Sutherland PH-2000 Phono Stage.

cmy330go

Does anyone here have any experience with this piece. I have a friend that is offering me what appears to be great deal on one that is still new in the box.

All I can seem to find is that it used to retail for $6800 and it was at one time ranked Class A by Stereophile.

Anymore info or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

hearingimpared

The only thing I can offer you is the fact that I wish I could afford one. I've read gobs and gobs on these and would imagine they are spectacular performers.

cmy330go

Do you recall where you read about it? I would love to find some detailed info on it.

I was also offered the current Sutherland Ph.D at less than half retail. I might just have to snag them both and sell the one I like least.

hearingimpared

cmy330go wrote: »

Do you recall where you read about it? I would love to find some detailed info on it.

I was also offered the current Sutherland Ph.D at less than half retail. I might just have to snag them both and sell the one I like least.

Yes I read about both in Stereophile and The Abso!ute Sound. There are articles on the web also. . . I can't recall the sites off the top of my head but I think if you google each model you will find the articles. . .I think one was TNT. I'll look over my back issue of Stereophile and TAS to see if I can get you the exact issues.

cmy330go

Thanks. That would be great!

hearingimpared

cmy330go wrote: »

Thanks. That would be great!

Here's one, it's a reveiw on Sutherland's Direct Line Stage preamp. Brian Damkroger talks about the 2000 and others in this review; Stereophile Vol. 29 No 9. I know there are reviews on the PHds I just can't seem to locate them at the moment. As far as TAS goes it made the Editor's choice both the 2000 and the PHd.

I wish I could afford them!

cmy330go

Thanks again!

Truth be told there is no way that I could afford them at retail either.

hearingimpared

cmy330go wrote: »

Thanks again!

Truth be told there is no way that I could afford them at retail either.

One third off the 2000 is still a bit out of my price range at the moment. The PHd however I believe is under $1K right, MSRP.

hearingimpared

The PhD was reviewed in Stereophile May 2005 issue. the Ph-2000 was reviewed by Michael Fremmer in the December 1997 issue of Sterophile. http://www.stereophile.com/phonopreamps/104sutherland/ This link is from the Michael Fremer and Brian Damkroger, January, 2004 Stereophile review.

cmy330go

hearingimpared wrote: »

One third off the 2000 is still a bit out of my price range at the moment. The PHd however I believe is under $1K right, MSRP.

Well fortunately on the PH-2000 I'm looking at about 80% off retail.:eek:

So far I've found the Ph.D to be around $3000 (new), and I can get it at about 60% off.

hearingimpared wrote: »

The PhD was reviewed in Stereophile May 2005 issue. the Ph-2000 was reviewed by Michael Fremmer in the December 1997 issue of Sterophile. http://www.stereophile.com/phonopreamps/104sutherland/ This link is from the Michael Fremer and Brian Damkroger, January, 2004 Stereophile review.

Thanks yet again for all your help!!!!

madmax

I had the acoustech (sutherland) ph1-p for awhile and it was worth every penny spent. Exceptionally clean and perfect sounding. Later traded it off and got a manley steelhead. The steelhead was not quite as neutral but has a great sound and is still relatively quiet.
madmax

cmy330go

OK. Now I have a dilemma. I've really been trying to decide between the two. Up until a few minutes ago I was leaning more toward the new, and still current Ph.D. Mainly because I've been able to read more about it, and I'm a little more comfortable knowing that it is still current.

However after talking to my buddy a few minutes ago, I'm starting to lean the other way. He has personally owned both and is happier with his PH-2000. I expressed a concern with not knowing the age of the unit available, and he informed me that it was one of the last built, and it will come with all original packaging. Then there is the cherry on top....it currently belongs to Ron Sutherland himself. UGH!!!!

I guess maybe that just made my decision for me. Or did it?

cmy330go

madmax wrote: »

I had the acoustech (sutherland) ph1-p for awhile and it was worth every penny spent. Exceptionally clean and perfect sounding. Later traded it off and got a manley steelhead. The steelhead was not quite as neutral but has a great sound and is still relatively quiet.
madmax

What was it about the Manley that drew you away from the Sutherland?

madmax

cmy330go wrote: »

What was it about the Manley that drew you away from the Sutherland?

There were several things:

I have wanted the steelhead from day one because of asthetics, reviews, tubes, ads, ms. manley herself (she actually answers questions and such on the asylum), quality of design and construction, very good quality mc transformers built in, front panel load settings, ability to use it as a stand-alone unit with no main preamp and overall enjoyment of the sound as expressed by other owners.

Why it worked out:

The sound is very full, not as analytical as the acoustech, use of any cartridge known to man is easy, its purple, it gets ooh's and awww's from me everytime I look at it, although I can imagine a better sound I know I will not be able to afford it any time soon, overall bang for the buck.

What if I was forced to keep the acoustech? (keep in mind I'm talking about the ph1-p which is the only one I have experience with)

Eh, the acoustech is better in some ways such as finest detail and cleanlines but worse in others such as not sounding very full and aggressive. I wouldn't be crying had I kept it.

madmax


Edit: BTW, I'd probably go with the unit owned by Ron Sutherland. I personally don't feel that great about the phd for some unknown reason.

hearingimpared

madmax wrote: »

The steelhead was not quite as neutral but has a great sound and is still relatively quiet.
madmax

Chuck I've been having a nagging itch in the middle of my back that I can't reach! I listen to my LPs typically at 11:00 on the volume control. You stated above, "relatively quiet."

If you were to set your volume control to 11:00 or equivelant would you hear a hiss from you speakers?

I know that no phono pre can come dead quiet but my hiss is starting to feel like that back itch. I've spoken with the engineer at Spectral and he said there is not way around it even with the latest and greatest of dedicated phono pre's, that still didn't take the itch away.

EDIT: BTW the hiss immediately goes quiet when the stylus touches down even in between tracks the hiss is hard to detect, but I know it is there.

madmax

I know there is a definite hiss at full volume, needle in the air. I'll have to say I'm not sure if I hear anything at 11:00. I have some recording to do tonite after I fix a fuse in my motor controller, I'll give it a listen and let you know. I've never noticed any hiss with the needle down.
madmax

hearingimpared

PhD was reviewed in The Abso!ute Sound's Issue 144. In this April/May issue 171 page 18 the Ph3D is reviewed. It is $1k and what I've read so far, I may look into it. I'm reading the rest of the review right now.

cmy330go

If that background noise is bothering you, that would probably be a great choice for you. From what I've read the battery operated phono stages offer the blackest background you can find.

hearingimpared

cmy330go wrote: »

If that background noise is bothering you, that would probably be a great choice for you. From what I've read the battery operated phono stages offer the blackest background you can find.

Yes indeed I just read that in Chris Martens review of the Ph3D. That hiss never bothered me before, I always listened past it cause the Spectral is such a great preamp and its phono stage is really awesome. What happened was I procured a (new to me) used VPI power line conditioner to replace the dinosaur VPI PLC I was using. Having no space anywhere in or around my rack, I took my preamp off the Mapleshade Isoblocks I had it on, placed one inch tip toes under it and used sorbothane pods to mount the PLC on top of the preamp.

While cleaning my stylus one day the hiss coming from the bottom tweeter on the left 1.2 tL was not only very present but I heard a backround of shushing, sh, as in the g in genre. I knew right away that it was transformer sound inducing into one of my components and a sure as God made little green apples it was the PLC sitting on top of the preamp. Needless to say far away that went.

I went back to cleaning my stylus and couldn't stop focusing on the now usual hiss. Since then it is driving me nuts. I listen to my lps at 11:00 on the volume control which is pretty loud thus the audible hiss. If I lower to even to just 10:30 the hiss is barely if at all audible.

Like I said, once the stylus touches down, the hiss is gone. But of course sick, demented, anal, audiophile me has to focus on the hiss rather than the music all of a sudden.

ARRRRGGGGHHHHH. I think I might just try a battery phono pre just to see how it sounds. I gotta find a place that will let me do a 30 day money back trial.

Getting back to your situation, the Ph3D is supposed to sound really good. However if you can get its big brother the PhD for the same price then I don't see why you wouldn't jump on that. From all I've read and can remember the PhD is awesome to the reviewers. I wish I could tell you that I've experienced the Sutherlands but I can't.

EDIT: the only thing I didn't like that I read the Ph3D review was that the Ph3d used op-amps instead of the discrete low-noise transistors that the PhD uses. I'm not a big fan of op-amps.

cmy330go

I've also heard a number of good comments about the Ph3D. One person claimed he actually replaced his Ph.D with the Ph3D due to financial reasons, but said the Ph3D had just as quite a background as the Ph.D. He just said that it lacked a little "Magic". I think he was also the one that claimed it offered 80% of the performance of the Ph.D at 1/3 the price.

Anyway....ElusiveDisc is offering a 30 money-back guarantee on the Ph3D. (**LINK**)

Let us know if you decide to try it out.

madmax

Hate to de-rail again but Hearing Impaired, I checked my hiss level last night. At around 2:30 the hiss becomes noticable with the needle in the air. At full volume at the end of a record (needle riding the end groove) I cannot detect any hiss. I don't have a lot of gain though. Maybe 2/3 of the CD gain. PM me your address and I'll send you a CD copy of a nice quiet LP I recorded and you can hear for yourself.
madmax

cmy330go

Well I officially pulled the trigger on both of them. I should have them in just over a week. I can't wait to try them out. My only fear is that I will want to keep both.

madmax

So which two are you getting? You are going to have to let them both break in a little to know what you have. I'd get them both started immediately. The other thing is loading is going to keep you frustrated. Glad its not me trying to decide!

hearingimpared

cmy330go wrote: »

Well I officially pulled the trigger on both of them. I should have them in just over a week. I can't wait to try them out. My only fear is that I will want to keep both.

\\\


I can always help you out of that situation.

PS: Max, after setting the load correctly, by ear of course, I find that the hiss immediately becomes signal when the stylus hits the groove. Thanks for checking yours out for me.

cmy330go

madmax wrote: »

So which two are you getting? You are going to have to let them both break in a little to know what you have. I'd get them both started immediately. The other thing is loading is going to keep you frustrated. Glad its not me trying to decide!

I'm getting the PH-2000 and the Ph.D.

It's my understanding that the Ph.D is already broken in from being used at the office. However it sounds as though the PH-2000 has little or no time on it.

In regards to loading being frustrating....What do you mean? I have to admit that this is going to be my first phono stage to offer such adjustments. I really haven't even had any time to do research on the proper way to set it up. I did a quick search of the forum but was unable to find any threads on the topic. If you have any advise to offer, I'm all ears (or eyes?).

hearingimpared wrote: »

I can always help you out of that situation.

I'm sure you can.:cool:

hearingimpared

cmy330go wrote: »

I'm getting the PH-2000 and the Ph.D.

It's my understanding that the Ph.D is already broken in from being used at the office. However it sounds as though the PH-2000 has little or no time on it.

In regards to loading being frustrating....What do you mean? I have to admit that this is going to be my first phono stage to offer such adjustments. I really haven't even had any time to do research on the proper way to set it up. I did a quick search of the forum but was unable to find any threads on the topic. If you have any advise to offer, I'm all ears (or eyes?).



I'm sure you can.:cool:

There is usually a set of dip switches or a dial setting. On my pre there are two dip switch banks; one for the left channel, one for the right. Each dip switch has four little switches. Switch 1 = 10 ohms, Switch 2 = 30 ohms, Switch 3 = 100 ohms, Switch 4 = 800 ohms with all the switches in the off position it = 47K ohms. It also has a blank little spot at the end of the banks where I can put the leads to a custom rated resistor.

My Dynavector cartridge manufacturer recommended a load of >1000k ohms but I found that 100 ohms sounds best. Really the only way to find which actually sounds best is to try the different settings. It really is easy but if you are not used to such things it can be intimidating. I actually had a record playing when I would try changing the load by pressing the switches.

The instruction manuals are pretty clear on had to load your cartridge.

cmy330go

Got them both!! Yipee!! Not sure how soon I'll get some listening time, but I'll be sure to report back here.

hearingimpared

cmy330go wrote: »

Got them both!! Yipee!! Not sure how soon I'll get some listening time, but I'll be sure to report back here.

I'm so green with envy!!!:D Have fun!!!

engtaz

Looking forward to read your reviews.

cmy330go

Post ****.:rolleyes: