Bonds homerun quest

jdhdiggs

Shizelbs wrote: »

Is there anyone else out there besides me that doesn't think steroids use is nearly as big of a deal as everyone is making it out to be?

The average baseball player is plenty strong enough to hit a baseball hard enough to drive it out of the park. Hell, I am. Most of us are. Its just far more important to make proper contact with the ball, at the right angle, with enough bat speed. You could be Hercules, but unless you make proper contact, you aren't going to hit many homeruns.

To a point it is true. If you don't make solid contact, you're screwed. That said, steroids would allow you to use a heavier bat and generate a higher swing speed. Both are very important in power hitting. Additionally, the higher swing speed lets you see the pitch a split second longer before committing allowing better pitch selection and therefore contact. Also, you have a better chance of stopping a swing on a bad pitch. In such a sport where 2' makes the difference of a home run or an out, any of those things can be a huge difference maker.

marker

At least Aaron, Maris, Ruth, etc. didn't have to shoot up to accomplish what they did.

AndyGwis

Don't steroid cause muscles to grow too large for a person's frame and put strain on related body parts (tendons, joints, etc.)? That's why roider's are always getting sidelined with minor injuries.

Barry has stayed healthy, so I don't know exactly what that means. Maybe he is just a smarter used of performance enhancers. It seems like others go on roids and then are hurt just couple years later. Look at Eric Gagne.

AndyGwis

marker wrote: »

At least Aaron, Maris, Ruth, etc. didn't have to shoot up to accomplish what they did.

neither did the cheese dick pitchers throwing meat balls over the plate to them back in those days

dragon1952

marker wrote: »

At least Aaron, Maris, Ruth, etc. didn't have to shoot up to accomplish what they did.

Actually, the truth is we don't know what they might have done. The media had a habit of protecting people in the public eye back then...politicians, actors, athletes. Totally the opposite today with the 'expose', everyone deserves to know everything about everybody attitude.

Demiurge

More and more rationalizaton....unbelievable.

Whether you think steroids are good or bad isn't the argument. It's the fact Barry Bonds cheated to get where he is. He's not the only one that got heat, it's kept McGwire out of the HoF at this point, and it's going to keep out others.

I'm sure a lot of you smoked a little reefer when you were younger, maybe some of you still do. Just because it's going on all the time and some aren't ever caught doesn't mean we turn our backs to the problem and act like it's no big deal. Bonds, McGwire, Giambi -- all juiced up more than anyone else in the league. It's almost undeniable.

I guess trying to maintain the integrity of our sports is a bad thing now.

tommyboy

Demiurge wrote: »

.

I'm sure a lot of you smoked a little reefer when you were younger, maybe some of you still do. Just because it's going on all the time and some aren't ever caught doesn't mean we turn our backs to the problem and act like it's no big deal. Bonds, McGwire, Giambi -- all juiced up more than anyone else in the league. It's almost undeniable.

But at least steroids makes you stronger, all weed does is give you the munchies and you become a big fat ****.:p

You know that most baseball players have been taking steroids at least once in their lives. Just because two players (mcgwire and bonds) are very good at what they do doesn't mean they should be the only ones going down. If you really wanted this steroid thing to go into effect, I don't think you would be watching any baseball games right now;) .

If baseball owners truly wanted to punish their players for steroid use, they would have kicked barry bonds out of the league when he got caught (and of course denied it with the lame excuse he made:rolleyes: ). I don't think a fair punishment would be just to not let him into the hall of fame or get a record. Thats just me.

Shizelbs

jdhdiggs wrote: »

To a point it is true. If you don't make solid contact, you're screwed. That said, steroids would allow you to use a heavier bat and generate a higher swing speed. Both are very important in power hitting. Additionally, the higher swing speed lets you see the pitch a split second longer before committing allowing better pitch selection and therefore contact. Also, you have a better chance of stopping a swing on a bad pitch. In such a sport where 2' makes the difference of a home run or an out, any of those things can be a huge difference maker.

Yes, greater strength will allow for easier manipulation of the bat. IMO, the strength necessary to move the bat with such ease is going to acquired from just playing 162 games and taking BP before each game.

And the most efficient way to maximize swing/bat head speed is going to be from proper mechanics. Strength is necessary, but its more of a finesse activity. Thats my opinion anyways.

Shizelbs

AndyGwis wrote: »

Don't steroid cause muscles to grow too large for a person's frame and put strain on related body parts (tendons, joints, etc.)? That's why roider's are always getting sidelined with minor injuries.

Barry has stayed healthy, so I don't know exactly what that means.

You're right, but it doesn't mean anything. No conclusion can be drawn from that evidence.

schwarcw

dragon1952 wrote: »

I don't think he's nearly as bad a guy as they would like us to believe and the amount of crap he's had to put up with from the press, go Barry!!!

I disagree! Bonds is a hell of a baseball player, one of the best ever. But he is an **** of a human being.

Ten years ago he participated in the tour of Japan that MLB does after the World Series. At the end of the tour, the Japanese baseball commisioner gave each of the MLB players a medal, a symbol of goodwill for their participation. Bonds got pissed, threw the medal on the floor, laughed and walked out of the ceremony.

The press has busted his balls because he has always been arrogant, rude and disrespectful to everyone. He's got himself to blame for starting the war with the press. When he was in Pittsburgh, there was an incident in Spring training (caught on film) where the Pirate Manager Jim Leyland had to be restrained by his coaches from physically attacking Bonds for something Barry said to him. The list is a mile long, cheating on his wife, etc. etc. A good ball player, a lousy person.

Demiurge

tommyboy wrote: »

You know that most baseball players have been taking steroids at least once in their lives. Just because two players (mcgwire and bonds) are very good at what they do doesn't mean they should be the only ones going down. If you really wanted this steroid thing to go into effect, I don't think you would be watching any baseball games right now;)

No, I don't know that. Is there a cite for this fact/statement?

This is exactly the problem with cheaters, they destroy the credibility of everyone else. All the more reason Bonds should have been run out on a rail long ago. Bonds will get the record, but I'm sure most fans will see it for what it is -- a complete and utter sham.

Shizelbs

Thats the way I will look at it.

Also, I think Ichiro's single season hit record should not be acknowledged. If anyone is, he is certainly on steroids.

dragon1952

Let's just say it was proven he only took steroids the 2001 year where he hit 70+. Would you just throw out the other 700? :rolleyes:
You know, another thing that irks me about this is the double standard between football and baseball regarding steroids. Anyone care to comment on that?
Another thing, amphetimines have been mentioned several times. I would bet half the players from the mid-sixties thru the 70's took them.

Systems

schwarcw wrote: »

I disagree! Bonds is a hell of a baseball player, one of the best ever. But he is an **** of a human being.

Ten years ago he participated in the tour of Japan that MLB does after the World Series. At the end of the tour, the Japanese baseball commisioner gave each of the MLB players a medal, a symbol of goodwill for their participation. Bonds got pissed, threw the medal on the floor, laughed and walked out of the ceremony.

The press has busted his balls because he has always been arrogant, rude and disrespectful to everyone. He's got himself to blame for starting the war with the press. When he was in Pittsburgh, there was an incident in Spring training (caught on film) where the Pirate Manager Jim Leyland had to be restrained by his coaches from physically attacking Bonds for something Barry said to him. The list is a mile long, cheating on his wife, etc. etc. A good ball player, a lousy person.

Well put.The guy is a talent for sure but he is one of the biggest buttholes to play the game.

tommyboy

schwarcw wrote: »

I disagree! Bonds is a hell of a baseball player, one of the best ever. But he is an **** of a human being.

I was too young(or didn't care, I'm really not sure:p ) to remember bonds playing in pittsburgh. But everyone I know who remembers him here all say the same thing, He is a big ****.

MacLeod

I say let him have his record. And at the award ceremony, his drug dealer should get the award. Not him.

markmarc

It's all about cheating, nothing more, nothing less. Bonds cheated, therefore his numbers will be questioned. Too bad in a way, as his compact, upright, plate crowding technique is devasting. He didn't need the roids, he needed dedication to a natural fitness plan. Instead, he took the easy way out. I'm betting within 20 years he has a massive health problem that will be linked back to his usage.

schwarcw

Barry hit no. 744 today. Eleven to go.

jmwest1970

I say let 'em juice up. Baseball needed the juicers to recover from the effects of the last strike/lockout/whatever it was. MLB ratings and attendance were way down before Big Mac and Sammy chased Maris' record. Now Barry is doing his part by breaking Aaron's record...unless he goes to jail first.

unbridled_id

I remember that Pittsburgh outfield... Bonds, Bonilla, and Van Slyke, not too shabby. I don't care for Bonds as a human being and I do believe he was doped up as were many others, remember Palmerio waving his finger.

kingkip

Barry sucks, plain and simple. A horrible person and a cheater to boot. If we only took away the 70 in 2001 he would have 674 and this would not be as big an issue. So why do people keep bringing that up like it validates a cheater?