Small or Large?

1lakerfan

I have the Polk Rti10s and a Velodyne DLS-4000R Subwoofer. Should i set the speakers to small or large? and what should I set the crossover to?

gvg45

FYI, you only need to post the question once.

I stated what I thought in your other thread.

Schwingding

1lakerfan wrote: »

I have the Polk Rti10s and a Velodyne DLS-4000R Subwoofer. Should i set the speakers to small or large? and what should I set the crossover to?

There are very few situations where you will want to set your speakers to large. This is not one of them.

dorokusai

I would set them to Large.

What crossover setting are we talking about, AVR or subwoofer? What connection are you using to the subwoofer?

MikeC78

In your situatution having that Velo, I'd definetly go small in the AVR. Set the crossover at 80hz, and let the Velo do the rest of the work.

Some AVR's like my Pioneer, you can do both, there is a "plus" setting that will route LFE to the subs and mains in the large setting.

I have LSi15 mains and surrounds, and I still use the small setting. Moreover, I have two PCU's that take care of the rest.

Mike

liordra

Depends on that AVR you use / how you connect the sub to the AVR.

If you connect your sub to the AVR through the sub out (LFE) out, then keep in mind that some AVRs will not output the low freq for STEREO via the LFE out.
that means that if you setup the floor standing (ROT10s) as small, and connect the sub to the sub pre out (LFE out) on the AVR, you will not get any lows in STEREO mode (RTI10 or SUB).

if you connect your sub to the main Left and Right preout (as I do), then you must setup the RTI10 as Lagre. one you do you, needn't worry about Stereo bass, However, you must setup your AVR to "NO-SUB" that is what makes the AVR send the .1 channel of the movies to the RTI10s and the sub will get those freq through the Left / Right preout (I really think this sounds better, at least in my case).

ofcourse there is always the possibility that your AVR does support outputing stereo to the sub out, in which case you can do either.
as MikeC78 wrote 80 HZ is considered a good level to cut the lows.

MikeC78

Which receivers won't route LFE to the the sub in the stereo setting? I figured they all did as long as you set the mains to small?

liordra

Mine (a marantz) does not. I think most receivers in "pure direct" (or whatever they call it) will also not do that. using the L/R preout solves it.

liordra

this is a really good and to the point educational http://www.polkaudio.com/education/article.php?id=19

engtaz

Try it small and large and then see what sounds better to you. Your ears are the better source for what sound good to you.

michael_w

I'd go large. To me it seems like a waste to cross the rti10's over at 80hz when they're good for so much more than that. Maybe if you could do small and 40 / 50 hz but not too many receivers will let you do that. It would be a bit easier on your receiver to set them as small, but whatever floats your boat.

1lakerfan

I have a Denon AVR-2807 reciever. When I put the reciver to small it seems that I get the cleanest sound on 40 Hz. When you put the speaker to large are you supposed to change the crossover on the subwoofer? because when I set the speaker large the setting of changing the crossver to the fronts goes away. I have the recivever connected to the subwoofer through the LFE with what I think its called a Y-adapter.

liordra

if u use the LFE connection on the Denon, you should Bypass the Crossover on the sub (I'm sure u can do that with the velodyne). that way the denon handles all the bass managment. naturally in this configuration cross over settings on the sub has no effect (as it is being bypassed).

if you DO NOT use the LFE, you should not Bypass the Crossover on the sub, rather you should set the cross over (low pass filter, actually) to what ever sounds good to you (of course considering the cross over settings on the Denon).

kalgiers

I think the question we need to start with is what are you using for you system for? And what kind of amplifier receiver is in use. Asuming you have enough juice to drive them properly those towers should do just fine in 2 channel mode unless you like really bass heavy/deep music (but then the sub isn't being used). For digital home theater all the channels are descreet so you can set them to large w/out taking away from the LFE channel while still getting full channel information from up front where it was designed to come from.

dorokusai

There is really no reason to set a floorstanding speaker to small if you're able to select a crossover point, like 80hz for example. Most of the generic "rules" in regards to setting up an AVR are just that, generic and for folks who need some kind of clear guidence. Another issue some people have when setting everything up, is that they don't know how to blend the subwoofer correctly and 50% of the time don't even know what "calibration" is....hence "rules".

I run my bookshelves on large because what's the difference? I'm crossing them at 80hz, so small serves absolutely no purpose. Keep in mind that not all AVR's have infinite adjustability.

MikeC78

dorokusai wrote: »

There is really no reason to set a floorstanding speaker to small if you're able to select a crossover point, like 80hz for example. Most of the generic "rules" in regards to setting up an AVR are just that, generic and for folks who need some kind of clear guidence. Another issue some people have when setting everything up, is that they don't know how to blend the subwoofer correctly and 50% of the time don't even know what "calibration" is....hence "rules".

I run my bookshelves on large because what's the difference? I'm crossing them at 80hz, so small serves absolutely no purpose. Keep in mind that not all AVR's have infinite adjustability.

Here is a good read on why you would NOT set your speakers to large.

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/bass-management-basics-2013-settings-made-simple

From Audioholics...

OK, I Get It But My Speakers Really Are LARGE!

For some, your main speakers may actually extend down to 30Hz or lower, especially if they include 10” or 12” side-firing low frequency drivers. The temptation will be to set these speakers to LARGE., The setting is there so there must be a place for its use, right? Actually, we recommend setting almost all speakers to SMALL, even if they are physically large floorstanding speakers. Here’s why: Even though those floorstanders have a low extension, they won’t necessarily go down to the lowest range of your subwoofer as linearly and free of compression (unless your main speakers have more piston area and box volume than your sub – but we won’t address that here) The problem with the LARGE setting is: the ultra low frequency information will not be heard if the speaker cannot reproduce it. Well if by some chance you were able to get your main speakers bass extension flat down to 20Hz, then adding the subwoofer on top of that would yield too much (up to 6dB) of bass output at the frequencies both are producing. Hence integration between the loudspeakers and subwoofer will be poor and the bass may be overpowering, sloppy and/or boomy

pearsall001

Makes sense to me.

dorokusai

MikeC78 wrote: »

Here is a good read on why you would NOT set your speakers to large.

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/bass-management-basics-2013-settings-made-simple

From Audioholics...

OK, I Get It But My Speakers Really Are LARGE!

For some, your main speakers may actually extend down to 30Hz or lower, especially if they include 10” or 12” side-firing low frequency drivers. The temptation will be to set these speakers to LARGE., The setting is there so there must be a place for its use, right? Actually, we recommend setting almost all speakers to SMALL, even if they are physically large floorstanding speakers. Here’s why: Even though those floorstanders have a low extension, they won’t necessarily go down to the lowest range of your subwoofer as linearly and free of compression (unless your main speakers have more piston area and box volume than your sub – but we won’t address that here) The problem with the LARGE setting is: the ultra low frequency information will not be heard if the speaker cannot reproduce it. Well if by some chance you were able to get your main speakers bass extension flat down to 20Hz, then adding the subwoofer on top of that would yield too much (up to 6dB) of bass output at the frequencies both are producing. Hence integration between the loudspeakers and subwoofer will be poor and the bass may be overpowering, sloppy and/or boomy

You might want to read that a little closer and then think back about what I mentioned about the AVR X-over and calibration.

MikeC78

dorokusai wrote: »

You might want to read that a little closer and then think back about what I mentioned about the AVR X-over and calibration.

Please explain yourself a little more clearer for the dumbfounded one.

dorokusai

If I set my 40-50hz capable bookend to Large and AVR X it @ 80hz, what's the difference between choosing Small?

John K.

Mark, to have an actual crossover for those speakers they have to be set "small". When they're set "large", by definition that means that they're run full-range. Any crossover frequency, such as 80Hz, set in the receiver wouldn't apply to them and would only affect speakers(e.g. center, surrounds)which were set "small".

liordra

1lakerfun, I decided to grab this thread as an excuse to further mess with my setup (always a fun thing to do). I have tried to set all speakers to SMALL and use the LFE output (as some ppl advised earlier) just for some comparison. the results are interesting, I watched "kill bill II" (dts es), and some scenes from "the return of the king" (dts es) and I liked the results, a lot. then I have played a CD, R.E.M "new advantures in hi fi", and the sound was great: the overall volume increased and lower mids got thicker and clearer. however Stereo results, IMO where less impressive. I think that for multi channel modes (Dolby Digital II , DTS Neo 6, DTS , AC3 etc...) setting all the speakers to SMALL yields better results. for two channel music , I'd setup the fronts as LARGE. so basically I have no clear conclusion.
of course you can always start a separate two channel rig

66chevyIISS

Interesting Liordra. I find mine to be similar. Even with my small bookshelf speakers, I prefer the way it sounds with them set at Large when listening in Stereo.

1lakerfan

Do most people listen to music on stereo? I usually listen to music on Dts neo 6 music or Pro logic 2 music

michael_w

Yes stereo is the what I find sounds best. I liked it enough to get rid of my ht system all together.

dorokusai

John K. wrote: »

Mark, to have an actual crossover for those speakers they have to be set "small". When they're set "large", by definition that means that they're run full-range. Any crossover frequency, such as 80Hz, set in the receiver wouldn't apply to them and would only affect speakers(e.g. center, surrounds)which were set "small".

John - I digress as I'm verbally confusing my room equalization setup with the actual generic setup. I have alot of flexibility with my B&K, and tend to believe that everything is the same out there in HT land. My mistake, sorry gang but I do handle things differently in-house.

Set them to SMALL folks, adjust & calibrate....enjoy!

1lakerfan

Why does my subwoofer turn off when I put the reciever on stereo?

danger boy

use a different stereo mode.. sometimes receivers have bypass or something like pure or upsampling... one of them may kick the subwoofer on in stereo.

John K.

Laker, if you set your 2807 to Stereo and your mains Small, the sub gets the bass below the selected crossover point(e.g. 80Hz). If you meant that there was no sub in Stereo when your mains are set Large, that's because the only bass that exists in Stereo(from the two front channels)stays in the mains when they're set Large; there's none directed to the sub.