Subwoofer timing?
soiset
Posts: 724
I think this is my first post in the car audio section. Don't know why I didn't think of asking about this before.
I have a Subaru Impreza wagon. Head unit is a Clarion DXZ825, DSP is Clarion DPH910, CD changer is CDC1255Z. Amp is Rockford Fosgate Power 600.5. Fronts are Polk db3055, rears are db4510. Sub is the previous generation Polk db10 in a 1 cubic foot sealed box, behind the back seat in the cargo area.
The problem I have always had is that the lowest bass from my sub sounds delayed, as though it is arriving a fraction of a second late to my ears. This is particulary noticeable with electronic music, with its much lower and more prevalent bass. Not so much with regular rock.
There is no delay or phase function on the head unit, dsp, or amp.
Anything I can do about this? Is it possible it isn't a delayed arrival, but something else?
Thanks
I have a Subaru Impreza wagon. Head unit is a Clarion DXZ825, DSP is Clarion DPH910, CD changer is CDC1255Z. Amp is Rockford Fosgate Power 600.5. Fronts are Polk db3055, rears are db4510. Sub is the previous generation Polk db10 in a 1 cubic foot sealed box, behind the back seat in the cargo area.
The problem I have always had is that the lowest bass from my sub sounds delayed, as though it is arriving a fraction of a second late to my ears. This is particulary noticeable with electronic music, with its much lower and more prevalent bass. Not so much with regular rock.
There is no delay or phase function on the head unit, dsp, or amp.
Anything I can do about this? Is it possible it isn't a delayed arrival, but something else?
Thanks
Post edited by soiset on
Comments
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Try wiring the sub out of phase. This sometimes helps.polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st
polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D -
MacLeod wrote:Try wiring the sub out of phase. This sometimes helps.
Hmm, hadn't thought of that. Isn't that supposed to kill the bass? Of course, it's not hard to try! Is this exactly the same as a phase switch being set to 180? -
Actually, even tho it is raining, I'm going out there to try it now!
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Yup, its the same as 180 degrees out of phase.
Doesnt always work, in fact it usually doesnt. However I currently have the sub out of phase in my car now. It does pull the bass up front AND add to the response.polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st
polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D -
I'm just a noobie, but about a year ago I had the same problem - well, I would have described it the same, anyway. I was using a RF sub, but underpowering it.
Upping the watts with a diff. (JL 500.1) amp fixed it. I wonder if this had something to do the better slew rate, and/or damping factor, as well as more watts? -
more power won't make the sub react faster vs delayed.
Mac - I see the bass moving "up front" but adding to the response? How is that possible? Same settings, same sub, same box. How did phase affect the response??Never kick a fresh **** on a hot day.
Home Setup: Sony VPL-VW85 Projo, 92" Stewart Firehawk, Pioneer Elite SC-65, PS3, RTi12 fronts, CSi5, FXi6 rears, RTi6 surround backs, RTi4 height, MFW-15 Subwoofer.
Car Setup: OEM Radio, RF 360.2v2, Polk SR6500 quad amped off 4 Xtant 1.1 100w mono amps, Xtant 6.1 to run an eD 13av.2, all Stinger wiring and Raammat deadener. -
I tried wiring it out of phase, and I can't say that it worked. I'm really disappointed that my ultra-fancy DSP doesn't accomodate time alignment. My sub is several feet farther from my ears than my mains, and is crossed at about 100 Hz. In a home system, the barest of AV receivers now have delay for all of the speakers. I figure that the sub sound arrives to my ears 3 milliseconds (roughly 3.5 feet farther) after the main sound. I did notice much improved sound last time I travelled with so much stuff in the car that I had to put the sub behind the passenger seat in the floor, making it about the same distance to my ears as my mains.
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Jack from Indo wrote:I wonder if this had something to do the better slew rate, and/or damping factor, as well as more watts?
No... the only thing that you would have noticed was the added power, and this would be if you came close to doubling your power.MacLeod wrote:Doesnt always work, in fact it usually doesnt.
Depends on the install.soiset wrote:I tried wiring it out of phase, and I can't say that it worked. I'm really disappointed that my ultra-fancy DSP doesn't accomodate time alignment. My sub is several feet farther from my ears than my mains, and is crossed at about 100 Hz. In a home system, the barest of AV receivers now have delay for all of the speakers. I figure that the sub sound arrives to my ears 3 milliseconds (roughly 3.5 feet farther) after the main sound. I did notice much improved sound last time I travelled with so much stuff in the car that I had to put the sub behind the passenger seat in the floor, making it about the same distance to my ears as my mains.
Have you tried playing aound with the way the sub is firing?Alpine: CDA-7949
Alpine: PXA-H600
Alpine: CHA-S624, KCA-420i, KCA-410C
Rainbow: CS 265 Profi Phase Plug / SL 165
ARC Audio: 4150-XXK / 1500v1-XXK
JL Audio: 10W6v2 (x2)
KnuKonceptz
Second Skin -
I take it you mean the direction it faces(?)
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Correct....Alpine: CDA-7949
Alpine: PXA-H600
Alpine: CHA-S624, KCA-420i, KCA-410C
Rainbow: CS 265 Profi Phase Plug / SL 165
ARC Audio: 4150-XXK / 1500v1-XXK
JL Audio: 10W6v2 (x2)
KnuKonceptz
Second Skin -
It wont add to your response, but if youre sub is playing a couple of ms behind the rest of your speakers, and reversing the polarity happens to help, youre going to be getting the right sound at the right time making it seem like it has a fuller response...hope that makes sense. lol.Toxis wrote:more power won't make the sub react faster vs delayed.
Mac - I see the bass moving "up front" but adding to the response? How is that possible? Same settings, same sub, same box. How did phase affect the response??
-CodyMusic is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it -
lol no it didn't. Timing of the bass wave is different than the response.Never kick a fresh **** on a hot day.
Home Setup: Sony VPL-VW85 Projo, 92" Stewart Firehawk, Pioneer Elite SC-65, PS3, RTi12 fronts, CSi5, FXi6 rears, RTi6 surround backs, RTi4 height, MFW-15 Subwoofer.
Car Setup: OEM Radio, RF 360.2v2, Polk SR6500 quad amped off 4 Xtant 1.1 100w mono amps, Xtant 6.1 to run an eD 13av.2, all Stinger wiring and Raammat deadener.
