Can some one explain this?

bikezappa

Carriles plotted the 1976 bombing of a Cuban jetliner that killed 73 people.

Why doesn't Bush use the Patriot Act and make him an enemy combanant?

Why?

Anti-Castro militant freed from custody
Awaits trial on immigration fraud charges
By Laura Wides-Munoz, Associated Press | April 20, 2007

MIAMI -- Anti-Castro militant Luis Posada Carriles, a former CIA operative suspected in a decades-old Cuban airliner bombing, was released from US custody yesterday and flew to Miami as he awaits trial on immigration fraud charges.

Breaking News Alerts Posada was released from a New Mexico jail after posting bond and will stay at his wife's house in Miami, said his lawyer, Felipe D. J. Millan. He was required to post a $250,000 bond and his wife, daughter, and son were required to post a $100,000 bond to secure his release.

Justice Department spokesman Dean Boyd said Posada was required to report to pretrial services immediately upon his arrival in Miami. There, he will receive an electronic monitoring device.

Posada was accompanied by US marshals, said officials with Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Posada, 79, is awaiting a May 11 trial on allegations that he lied to immigration authorities while trying to become a naturalized citizen.

Earlier this week, an appeals court in New Orleans rejected the federal government's bid to keep Posada jailed until his trial. The release order puts him under 24-hour house arrest and stipulates that he wear an electronic monitoring device.

Posada is wanted in his native Cuba and in Venezuela, where he is accused of plotting the 1976 bombing of a Cuban jetliner that killed 73 people.

A judge ruled that he could not be deported to those countries because he might be tortured, and no other country has agreed to take him.

Attorneys for Venezuela have argued that under international law, if the United States decides not to return Posada to Venezuela, it should try him on the bombing charges.

Under the conditions of his release, Posada must try to find a country willing to take him, ICE officials said.

Posada has been jailed since March 2005, when he was caught in Miami and sent to El Paso to face immigration charges.

Posada's return was hailed by some in Miami who view him as a freedom fighter.

"He's quite old and in bad health. We believe he should be with his family and will not be a risk," said Angel De Fana, who heads a Miami-based group that supports political prisoners in Cuba and wrote a letter in favor of Posada's release.

Cuban media have been filled in recent days with condemnations of Posada's possible release, saying President Bush would be ultimately responsible if the anti-Castro fighter went free. In a written message last week, the Castro government accused the Bush administration of deciding "the liberation of the monster beforehand."

President Hugo Ch

Demiurge

What needs to be explained? Do you support Communism?

Posada is wanted in his native Cuba and in Venezuela, where he is accused of plotting the 1976 bombing of a Cuban jetliner that killed 73 people.

....by a pair of dictators. :rolleyes:

jdhdiggs

Use the Patriot act to lock him up? Did I miss the part where he was threatening and fighting against the US? I don't know if I even get the point you're trying to make.

bikezappa

OK I think I get what you are saying.

Am I to understand that you are saying it's OK to blow up a jet liner and kill 75 innocent people.

He was and is a terrorist.


This has nothing to with politics. Terrorism is terrorism.

Demiurge

bikezappa wrote: »

OK I think I get what you are saying.

Am I to understand that you are saying it's OK to blow up a jet liner and kill 75 innocent people.

He was and is a terrorist.


This has nothing to with politics. Terrorism is terrorism.

Oh, it has everything to do with politics. It always does. You're also missing the part that he was accused, not guilty. We're not in the business of turning people over to rogue nations.

Anyhow, I see what you're trying to do here. How does it feel to align yourself with Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro?

ohskigod

I would say the bombing of a plane is wrong either way, but was this guy ever tried? who has the evidence that he did it?

and....suffice it to say.... since he seems to be no threat to the US on a terrorism standpoint, the patriot act does not apply.

enemy combatants are the ones trying to kill us.......lets not lose focus here

bikezappa

Look in the mirror.

read-alot

Demiurge wrote: »

How does it feel to align yourself with Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro?

That was the impression I was getting, or should I say am.

bobman1235

bikezappa wrote: »

Look in the mirror.

As others have said, he's ACCUSED by a Communist country that has probably one of the top five worst relationships with this country.

What is this, 1690's Salem, MA? The McCarthy trials? Anyone can yell "j'accuse" and have someone else arrested for being a witch / communist / terrorist / racist (Imus)?

Maybe the guy should be tried in the US, but it sounds like he's on death's door anyways, who really gives a **** what happens to an 80-year old man?

Bikezappa kills babies. Someone arrest him.

jdhdiggs

Exactly... Should we go on a worldwide man hunt for anyone who stands accused of any act of terrorism? Even ones committed by foreigners against foreigners over foreign soil? Really? Wow, so you really do want the US to control and police the whole world? If there was any chance of the guy getting a fair trial in either of those countries he would be handed over. That's all the US involveent should be.

BTW: What we we interrogate him on? How to apply ointments? Best denture cleaner? What?

The only thing I find interesting is they might actually deport someone for breaking the law....

Bill Ayotte

jdhdiggs wrote: »

The only thing I find interesting is they might actually deport someone for breaking the law....

That is what I was thinking....There aren't enough cameras around all of the other people that enter this country illegally to actually do something about it.

bikezappa

bobman1235 wrote: »

As others have said, he's ACCUSED by a Communist country that has probably one of the top five worst relationships with this country.

What is this, 1690's Salem, MA? The McCarthy trials? Anyone can yell "j'accuse" and have someone else arrested for being a witch / communist / terrorist / racist (Imus)?

Maybe the guy should be tried in the US, but it sounds like he's on death's door anyways, who really gives a **** what happens to an 80-year old man?

Bikezappa kills babies. Someone arrest him.

This guy worked for the CIA.

It appears that he gets a free pass to kill 75 people in a jet.

I thought the president said that figthing terrorism was a world wide problem.

Why do we protect this man? Because he worked for the US.

Or to quote from 1984 by Orwell. "2+2=5 and he loved big brother".

I now understand why he is protected by our government based on everyone replies.

Thanks.

read-alot

It appeared like the whole Duke Lacrosse team was guilty too.

Demiurge

bikezappa wrote: »

This guy worked for the CIA.

It appears that he gets a free pass to kill 75 people in a jet.

I thought the president said that figthing terrorism was a world wide problem.

Why do we protect this man? Because he worked for the US.

Or to quote from 1984 by Orwell. "2+2=5 and he loved big brother".

I now understand why he is protected by our government based on everyone replies.

Thanks.

Are you oblivious to facts or something? You keep stating things as fact that aren't proven. I mean, I really appreciate you trying to link this to George W. Bush (what this post is all about) in the attempt to prove a long shot of a point, but the man was accused by a communist country and a dictator for a plot in 1976.

He's also not being protected. He's just not being turned over to Cuba or Venezuela.

I'll never stop getting a chuckle out of moral relativists.

bobman1235

Can you just not read, zappa?

A) the guy is awaiting trial right now, so he obviously doesn't just "Get a pass" for being a CIA operative
he is ACCUSED by an ENEMY FOREIGN government of a crime which you in all your infinite wisdom have already convicted him of

Just because you don't like our country or what the CIA does or anything doesn't mean you can convict someone without a trial. Go hang out at the peace pole at Mack's Apples and talk about the big mean evil government.

ohskigod

bikezappa wrote: »

This guy worked for the CIA.

It appears that he gets a free pass to kill 75 people in a jet.

I thought the president said that figthing terrorism was a world wide problem.

Why do we protect this man? Because he worked for the US.

Or to quote from 1984 by Orwell. "2+2=5 and he loved big brother".

I now understand why he is protected by our government based on everyone replies.

Thanks.

Go away BABYKILLER.....LOL

look dude, plain and simple, when someone is labelled a terrorist by Hugo and Fidel, we dont exactly put it to the top of the priority list. If it was....say england saying they wanted to try him, we'd probably deport him in 2 seconds, but Cuba and Venezuela? no.

My standpoint, if he did blow the plane, he's a scumbag plain and simple. but making it a defcon 1 emergency based soley on the words of a murderous dictator and Hugo "eff you gringos" chavez. We just dont put too much weight to it. and the american people, while not fans of people blowing up planes, might not be quick to judge because Fidel says so

shack

bikezappa must have ALL the pertinent information that clearly details both sides of the issue and that information clearly indicates that his view is the correct one. I'm sure he wouldn't start this thread for any other reason...like bashing one side of the political spectrum.

bikezappa

Cubana Flight 455 was a Cubana de Aviaci

bikezappa

More data from our government.

I just happen to hate people/terrorists that put bombs on planes.

Do you?

Washington D.C. May 10, 2005 - Declassified CIA and FBI records posted today on the Web by the National Security Archive at George Washington University identify Cuban exile Luis Posada Carriles, who is apparently in Florida seeking asylum, as a former CIA agent and as one of the "engineer" of the 1976 terrorist bombing of Cubana Airlines flight 455 that killed 73 passengers.

The documents include a November 1976 FBI report on the bombing cited in yesterday's New York Times article "Case of Cuban Exile Could Test the U.S. Definition of Terrorist," CIA trace reports covering the Agency's recruitment of Posada in the 1960s, as well as the FBI intelligence reporting on the downing of the plane. The Archive also posted a second FBI report, dated one day after the bombing, in which a confidential source "all but admitted that Posada and [Orlando] Bosch had engineered the bombing of the airline." In addition, the posting includes several documents relating to Bosch and his suspected role in the downing of the jetliner on October 6, 1976.

Using a false passport, Posada apparently snuck into the United States in late March and remains in hiding. His lawyer announced that Posada is asking the Bush administration for asylum because of the work he had done for the Central Intelligence Agency in the 1960s. The documents posted today include CIA records confirming that Posada was an agent in the 1960s and early 1970s, and remained an informant in regular contact with CIA officials at least until June 1976.

shack

Lot's of "it appears" and "all but" and suppositions it those releases....

It "appears" he is going through our legal system as one would have the right to do. The government has asked for things to happen and the courts have ruled. More "apparently" to follow. Too many so called news agencies want to become accuser, prosecutor, judge and jury when "reporting" something. You don't think they may have an agenda do you?

Demiurge

What are the sources on those 2 posts before I continue?

bikezappa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Posada_Carriles

Sami

Maybe the same reason why Saddam was executed and Pinochet only served in house arrest. Saddam worked on the wrong side while Pinochet worked on the right side (pun intended).

Another mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. That's the old truth and nothings going to change that. Russia considered Afghan rebels (mujahideen) terrorists, Carter & Reagan administrations considered them freedom fighters. When they turned against USA on 9/11 they turned to the wrong side so they became terrorists instead of freedom fighters. Russians must have been saying "I told you so". Well maybe not since I'm sure they know all about the hypocrazy surrounded on who is a terrorist and who isn't.

bikezappa

From Nation Security Archive

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB153/index.htm

You can call me names and say this and that about me but how would you feel if you had a friend on that plane?

Who cares if the man is old? He did it.

Show me some data that this man was innocent of this terrorist act. I may be wrong.

Goverments do bad things sometimes for good reasons. I just don't understand how Bush can say we all, that is the world, need to fight terrorism and give this guy a free pass, that is bail.

If you think he should be sent home that's ok. it's your decision and I won't call you names. Why do you need to call me names. Can't I express outrage that someone who killed 75 people is set free.

Demiurge

bikezappa wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Posada_Carriles

From the top of the page:

This article or section needs to be updated.

Parts of this article or section have been identified as no longer being up to date.

Please update the article to reflect recent events, and remove this template when finished.

The neutrality of this article is disputed.
Please see the discussion on the talk page.

For what it's worth, you or I could have written all of that. In fact, I could go in and change something right now if I wanted to.

In any event, Shack is right on. There's a lot of accusation and very little fact. There's no doubt he was involved with the C.I.A., is not a U.S. Citizen, is currently going through the U.S. judicial system, and did not bomb a plane.

The only accusation is that he helped plot an attack, and that accusation comes from:



COMMUNIST DICATOR FIDEL CASTRO -- CUBA

and



COMMUNIST/SOCIALIST 'PRESIDENT' HUGO CHAVEZ -- VENEZUELA

If you want to apply U.S. standards to him he is then innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

That would not happen in Venezuela or Cuba. He would be summarily executed for crimes which he may or may not have commited.

I have far more respect for the man you're trying to go after with this post than I do for Fidel Castro, a man who has tortured, killed, and improsoned thousands of people without a trial.

Still want to try and compare the U.S. to Cuba and Venezuela....? :rolleyes:

Demiurge

bikezappa wrote: »

From Nation Security Archive

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB153/index.htm

You can call me names and say this and that about me but how would you feel if you had a friend on that plane?

Who cares if the man is old? He did it.

Show me some data that this man was innocent of this terrorist act. I may be wrong.

Goverments do bad things sometimes for good reasons. I just don't understand how Bush can say we all, that is the world, need to fight terrorism and give this guy a free pass, that is bail.

If you think he should be sent home that's ok. it's your decision and I won't call you names. Why do you need to call me names. Can't I express outrage that someone who killed 75 people is set free.

First, it happened in 1976 -- so how on earth are you linking this to Bush? Second, Bush isn't a judge, he doesn't give bail. Judges do. We have checks and balances for exactly this reason. I'm going to wager a guess, but he probably doesn't know much about this at all. Wouldn't be at the top of my list. He's not an enemy of the U.S.

We're not going to extradite someone to a country who is going to kill a man without a trial and is also an enemy of the United States.

You've now called this man guilty in several posts. Where is your proof he is guilty? Why is the burden on us to prove his innocence? Aren't you innocent until proven guilty in this country? You're the one who needs to provide proof of guilt.

Sami

Demiurge wrote: »

You've now called this man guilty in several posts. Where is your proof he is guilty?

Demi, there is a lot of evidence against him and that's not limited to the airline bombing. Letelier murder for one, which actually happened on US soil in Washington, DC and also took a life of his american assistant.

read-alot

"Letelier was killed by a car bomb explosion on September 21, 1976, in Sheridan Circle, along with his American assistant, Ronni Karpen Moffitt; her husband Michael Moffitt was injured but survived. Several people were prosecuted and convicted for the murder. Among them were Michael Townley, a DINA U.S. expatriate who had once worked for the CIA; General Manuel Contreras, former head of the DINA; and Brigadier Pedro Espinoza Bravo, also formerly of DINA. Townley was convicted in the United States in 1978; Contreras and Espinoza were convicted in Chile in 1993. General Augusto Pinochet, who died on December 10, 2006, was never brought to trial for the murders, although Townley implicated him as being responsible for them."

Demiurge

Sami wrote: »

Demi, there is a lot of evidence against him and that's not limited to the airline bombing. Letelier murder for one, which actually happened on US soil in Washington, DC and also took a life of his american assistant.

You're guilty of a murder in Nebraska in 1985. You're guilty because I said so. There's a lot of evidence and you'll just have to take my word for it.

bikezappa

I don't understand why most people in this group think he is a good guy and not responsable of blowing up a jet.

I ask only ONE thing.

I googled him and could not find one article that says he is innocent.

Show me any credable report that says he is innocent of organizing the bombing the jet that kills 75 people.

I said Bush should declare him an enemy combatant that's all. Many other people have been declared this status with much less information.

I don't care when he organized the bombing, a terroristy is a terrorist.

I never compared the US to any other country.

I never said I hated this country.

I challenge any one to read our national security archive post about him.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB153/index.htm

A little data from our government about him may be informative.

Sami

Demiurge wrote: »

You're guilty of a murder in Nebraska in 1985. You're guilty because I said so. There's a lot of evidence and you'll just have to take my word for it.

You can choose to ignore the evidence, that's fine.