Recording Jazz at the Pawnshop
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Posts: 7,658
Hello,
Here's an interesting story from Paul Stubblebine on the Tape Project forum:
"We have discussed alignment in a couple of different places on this forum. It's fundamentally imortant that the playback machine match the curve used by the recorder, otherwise the frequencies won't come back in the proper balance.
Now Doc has reminded me I was going to post some tales from the trenches, and there's a good one concerning that old audiophile chestnut "Jazz At The Pawnshop," so here goes.
I have remastered that title twice, and this story concerns the first time. The owner of the tapes was flying around with them personally, first from Sweden to Japan, where they were remastered for XRCD, then to San Francisco where I remastered them in HDCD. The label was FIM, run by my good friend Winston Ma.
Before the session even began I got a call from an associate in Sweden, Diedrik de Geer, who is a friend of the engineer who did the original recording, Gert Palmcrantz. Diedrik wanted to be sure I was aware that the tapes were recorded with the CCIR curve (now known as the IEC curve.) He was obviously afraid that I would just align to the NAB curve, since that's the most common in the US. But I had been forewarned that the tapes were CCIR (and they were clearly labeled) and assured Diedrik that all was well.
But it really wasn't all well. The machine was properly set up to the CCIR test tape, but playing the tapes back the sound just wasn't right. We all agreed, it just didn't sound balanced. As we were talking about it, and the owner of the tapes mentioned that they had been recorded on Nagra machines, I wondered whether there was any possibility that they had been recorded with the Nagra Master curve, which is several dB different in the high end. I decided to experiment, and dialed the repro curve in by ear. Once I had it sounding right, I put up the Nagra Master test tape to see how close my "earballing" had come, and it matched within a fraction of a dB.
At this point I got another call from Diedrik--he was obviously really concerned. I explained what we had been finding, and asked whether there was any chance that the tapes had been recorded with the Nagra Master curve. He had been told for sure that they were CCIR, but it worried him enough that he drove out to Gert's place--he lives out in the boonies and doesn't have a phone. Couple hours later we get another call from Diedrik. Bottom line: Gert had recorded with the machines in the Nagra Master setting, but mistakenly believed that was the same as CCIR, so that's how the boxes were labeled. I put my Nagra Master test tape back on, fine trimmed the alignment, and got on with the session. And we changed the labeling on the boxes.
There's another twist to this which may not be obvious at first glance. These tapes were recorded with Dolby A. Anyone who had been mastering them previously might have noticed the frequency balance being askew and tried to compensate with EQ. But if the frequency balance wasn't corrected at the tape machine, before the Dolby unit, then the Dolby encoding could never have been decoded properly...it depends on having the original frequency balance for the decoding to work right.
I have a nice postcard from Diedrik saying that Gert told him my transfer sounds more like what he heard in the club that night than any other version he's heard."
Here's an interesting story from Paul Stubblebine on the Tape Project forum:
"We have discussed alignment in a couple of different places on this forum. It's fundamentally imortant that the playback machine match the curve used by the recorder, otherwise the frequencies won't come back in the proper balance.
Now Doc has reminded me I was going to post some tales from the trenches, and there's a good one concerning that old audiophile chestnut "Jazz At The Pawnshop," so here goes.
I have remastered that title twice, and this story concerns the first time. The owner of the tapes was flying around with them personally, first from Sweden to Japan, where they were remastered for XRCD, then to San Francisco where I remastered them in HDCD. The label was FIM, run by my good friend Winston Ma.
Before the session even began I got a call from an associate in Sweden, Diedrik de Geer, who is a friend of the engineer who did the original recording, Gert Palmcrantz. Diedrik wanted to be sure I was aware that the tapes were recorded with the CCIR curve (now known as the IEC curve.) He was obviously afraid that I would just align to the NAB curve, since that's the most common in the US. But I had been forewarned that the tapes were CCIR (and they were clearly labeled) and assured Diedrik that all was well.
But it really wasn't all well. The machine was properly set up to the CCIR test tape, but playing the tapes back the sound just wasn't right. We all agreed, it just didn't sound balanced. As we were talking about it, and the owner of the tapes mentioned that they had been recorded on Nagra machines, I wondered whether there was any possibility that they had been recorded with the Nagra Master curve, which is several dB different in the high end. I decided to experiment, and dialed the repro curve in by ear. Once I had it sounding right, I put up the Nagra Master test tape to see how close my "earballing" had come, and it matched within a fraction of a dB.
At this point I got another call from Diedrik--he was obviously really concerned. I explained what we had been finding, and asked whether there was any chance that the tapes had been recorded with the Nagra Master curve. He had been told for sure that they were CCIR, but it worried him enough that he drove out to Gert's place--he lives out in the boonies and doesn't have a phone. Couple hours later we get another call from Diedrik. Bottom line: Gert had recorded with the machines in the Nagra Master setting, but mistakenly believed that was the same as CCIR, so that's how the boxes were labeled. I put my Nagra Master test tape back on, fine trimmed the alignment, and got on with the session. And we changed the labeling on the boxes.
There's another twist to this which may not be obvious at first glance. These tapes were recorded with Dolby A. Anyone who had been mastering them previously might have noticed the frequency balance being askew and tried to compensate with EQ. But if the frequency balance wasn't corrected at the tape machine, before the Dolby unit, then the Dolby encoding could never have been decoded properly...it depends on having the original frequency balance for the decoding to work right.
I have a nice postcard from Diedrik saying that Gert told him my transfer sounds more like what he heard in the club that night than any other version he's heard."
Post edited by [Deleted User] on
Comments
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VERY cool.
I LOVE story time with Ken.
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
Ken is the Mr. Rogers of Club Polk.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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Presumably the "Doc" Paul Stubblebine mentions is none other than good ol' Dan "Doc Bottlehead" Schmalle.
www.bottlehead.com
Paul and Doc have done and are doing some interesting things together (for any here who don't know).
http://www.bottlehead.com/et/music/music.htm
http://www.bottlehead.com/et/adobespc/Seduction/bottleheadtapeheadpreamp.htm
http://www.tapeproject.com/
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Story time with Ken it just bliss. I feel like a nap now. I will dream of that Nagra machine the the proper head alignment.Carl
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Nope, Doc B's. Would that it were.
Most of the R2R's here are pretty pedestrian. The two nice ones live in the living room (appropriately enough), but nothing special.
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Great Stuff Ken. . . Now I can add more knoweldge of this great recoding to my memory banks. This is one of those recordings that I have every format and version ever made and put out.
Thanks for the story Ken. -
"It's a wonderful day in the neighborhood, would you be my neighbor? Can you say, audiophile? Sure, I knew you could."
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So, if I were to buy this in the store, how do I find the right version?
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So, if I were to buy this in the store, how do I find the right version?
Thuggy I have yet to find a version that is bad or even of lesser quality than a previous version. I do prefer the original LP and SACD to any of the Redbood CDs unless you can get your hands on the late 70s or 80s double CD version. . . believe it or not that one kicks butt! -
mhardy6647 wrote: »Presumably the "Doc" Paul Stubblebine mentions is none other than good ol' Dan "Doc Bottlehead" Schmalle.
www.bottlehead.com
Paul and Doc have done and are doing some interesting things together (for any here who don't know).
http://www.bottlehead.com/et/music/music.htm
http://www.bottlehead.com/et/adobespc/Seduction/bottleheadtapeheadpreamp.htm
http://www.tapeproject.com/
AWESOME!!! -
mhardy6647 wrote: »Nope, Doc B's. Would that it were.
Most of the R2R's here are pretty pedestrian. The two nice ones live in the living room (appropriately enough), but nothing special.
Mark your R2R's are a little more than pedestrian. The 909 is a real beauty! I have a 707 which is very nice, but I just picked up this little beauty
I need to align the heads a little. I bought a belt and the pinch rollers from Teac since I was going to get it cleaned and lubed anyway. It should be in audiophile condition in a week or so.Carl -
Mark your R2R's are a little more than pedestrian. The 909 is a real beauty! I have a 707 which is very nice, but I just picked up this little beauty
I need to align the heads a little. I bought a belt and the pinch rollers from Teac since I was going to get it cleaned and lubed anyway. It should be in audiophile condition in a week or so.
Atta boy!!! Keep rubbing out noses in it!:D
I want that friggin thing. -
hearingimpared wrote: »Atta boy!!! Keep rubbing out noses in it!:D
The bastage!!!!:D I quickly survey my stock of audio gear pictures and find nothing to beat it! Carl wins this hand!
Nice deck Carl. Bring it with your next trip out Chi-town way.Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
I didn't show you the single-motor Sonys and the other miscellany in the basement; I only showed you the nice ones :-)Mark your R2R's are a little more than pedestrian.
Nice TEAC! I wish my TASCAM took 10-1/2" reels... 'specially since it has 15 ips and four track heads. -
SCompRacer wrote: »The bastage!!!!:D I quickly survey my stock of audio gear pictures and find nothing to beat it! Carl wins this hand!
Nice deck Carl. Bring it with your next trip out Chi-town way.
You both need to bring your stuff to Newark Delaware!!!:eek:
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Awsome story Ken.
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mhardy6647 wrote: »I didn't show you the single-motor Sonys and the other miscellany in the basement; I only showed you the nice ones :-)
Nice TEAC! I wish my TASCAM took 10-1/2" reels... 'specially since it has 15 ips and four track heads.
Ah ha! I figured you might have some nice equipment hangin' around. It's always good to see you visit us at Club Polk, I know your a frequent visitor to AK. I saw some of you photos over there my friend;)
My wife's from Boston, where are you located in Red Sox territory?
15 ips will go through those 7" reels in a hurry!
CarlCarl -
Hello,
Great looking deck! It inspired me to take a photo of the most recent deck I've worked on. It's a Revox PR99 that I've replaced the capstan motor, microphone and headphone sockets. I took the deck completely apart, cleaned everything, polished the faceplate (good old Flitz) and bought new head block bezel and cover plate. To the playback circuitry I replaced the head loading resistors and signal path resistors with Vishay bulk foil versions. I also replaced all of the capacitors and eliminated some unwanted circuit paths. The result is an excellent sounding deck.
Jed -
oooooooo... nice ReVox!
We're out NW of Boston, in the deep-fringe 'burbs. -
Jed Leland wrote: »Hello,
Great looking deck! It inspired me to take a photo of the most recent deck I've worked on. It's a Revox PR99 that I've replaced the capstan motor, microphone and headphone sockets. I took the deck completely apart, cleaned everything, polished the faceplate (good old Flitz) and bought new head block bezel and cover plate. To the playback circuitry I replaced the head loading resistors and signal path resistors with Vishay bulk foil versions. I also replaced all of the capacitors and eliminated some unwanted circuit paths. The result is an excellent sounding deck.
Jed
Beautiful Revox!!! Good luck. -
Hello,
Thanks, guys. I learned allot working on the Revox, this was the third one I've added to the collection and each one I get a little more brave. The next project are two older Altec amplifiers. I've stripped one of the chassis and have had it powder coated and it turned out very nice. This will be a complete overhaul with only the AC transformer (I've coated it's bell housing cherry red!) and a few other transformers stock. I'll try and take some photos and post them.
Jed -
So Ken are you teasing us, or will there be a CD in the making available to us?:)Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
Thanks
Ben
