Why haven't the tube makers hit a homerun in decades?

candyliquor35m
candyliquor35m Posts: 2,267
edited May 2007 in 2 Channel Audio
Don't get me wrong. The current production tubes do the job but so far when I've replaced them with old stock tubes, I shake my head and think "that's the kind of tube sound I'm looking for".

I know it's all about personal taste as well but why is it so hard to duplicate a old stock mullard or siemens or telefunken or the others? Is it materials, workmanship, know how, luck or all of the above.

Edit: I forgot the time the telefunkens didn't work out in my Jolida JD100 cdp so I guess some of it is synergy as well but I still ended up putting the telefunkens in the amp to offset the groove tubes in the Jolida.
Post edited by candyliquor35m on
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  • dragon1952
    dragon1952 Posts: 4,899
    edited May 2007
    candyliquor35m wrote: »
    I know it's all about personal taste as well but why is it so hard to duplicate a old stock mullard or siemens or telefunken or the others? Is it materials, workmanship, know how, luck or all of the above.

    Yeah, materials and workmanship. Evidently the tube making countries that made them for so long passed the trade along between generations. The infrastructure no longer exists although I guess some of the machinery has been re-utilized or recreated.
    Most of the tube equipment now days is optimized or designed for todays tubes. I'm sure, the telefunkens would be better in the vintage gear but not necessarily better in todays. I guess there are always exceptions. Personally I think a lot of it is hype and/or lore. The vintage tubes can definitely sound different but that doesn't always make them better. It's probably more to do with a particular tube matching someone's tastes....I don't know. Regardless, the workmanship, materials and infrastructure were no doubt better back then.
    2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Audioquest Diamond USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,554
    edited May 2007
    Personally, I think Ei hit a few homers with their 12AX7's and 6CA7's. Too bad they were run out of business.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • W WALDECKER
    W WALDECKER Posts: 900
    edited May 2007
    F1nut wrote: »
    Personally, I think Ei hit a few homers with their 12AX7's and 6CA7's. Too bad they were run out of business.
    I agree,i would also add thier Elite 6DJ8s and the earlier KT90s to the list as well. thanks....WCW III
    Rogue Audio stereo 100 tube amplifier - Lector Zoe preamplifier with 6H30 pi's
    .Audience AU24SE speaker and ic cables- Chord Qutest DAC - Black Cat Silverstar II 75ohm digital cable-Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature system with large bass cabinets to accommodate 10" Seas magnesium woofers.2xhmpsuownoj.jpg
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited May 2007
    So what was the final story on EH? Government shut it down,or strong armed to sell?
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited May 2007
    I think "vintage" tubes are tremendously overhyped. Although my tube experience is limited, the handful of vintage tubes I tried didn't sound "better" than the newer tubes.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited May 2007
    I bought a bunch of Chinese and Russian New 6NS7 Tubes for comparison with my NOS. So far nothing can beat the NOS Sylvania 6SN7GTA. The tubes may be $80 a pair vs $20 - $40 a pair, but the sound is a hundred times better. The New tubes are often muddy sounding across the board. However, the new tubes are extrmely quiet. I have to use Rothwell Inline Attenuators to eliminate audible hiss with my NOS.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited May 2007
    The EH tubes were a homerun for sure!
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,554
    edited May 2007
    george daniel wrote: »
    So what was the final story on EH? Government shut it down,or strong armed to sell?

    EH is still in business as far as I know. Ei was run out of business by the government.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    edited May 2007
    Ei was aquired recently by Westinghouse, no?
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
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  • W WALDECKER
    W WALDECKER Posts: 900
    edited May 2007
    Halo wrote: »
    Ei was aquired recently by Westinghouse, no?
    Yes!
    Rogue Audio stereo 100 tube amplifier - Lector Zoe preamplifier with 6H30 pi's
    .Audience AU24SE speaker and ic cables- Chord Qutest DAC - Black Cat Silverstar II 75ohm digital cable-Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature system with large bass cabinets to accommodate 10" Seas magnesium woofers.2xhmpsuownoj.jpg
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,802
    edited May 2007
    I am quite happy, dollar for dollar, with JJ EL84's in my EICO HF-81.
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited May 2007
    I am going with Antony from MF, I think tube rolliing is overrated, actually, he despises tube rolling so MF hard wires their stuff. Not to say I do not have my favorites, but the differences are subtle, maybe one is just a bit smoother or deeper digging, at least that is my experience. I would think there must be some junk tubes made somewhere but I have never really heard one in my tube gear. Oh yea, Tubes Rule.

    RT1
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited May 2007
    I tend to agree....I view tube rolling sort of like swapping gear in and out. It has it's cool factor (and I've done more than my share of it) but after awhile it's counterproductive. Plug it in, listen to the music.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited May 2007
    Tube rolling is predominately for newbies, and there is nothing wrong with it. Once you have established a baseline, its not rocket science. You should roll, what you know sounds good on your rig.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited May 2007
    The only thing I can roll in my rig are sorbothane globes!!!:D :p
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  • 285exp
    285exp Posts: 43
    edited May 2007
    Probably for the same reason that Stanley Steamer hasn't made any new model steam cars.
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  • Orbie
    Orbie Posts: 4
    edited May 2007
    I am a HUGE McIntosh fanboy. I went to college in Binghamton, NY (where McIntosh's are built), and have toured their facility a few times. The level of craftsmanship, engineering, and quality that go into those amps is incredible.

    Granted...you'll pay for them. But if it's worth it to you...McIntosh won't disappoint.
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