio Labs), Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables to SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers and other mods.), Dreadnaught with Supra Rondo 4x2.5 interconnect cables by Vr3 Mods. Power for each component from dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel, except Innuos Statement powered from Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One.
