The always/never list for external amps

cnjvh

I'm starting the search for external amplification. I will be using the Denon 3805 as the pre/pro and it will be driving the RTi line (12's in the front, 8's in the back, CSi5 center).

I'm looking for solid state, not tube. I appreciate the warmth of tubes but I'm not wanting the maintenance and I'd always be wondering if it's my tubes if I hear something not quite right. I'd be replacing the things every month out of paranoia

So on the always/never list:

1. When shopping for an amp, always make sure it has ____________ .

2. Never buy an amp that has _____________ .

The bonus opinion questions:

3. In your experience, is it better to buy multiple mono/stereo amps, one big 7channel amp, or mix it up? It seems to me multiple amps would be better just for versatility and each amp's power supply having less load (although one would hope a properly designed 7 channel amp would account for this in the power supply design).

4. Not going to ask "which is best", I just need a list of known quality manufacturers that bear investigation. I can do my own legwork from there.


BTW, I know there's no such thing as always and never.

Thanks!!

zombie boy 2000

For some reason I have that Heatwave song Always and Forever in my head now.

My first bit of advise would be to buy used if you feel you're the type of person to nitpick and are prone to dissatisfaction. No need to be tossing money down the proverbial well in your search.

dudeinaroom

Just do some looking around in the forums and you will see a slew of names. Read some of the signatures. If you look hard enough you will even find links to sites that have quite a bit of mid- to hifi offerings. good luck, I'm sure some one will chime in and share there wisdom.

Later,
dude

Ricardo

Lots of good options available out there (Rotel, Outlaw, Adcom, etc). There is one thing that at least for me would be in the "always" list, and that is to get an amp that has 12v triggers or auto on when detecting a signal coming from the pre. I'd hate to have to turn on/off the amp manually (yes, I am spoiled in this era of universal remotes )

cnjvh

What is meant by the different classes (A/B/D etc.)?

cfrizz

I personally would make sure to get a minimum of 200wpc or more.
I would personally get a multichannel 5-7 amp just to have 1 box & outlet to worry about. Also, amps are pretty bullet proof as far as problems go.

Because of that I would look at Audiogon for used amps. I also agree with the auto on feature.

Adcom, Rotel, Parasound, Outlaw, Sunfire, the list goes on & on.

Early B.

Most important question -- what's your budget?

Also, the answers to your questions partly depends on how you use your system. For instance, if you use your HT system for 2-channel music playback, I'd suggest focusing on the best 2-channel amp you can buy and let the Denon power the rest of your speakers.

Give us more details of your listening habits and what you hope to achieve.

cnjvh

The target budget would be around 2500 but if that is unrealistically low I will adjust upwards as required.

Listening habits are 7.1 (PLIIx) for movies and 2 channel direct mode for music.

Wouldn't combining the Denon's amps with external amps cause "different" sound between the channels? Although I suppose the difference would be convered by the fact that my mains are different than my surrounds anyway.

mldennison

cnjvh wrote: »

Wouldn't combining the Denon's amps with external amps cause "different" sound between the channels? Although I suppose the difference would be convered by the fact that my mains are different than my surrounds anyway.

i doubt that you will notice any sort of difference. since the front soundstage is definatly the most important, i agree with early, focus on a good 2/3 channel amp for the fronts and leave the denon for the surrounds. that is what i am doing and i like the results.

dudeinaroom

I've got a Denon AVR 785(silver version of the 1905) It pushes 80 watts/ch at 8 ohms which my center and surrounds are, and I've got an Adcom gfa 555 that pushes 325 at 4 ohms which my mains are. Huge power difference but as long as you go threw and recalibrate your speaker levels all will be fine.

Ricardo

Based on the speakers you have as surrounds and your budget, I'd get amplification for all channels. Could be one (7) or two (2+5).

aaharvel

CNJVH, get a 7channel amp and bi-amp the 12's. The three chanels remaining can feed power to the 8's and 5.

You can start with Outlaw, Adcom, Parasound, B&K.

Ricardo

I think he has two pairs of 8's (listens to 7.1).

cfrizz

You will notice a difference in the volume & clarity of the back speakers. They enjoy the benefits of separate amplification just like the front stage does. It is especially important since you listen in 7.1, and would make a HUGE difference for multichannel sacd's & dvd-a's.

Darkside Of The Moon is incredible in 5.1 channels!:D

cnjvh wrote: »

The target budget would be around 2500 but if that is unrealistically low I will adjust upwards as required.

Listening habits are 7.1 (PLIIx) for movies and 2 channel direct mode for music.

Wouldn't combining the Denon's amps with external amps cause "different" sound between the channels? Although I suppose the difference would be convered by the fact that my mains are different than my surrounds anyway.

Early B.

With a budget of $2,500, sell the Denon and buy a pre/pro and separate 7 channel amp. Done.

tonyb

Early B. wrote: »

With a budget of $2,500, sell the Denon and buy a pre/pro and separate 7 channel amp. Done.

+1 on that idea bro.

cnjvh

Is the Denon really that poor as a pre/pro?

cnjvh

Actually having thought about I think I'd like to do the pre/pro upgrade as a separate step. This would allow for a larger budget for both upgrades and allow pre/pros that decode TrueHD and DTS-HD to become available and come down in price.

engtaz

no, Your Denon is fine. You have all the audio connections you need. Use it as a pre pro and add external amps as funds come available. Fronts and Center are the main speakers in HT amplify accordantly.

cstpeter

Outlaw B-Stock:

https://www.outlawaudio.com/mofcart/bstock.html

Model 970 7.1 Pre/pro: $649
Model 7700 7 x 200W amp: $1979

Word.

cnjvh

That 7700 only shows a freq. response of 20Hz to 20KHz? That doesn't sound right...could it drive full range mains properly only going down to 20Hz? Granted thats lower than most music but is it normal for an amp to only go down to 20? Or is that just the measured range?

engtaz

Yes, it usually means the Flat curve response before drop off.

TN_Polk_Lover

cnjvh wrote: »

What is meant by the different classes (A/B/D etc.)?

This is probably not the best description. Class A has the best "purest" sound but it requires a higher bias current and therefore the amp runs hot all the time, even when not playing music.

Class B runs cooler and takes less power, but does not sound as good as class A. There are many amp designs that combine both and are called AB or by some other designation.

I think that class D is a digital design. I don't know too much about these other than they are supposed to be highly efficient (use much less electricity from the outlet to produce the same wattage.)

cnjvh

Thanks for the info. Just from the specs I've started to read, most audio amps are AB at this time. I've seen a few D's, but they're much newer models. It seems D is a newer application for audio whereas AB is much more "tried and true".

mulveling

Also, there's what's called "High bias" class AB, which typically runs the first few or several Watts in class A and anything after that runs in class AB. For example, the Parasound Halo A21 is rated for 250 Watts (into 8 ohms), the first 8 of which run in class A. The higher-end JC-1 is rated for 400 Watts and the first 20 are class A. These amps, when properly designed, sound VERY good, since most of the audio signal is contained in those first few Watts until you push it to very LOUD volume levels. I also have a well designed tube headphone amp that operates in this manner; it sounds phenomenal. These amps all run very HOT and are quite inefficient; but it's well worth the energy waste

1. When shopping for an amp, always make sure it has panache (big-**** heatsinks are an acceptable substitute).

2. Never buy an amp that has a hardwired power cord.

I keed, I keed