Monitor 10 upgrade

Sumbrada77

I am going to redo the crossovers in my original Monitor 10s.

1. Suggestions on Caps? I have heard good things for Solens and Sonicaps.
what's your opinions?
2. What I read, a 0.1uF ish bypass Cap with the main caps really help detail and smoothness. Opinions? Suggested values?
3. Should the Mylar 12uF be switched with Solens type along with the Electrolytics? If not, suggestions for the Mylar?
4. Everyone suggests Mills resistors, how about the inductors/coils?
5. In the schematics available here there are 2 mods. One for the SL2500 tweeters. Values are different. Any help on Why? I have Peerless now but maybe upgrading to the RDO silks later.
Thanks for your help! This is a great Forum, good people, great information!

Deadof_knight

Solens in my opinion and mills resistors buy the same values except higher voltage ratings from everything Ive seen everyone do here. Send a PM to Darqueknight

heiney9

I just ordered (got shipping confirmation) parts from Parts Express to rebuild the x-overs in a pair of 20+ year old 5b's. I decided to go with Solens strictly for price considerations. SonicCaps are pretty pricey and while it might be worth it for SDA's these vintage Monitor's don't need that kind of coin spent for upgrades. There are other design shortcomings that doesn't make it worth it for the SonicCaps.

I also ordered Mills resistors and 16 ga wire to rewire the whole speaker. In the Monitor series they used very very thin (think dental floss) wire originally. All in all it cost just less than $50 for parts and shipping. Next is to upgrade to the new Silk dome tweeters (RD-0194) getting rid of these sl2000's.

I'll be doing the project this Thursday evening with a friend I'll be taking some pics and should get them poste by next weekend.

H9

heiney9

Sumbrada77 wrote:

I am going to redo the crossovers in my original Monitor 10s.

1. Suggestions on Caps? I have heard good things for Solens and Sonicaps.
what's your opinions?
2. What I read, a 0.1uF ish bypass Cap with the main caps really help detail and smoothness. Opinions? Suggested values?
3. Should the Mylar 12uF be switched with Solens type along with the Electrolytics? If not, suggestions for the Mylar?
4. Everyone suggests Mills resistors, how about the inductors/coils?
5. In the schematics available here there are 2 mods. One for the SL2500 tweeters. Values are different. Any help on Why? I have Peerless now but maybe upgrading to the RDO silks later.
Thanks for your help! This is a great Forum, good people, great information!

1) Solens (mylar or polypropelene)
2) up to you-some have discussed here before-search???)
3) get rid of Electrolytics
4) get the Mills keep the original Inductors
5) keep the peerless-values are different because the tweets are different. If you upgrade to the RDO's you will need to modify the x-over (use the schematic for the reg 10's(not peerless) or the sl2500)

jakelm

I just recieved my Solen caps and Mills resistors from PE for my 7b's (with peerless). Will upgrade my crossovers tonight. Will let you know how it comes out.

Jake

heiney9

jakelm wrote:

I just recieved my Solen caps and Mills resistors from PE for my 7b's (with peerless). Will upgrade my crossovers tonight. Will let you know how it comes out.

Jake

Take pics if you can and discuss anything about fitting the larger caps on the board. That's where I might need some suggestions. And of course the sound, beofe break in.

jakelm

Ok... It did surprise me to see how much larger the Solens are compared to the Maylar and electrolytic. And to see how short the post (wire rods) are on the Solens.

Wooohooo,,,,900 post...lol

jakelm

Ok my friend's, this was the easiest upgrade I have ever done. 2 resistors and 2 caps. Spaced easily apart and very accessable.

First, I found the easiest way to do this upgrade is to remove the drivers from the crossover. Take the midbass and tweeter out of the cabinet and unsolder the wires from the drivers. Remeber to make a mark where the black (+) wire goes.

Next unscrew the crossover form the cabinet and remove.

Under the crossover (the side facing the inputs), there is a copper wire coming from the main coil. You will need to unsolder the copper wire from the crossover. Remeber where it goes, but it is very easy to remember the location.

On the top of the crossover there are 4 plastic tabs. Needlenose pliers to pinch the plastic tab. There is a small lip on the tab that needs to be pinch in. Then as you pinch the "lip" raise the crossover through the tab.

You will not need to remove the 2 wires coming from the input. I found that they are long enough to flip the croosover.

I used silver solder for the strongest joint. You will notice that parts are very accessable.

The one thing I would reccomend is putting the smaller 12uf cap first, then put the 33uf kind of on top. You will see how it looks when finished in my pics.

This is a very easy project.

As for the sound? I found the upgrade worth every penny. My 7's have opened up alot, especially in the highs. Much clearer sound. And thats from only listening to it now for about 30 minutes. I'm sure the more I play them the better it will be.

Below you see before and after..I am truely sorry for the quality..I dont know whats going on with my cam..but hopefully you can see the difference

jakelm

The only difference I found between the 7's crossover and the 10's xover, is an additional 12uf cap that fits along on top with the first front resistor. Becides that, everything seems to be the same.

heiney9

jakelm wrote:

Ok my friend's, this was the easiest upgrade I have ever done. 2 resistors and 2 caps. Spaced easily apart and very accessable.

First, I found the easiest way to do this upgrade is to remove the drivers from the crossover. Take the midbass and tweeter out of the cabinet and unsolder the wires from the drivers. Remeber to make a mark where the black (+) wire goes.

Next unscrew the crossover form the cabinet and remove.

Under the crossover (the side facing the inputs), there is a copper wire coming from the main coil. You will need to unsolder the copper wire from the crossover. Remeber where it goes, but it is very easy to remember the location.

On the top of the crossover there are 4 plastic tabs. Needlenose pliers to pinch the plastic tab. There is a small lip on the tab that needs to be pinch in. Then as you pinch the "lip" raise the crossover through the tab.

You will not need to remove the 2 wires coming from the input. I found that they are long enough to flip the croosover.

I used silver solder for the strongest joint. You will notice that parts are very accessable.

The one thing I would reccomend is putting the smaller 12uf cap first, then put the 33uf kind of on top. You will see how it looks when finished in my pics.

This is a very easy project.

As for the sound? I found the upgrade worth every penny. My 7's have opened up alot, especially in the highs. Much clearer sound. And thats from only listening to it now for about 30 minutes. I'm sure the more I play them the better it will be.

Below you see before and after..I am truely sorry for the quality..I dont know whats going on with my cam..but hopefully you can see the difference

Excellent!!! Thanks for the breakdown and pics. Did you have to extend the length of the leads on either of the new capacitors?

schwarcw

Hi! Welcome to Club Polk!

If you have Peerless tweeters, don't worry about getting the silks. Your Peerless are just fine. I looked at the Monitor 10 schematic. Don't touch the inductors, they should be okay. I would get a Solen cap for the 34 uF and Sonicaps for the 12 uF caps. There are no bypass caps in the original schematic. I wouldn't add one. If you play your music at reasonable volume levels with a good amp, you can remove the Polysitches and use a jumper in it's place. A piece of 14 gauge copper wire will do. Mill resistors are very good and inexpensive. Get yourself some new binding posts. Vampire binding posts will cost you about $25 for a stereo pair. Get the short or the long ones. Do you have stands for your Monitor 10's? If so, put some spikes on them to tighten up the bass.

Jake did a real nice job on his 10's!!

Good luck and welcome to the Club Polk Forums!

jakelm

heiney9 wrote:

Excellent!!! Thanks for the breakdown and pics. Did you have to extend the length of the leads on either of the new capacitors?

Thanks H9, No I did not have to extend the leads on the caps, The 33uf was just long enough, as a meetr of fact I was able to have enough extra to cut off.

jakelm

Thanks, Schwarcw,
Mine were 7's but the only difference I found between the 7's and the 10's is an additional 12uf cap in parralell with the first front resistor.

Solens and Mills form PE work great, I wouldn't worry about bypass or more expencive caps.

jmwest1970

jakelm wrote:

As for the sound? I found the upgrade worth every penny. My 7's have opened up alot, especially in the highs. Much clearer sound. And thats from only listening to it now for about 30 minutes. I'm sure the more I play them the better it will be.

Have you noticed any difference in the midrange?

jakelm

jmwest1970 wrote:

Have you noticed any difference in the midrange?

Yes, I will need to re-run my Eq, the mids are much more pronounced now. Being everything just opened up, I feel I need to recallibrate everything, thats how much of a difference the upgrade made.

Sumbrada77

Thanks for all of the great upgrade information.

So its Solens for Caps, PE type for all the Electrolystic and Mylar., Mills
resistors and leave the coils in. Replace teh binding posts, they are poor and upgrade internal wiring. Maybe Sonicap I for the tweeter and
bypass if I wish. I think it would be a good experiment and relatively
inexpensive. Sounds great! All parts from Parts Express? How about solder,from there also?

After pulling the drivers and redoing the crossovers how do all reseal
the cabinets. Silicone Sealant?

Time to start making sound notes before to compare!!

jakelm

Sumbrada77 wrote:

After pulling the drivers and redoing the crossovers how do all reseal
the cabinets. Silicone Sealant?

Time to start making sound notes before to compare!!

There are gaskets that should remove with both the drivers and crossovers. The best way to test the cabinet for air tight is when everything is back together, push gently on the passive radiator. The midbass should rise and hold. If there is a bad air leak then the midbass will drop right away.

elguapo99

I am the original owner of my monitor 10A's and have recently rebuilt the crossovers. I originally used Solen 33uf and 12uf caps and mills 2.7 ohm / 5W resistors to replace the original components. I was very disappointed with the results as the speakers sounded very bright and harsh. After reading several other posts on the subject I decided to try Sonicap 12uf caps to replace the 12uf Solen. It was a night and day difference. The speakers now sound better than ever with a very delicate detail. Well worth the upgrade. BTW, none of the Monitor 10 schematics on this site match the crossovers in my speakers.

heiney9

elguapo99 wrote: »

I am the original owner of my monitor 10A's and have recently rebuilt the crossovers. I originally used Solens 33uf and 12uf caps and mills 2.7 ohm / 5W resistors to replace the original components. I was very disappointed with the results as the speakers sounded very bright and harsh. After reading several other posts on the subject I decided to try Sonicap 12uf caps to replace the 12uf Solens. It was a night and day difference. The speakers now sound better than ever with a very delicate detail. Well worth the upgrade. BTW, none of the Monitor 10 schematics on this site match the crossovers in my speakers.

Do you have the peerless tweeter? I'm not sure if the schematics for some of the very early Monitor series were ALL posted. I think models with the peerless had an additional resistor (this is from memory).

I used the Solens and since I have the sl2000 tweeter it still sounds very forward, but I do think some of the grain and glare is gone. Also, my 5b's originally had the 2.7 ohm / 5W resistor but both schematics showed it as a DELETE and put a 2.0 ohm in its place. I wasn't able to find a 2.7/5 Mills. So I used (by schematic) a 2.0 ohm 12W Mills. Where did you get yours? I've only seen 2.0/12 or 2.5/12 Mills listed on every site that sells them.

H9

elguapo99

I bought the Mills 2.7 ohm / 5W resitors from Sonicap. My speakers had two 2.7 ohm / 5W resistors as original and I replaced with the same values. I am not sure which tweeter I have. These are original monitor 10A's.

schwarcw

elguapo99 wrote: »

I am the original owner of my monitor 10A's and have recently rebuilt the crossovers. I originally used Solens 33uf and 12uf caps and mills 2.7 ohm / 5W resistors to replace the original components. I was very disappointed with the results as the speakers sounded very bright and harsh. After reading several other posts on the subject I decided to try Sonicap 12uf caps to replace the 12uf Solens. It was a night and day difference. The speakers now sound better than ever with a very delicate detail. Well worth the upgrade. BTW, none of the Monitor 10 schematics on this site match the crossovers in my speakers.

Welcome to Club Polk! Thanks for sharing your experience. I agree that Sonicaps are the better choice for a cap in your tweeter circuit. The Solens have sounded harsh to some. I think they have performed fine for the low pass. Also, the Sonicaps can get quite large and pricey for the higher values.

heiney9

elguapo99 wrote: »

I bought the Mills 2.7 ohm / 5W resitors from Sonicap. My speakers had two 2.7 ohm / 5W resistors as original and I replaced with the same values. I am not sure which tweeter I have. These are original monitor 10A's.

Did you mean Sonic Craft? I just found their website and they indeed have the Mills and they have both the 5W and 12W, as well as the Sonicaps. I just didn't feel like spending another $40 on Sonicaps (12uF) for this project (2nd system speakers). The Solens have really improved the aged original parts. I imagine the Sonicaps would even improve more.

H9

heiney9

jmwest1970 wrote: »

Have you noticed any difference in the midrange?

I've got about 4 hours on my upgrades. Midrange transparency is now excellent. Very 3 dimensional, uncongested, and open. If you have sl2000 tweets they are still very forward, but some of the grain and glare is now gone. I would highly recommend this x-over upgrade. Don't skimp make sure to spend the money and get the Mills resistors.

H9

Sumbrada77

Thanks Elguapo99! I have original 10s with Peerless tweeters which sounds like what you have. The hint that the crossover might be different crossed mind mind before when I looked at the schematics here. I just ordered (4)
ClarityCap SA 12uF caps (many reviews were very positive, much better than Solens and close to Sonicaps and 1/2 the cost of Sonicaps). I was going to use the PPE vers. of the Solens 34uF. www.partsconnexion.com has both types and all of the Mills resistors 2.0, 2.5, 2.7 ohm in both 5&12W. Prices almost the same as partsexpress. I may try a 0.01uF bypass also as a test. Thanks for the review of the Sonicaps and Solens in the 10s. This could get interesting!

heiney9

Sumbrada77 wrote: »

Thanks Elguapo99! I have original 10s with Peerless tweeters which sounds like what you have. The hint that the crossover might be different crossed mind mind before when I looked at the schematics here. I just ordered (4)
ClarityCap SA 12uF caps (many reviews were very positive, much better than Solens and close to Sonicaps and 1/2 the cost of Sonicaps). I was going to use the PPE vers. of the Solens 34uF. www.partsconnexion.com has both types and all of the Mills resistors 2.0, 2.5, 2.7 ohm in both 5&12W. Prices almost the same as partsexpress. I may try a 0.01uF bypass also as a test. Thanks for the review of the Sonicaps and Solens in the 10s. This could get interesting!

I thought about partsconnexion, but if I remember they are Canadian and didn't feel like dealing with shipping and conversion from Canada.

Keep us posted, this is a very worthwhile project .

H9

Rivrrat

I'm really considering this ( and collectively it's all your fault, I have a lot of other expensive hobbies, I didn't need this to spiral out of control).

I started pricing the sonicaps, and realized I was talking about 100 bucks plus for the redo. Then I thought about it, and realized I paid almost 800 bucks for these speaks in 85.

I guess it doesn't seem so bad to now.

heiney9

Rivrrat wrote: »

I'm really considering this ( and collectively it's all your fault, I have a lot of other expensive hobbies, I didn't need this to spiral out of control).

I started pricing the sonicaps, and realized I was talking about 100 bucks plus for the redo. Then I thought about it, and realized I paid almost 800 bucks for these speaks in 85.

I guess it doesn't seem so bad to now.

That's why I decided to go with the Solens over Sonicaps. Big improvement compared to worn out stock parts. Not to dump on the Monitor 10's but the side by side mid woofers aren't the best design to get really great uncongested midrange so I don't think spending the extra coin on Sonicaps is warranted, for SDA's probably worth it.

For these older Monitor series the law of diminishing returns is in effect especially if you have the sl2000 tweeter. No amount of expensive caps or resistor's in the signal path are going to tame that +6dB spike at about 13kHz. The Mills seems to have softened the grain and glare however.

I only have a very short listening time with my upgraded 5b's and the difference is startling once you start listening to very familiar music. Bass and midrange is greatly improved.

H9

jakelm

Solen or Sonicaps.....doesnt matter.... With peerless tweeter use 4.5ohm for the first resistor up front and remove the 12uf that goes with it. So in that place all you should have is a 4.5ohm resistor. You will love the sound. Ohms for the intire speaker will be 4.6ohms.

heiney9

Here is my write up and lots of pics showing the 5b's x-over upgrade. I started a new thread in the DIY Mods forum.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?p=613756#post613756

Sumbrada77

Thanks everyone fro great info and comments. MyCaps are on the way and I am ordering the rest of the parts very soon. Time for close sound testing, notes and before and after pics, notes for all here to critique.
jakelm, I have a question? You suggested taking out the first 12uf cap and first 2.5? ohm resistor to the tweeter and replacing with a 4.5 ohm only. You mentioned this came from a schematic? Which one, and would 4.7ohm work as partsconnexion.com only has 4 or 4.7ohm mills resistors. Thanks!

jakelm

Sumbrada77 wrote: »

Thanks everyone fro great info and comments. MyCaps are on the way and I am ordering the rest of the parts very soon. Time for close sound testing, notes and before and after pics, notes for all here to critique.
jakelm, I have a question? You suggested taking out the first 12uf cap and first 2.5? ohm resistor to the tweeter and replacing with a 4.5 ohm only. You mentioned this came from a schematic? Which one, and would 4.7ohm work as partsconnexion.com only has 4 or 4.7ohm mills resistors. Thanks!

Yes the 4.7 would work. I took the 12uf thats in parallel with the 2.5, completely off. I really dont know why it was there to begin with.

I did it to tone the tweeter down abit. But If I were you I would buy a 3.5ohm and a 4.7, you might think the 4.7 makes the tweeter too quiet, I like my audio "warm". I basicly just copied the 7b's crossover.