Damage Possible?

Sansui

A few nights ago I watched a movie with the volume set up higher than I normally have it set to. I was surprised at the sounds I was missing at the lower volume which I usually watch movies at. I didn't have it set to "ear bleed" level but it was louder than (my) normal listening level. My set up is a Denon 887, RM6801 and RM6901 speakers, and a DVD player.

I've read here that the distortion damages speakers not the wattage. Should I be worried about damaging my speakers or does the Denon put out enough "clean power" (or whatever it is) so I don't have to worry?

Is distortion easy to hear or does one only hear it after a speaker is blown? If a speaker is blown will it be noticable at lower volumes?

I don't detect any problems with my speakers right now. I'd just like to be aware of possible problems (if any).

engtaz

Are you saying, that after watching the movie that the speakers are now missing something or that you heard something clearer at higher volume? Your Denon should not be a problem. I would think that the speakers are the difference.

george daniel

Just be careful with the volume control,if you "clip", you may smoke something in your speaks.;)

Sansui

engtaz wrote: »

Are you saying, that after watching the movie that the speakers are now missing something or that you heard something clearer at higher volume? Your Denon should not be a problem. I would think that the speakers are the difference.

I'm hearing sounds in the movie track that were supposed to be there that I didn't hear at a lower volume. Nothing "weird".

Sansui

george daniel wrote: »

Just be careful with the volume control,if you "clip", you may smoke something in your speaks.;)

And what causes that? Distortion or too much power that the amp has avalilable? I thought the speakers only took the power they need from the amp and if the amp doesn't have enough to give then the distortion comes into play.

bknauss

Clipping is just another name for distortion. The sine waves output turn into square looking waves and it looks like the top and bottom have been "clipped".

jakelm

I think you were watching movies too low to begin with, if you were missing some of the soundtrack.

Sansui

jakelm wrote: »

I think you were watching movies too low to begin with, if you were missing some of the soundtrack.

I began to wonder that myself. It was "little sounds" that I started hearing. It was like if someone shut a refridge door closed hard I would be able to hear the rattle of bottles in it instead of just the door closing with the volume up.

What specs (in speaker and amp manuals) should I look at to see if my amp can blow my speakers if the volume was turned up too much? Shouldn't they tell me? Not that I'd turn it up that loud, don't want to do a "try and cry" test if they blow. I guess I don't understand the relationship between volume and what the speakers take or demand(?). Still trying to learn here.

Sansui

bknauss wrote: »

Clipping is just another name for distortion. The sine waves output turn into square looking waves and it looks like the top and bottom have been "clipped".

That part I now understand. What causes the clipping? The amp or the speakers not being able to handle the volume? Or am I still missing "something"?

F1nut

The amp sends out the sine waves to the speaker to reproduce. If the sine waves clip (turn into square looking waves) that is pure distortion being sent to your speakers, which they don't like.

If the sound you're hearing becomes harsh, compressed and edgy, that's a damn good sign it's time to turn it down. In short, trust your ears, specs aren't going to tell you, too many variables. One rule of thumb, lower powered gear will damage your speakers faster than having a 500 wpc amp driving speakers that are only rated to handle 200 watts max.

The reason you couldn't hear the finer details at lower volume levels is because your system doesn't have enough resolution.

McLoki

F1nut wrote: »

The reason you couldn't hear the finer details at lower volume levels is because your system does have enough resolution.

Or potentially your background noise in your house was loud enough to mask them. If your system is calibrated with DVE or AVIA, you should be able to go to -20 with no problem, -15 depeding on your AVR. Without an amp I would not go much louder than that unless you are familiar with the movie and know there are no big explosions coming up. (i.e. - if you watch War of the Worlds for the first time at -10 you may be purchasing some new speakers)

Of course that is based on many assumptions on my part, but should be pretty close. at -20 you should be able to hear most of the details and still carry on a conversation while the movie is going on. At -15, you would have to speak up to talk to someone sitting near you.

Either way - the best advice was to trust your ears. If something starts to sound wrong, turn it down first and then try and figure out was went wrong. Don't listen more first to decide if there is really a problem and then try to figure out what is going on.

Michael

Sansui

F1nut wrote: »

The amp sends out the sine waves to the speaker to reproduce. If the sine waves clip (turn into square looking waves) that is pure distortion being sent to your speakers, which they don't like.

If the sound you're hearing becomes harsh, compressed and edgy, that's a damn good sign it's time to turn it down. In short, trust your ears, specs aren't going to tell you, too many variables. One rule of thumb, lower powered gear will damage your speakers faster than having a 500 wpc amp driving speakers that are only rated to handle 200 watts max.

Thanks for the info! So if my amp has 100 wpc and my speakers can handle up to 125 watts max then I should be careful not to *really* crank the volume up?

The reason you couldn't hear the finer details at lower volume levels is because your system does have enough resolution.

Oh great! Never saw this word before on the forum. Resolution means?

engtaz

Your system does not have the ump (watts) to bring out the details at lower volumes.

F1nut

Quote:
The reason you couldn't hear the finer details at lower volume levels is because your system does have enough resolution.

Geez, I didn't get that sentence out correctly. Should read, doesn't have enough resolution. Anyway, Engtaz nailed the answer.

Thanks for the info! So if my amp has 100 wpc and my speakers can handle up to 125 watts max then I should be careful not to *really* crank the volume up?

Almost every system has it's limits, so learn what they are and stay within those parameters.

jakelm

Cant really say "trust your ears". My buddy plays his music so loud there is nothing but distortion and he thinks it sounds great. Then he wonders why he has to change speakers every month. So not everyone can spot clipping or distortion.

The best way, if you dont trust your ears, is to get a radio shack analog sound preasure meter. Put it on 90 dbs, Run pink noise or "test" tones on your system. Turn up the volume until the meter reads zero at 90dbs. Look at your setting on the avr, and dont go any higher than that when watching a movie.

Sansui

engtaz wrote: »

Your system does not have the ump (watts) to bring out the details at lower volumes.

Understood...

Sansui

F1nut wrote: »

Almost every system has it's limits, so learn what they are and stay within those parameters.

Thanks for the advice. I'll do that.

Sansui

jakelm wrote: »

The best way, if you dont trust your ears, is to get a radio shack analog sound preasure meter.

My son got me a digital one for X-mas so I'll use that. When I first read your sentence I thought it read "sound pleasure meter".

Put it on 90 dbs, Run pink noise or "test" tones on your system. Turn up the volume until the meter reads zero at 90dbs. Look at your setting on the avr, and dont go any higher than that when watching a movie.

Thanks for the tip! I'll do that! When I set my speakers using 80dbs it was louder than I'd play movies (or music) at. At least now I'll know how loud I can put the volume without causing any damage.

Thanks for the info!!