TT Cartridge Setup - SRA
jm1
Posts: 618
This is a topic that I did not find in the forum and I thought it deserved its own thread.
Yesterday, I was conducting a little research on setting up a cartridge. I found a thread on AudioAsylum regarding SRA (stylus rake angle). Having setup a cartridge the prior night and getting good results, I decided to try this method.
The VTF was set to 1.95g (recommended 2g) and the tonearm was leveled. I looked at the stylus rake angle with a magnifying glass and noticed it appeared about right. Lowering the tonearm pivot did not produce better results. After slightly raising the pivot, I was able to find the sweet spot mentioned in the post.
There is a significant difference between the prior night’s setup and this latest setup. The biggest improvements are in the overall response at the frequency extremes and the dynamics.
Please note the article has an error the author corrected in a followup post. The stylus angle should be 2 degrees, not 1 degree.
Yesterday, I was conducting a little research on setting up a cartridge. I found a thread on AudioAsylum regarding SRA (stylus rake angle). Having setup a cartridge the prior night and getting good results, I decided to try this method.
The VTF was set to 1.95g (recommended 2g) and the tonearm was leveled. I looked at the stylus rake angle with a magnifying glass and noticed it appeared about right. Lowering the tonearm pivot did not produce better results. After slightly raising the pivot, I was able to find the sweet spot mentioned in the post.
There is a significant difference between the prior night’s setup and this latest setup. The biggest improvements are in the overall response at the frequency extremes and the dynamics.
Please note the article has an error the author corrected in a followup post. The stylus angle should be 2 degrees, not 1 degree.
Arthur SchopenhauerAll truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident.
Post edited by jm1 on
Comments
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jm1 wrote:This is a topic that I did not find in the forum and I thought it deserved its own thread.
Yesterday, I was conducting a little research on setting up a cartridge. I found a thread on AudioAsylum regarding SRA (stylus rake angle). Having setup a cartridge the prior night and getting good results, I decided to try this method.
The VTF was set to 1.95g (recommended 2g) and the tonearm was leveled. I looked at the stylus rake angle with a magnifying glass and noticed it appeared about right. Lowering the tonearm pivot did not produce better results. After slightly raising the pivot, I was able to find the sweet spot mentioned in the post.
There is a significant difference between the prior nights setup and this latest setup. The biggest improvements are in the overall response at the frequency extremes and the dynamics.
Please note the article has an error the author corrected in a followup post. The stylus angle should be 2 degrees, not 1 degree.
I've read this article and many others like this. There is and has been a huge gap in beliefs over SRA and VTA and if either one matters or if one matters and the other doesn't and visa versa. It is like the cables matter debate.
I've done lots of experimenting with VTA and have found that when I want to take the time and adjust the VTA for each record I can find that sweet spot. It is like the entire sound stage and images SNAP into focus. I have a record that I use when I install a new cartridge to get a baseline VTA set.
I choose not to do the VTA thing anymore with each record cause I really would like to listen to more music in my old age so I have found that if I keep the pivot of the tonearm a few degress lower than the stylus it is a good match for most every record. Keep in mind I use an SME Series V tonearm and that arm design is very different from other tonearm designs.
This is my experience. -
The only comment I have is that the stylus should have the correct rake angle relative to the record. Using the recommended VTF provides other benefits. This produced the best results in my instance.
Cheers.
Arthur SchopenhauerAll truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident. -
Right on. . .there are a lot of factors in this best sounding medium!!! LOL We just have to get them right.:)jm1 wrote:The only comment I have is that the stylus should have the correct rake angle relative to the record. Using the recommended VTF provides other benefits. This produced the best results in my instance.
Cheers. -
Tom Fletcher of NAS has said no diamond on the end of a styli is where it should be, so fudge with the VTA until it sounds good, or something like that anyway. Joe knows, he is an old..........timer from way back.:DSalk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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Hey bro, I missed ya!!!SCompRacer wrote:Tom Fletcher of NAS has said no diamond on the end of a styli is where it should be, so fudge with the VTA until it sounds good, or something like that anyway. Joe knows, he is an old..........timer from way back.:D -
Found a page with a good explination of the alignment criteria.
Understanding The Issues Behind Cartridge Alignment
Arthur SchopenhauerAll truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident. -
Excellent thanks!
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The only comment I have is that the stylus should have the correct rake angle relative to the record. Using the recommended VTF provides other benefits. This produced the best results in my instance.
Cheers.
I was messing with the SRA today by increasing and decreasing the VTF, like the VTA when you hit that perfect sweet spot on a record it is like EVERYTHING just snaps into focus. What I noticed most is the heavier the VTF the more the SRA brings the underside or rear side of the stylus tip in contact with the record. As much as I enjoyed hearing these improvements in sound with the increased VTF, I prefer to use the lightest possible VTF recommended by the manufacturer so that I can cut down on record wear. In many, not all, many cases I was able to duplicate the improvement of, that "snap into focus" effect adjusting the VTA. The problem with VTA adjustment is that I believe 4mm of height change at the pivot only give you a degree or two of VTA change. My tonearm runs only a few milimeters off the record surface so if I get down too low at the back of the arm tube and there is a warp in the lead in bead, the arm tube bottoms out.
You will see some cartridge manufacturers stating the VTA. One I just recently encountered said 23 degrees. Now I'm was never good at geometry or trig or math in general let alone those so 23 degrees means nothing to me. I know what 90, 45, 180, 360 are but 23 . .. cut me a break. So because I don't get it, I just have to play with the VTA till it sounds right on which sometimes can be very tedious.
So to sum up. . . set the VTA and VTF to where it sounds good on a 180gm record and leave it at that. I think 180gm is a good average. You have 120, 150, 180, 200, 205 (in rare cases 220) gm records and I have found that 180 gm record thickness is about as middle of the road as you are going to get!
I hope this helps.:) -
Does your tonearm or the cartridge run a couple of mm off the record surface?hearingimpared wrote: »... My tonearm runs only a few milimeters off the record surface so if I get down too low at the back of the arm tube and there is a warp in the lead in bead, the arm tube bottoms out. ...
After reviewing AudioAsylum, Audiogon and elsewhere, some specifically for my ZYX cartridge, I think I will be using the manufacturers recommended VTF (or very close to this value) as this keeps the cantilever end centered in the magnetic field.
As for VTA, I am not overly concerned of its angle; it does not factor into my setup. Apparently, ZYX sets the correct SRA/VTA when the VTF is set to the recommended value and the tonearm/cartridge is level. It has been mentioned that some manufacturers do this while some don’t. I can only rely on their word, as I do I have the desire, now I have heard the ZYX, to experiment setting up a bunch of carts.
I am most interested in having the SRA set to the same verticle grove modulation angle as the cutting head; approximately two degrees. SRA should be about correct when the VTF is set to the recommended value and the tonearm/cartridge is level assuming you are not using any cartridge shims. SRA could then be fine tuned by using the fine VTF adjustments or raising/lowering the pivot. I need to raise/lower the pivot to fine adjust the SRA as my tonearm does not have fine VTF capabilities.
I also used common issue records (150g?) to setup the TT as I only have a couple of 180g records in my collection.
In my prior analog life, I did not have the ability to raise/lower the pivot; I did have fine VTF adjustment. I used the fine VTF to dial in the sound. Now I know what I was trying to accomplish all those years ago.
The above resulted in the best results for MY setup. I am glad you have setup your table to your liking.
Regards.
Arthur SchopenhauerAll truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident. -
Does your tonearm or the cartridge run a couple of mm off the record surface?
After reviewing AudioAsylum, Audiogon and elsewhere, some specifically for my ZYX cartridge, I think I will be using the manufacturers recommended VTF (or very close to this value) as this keeps the cantilever end centered in the magnetic field.
As for VTA, I am not overly concerned of its angle; it does not factor into my setup. Apparently, ZYX sets the correct SRA/VTA when the VTF is set to the recommended value and the tonearm/cartridge is level. It has been mentioned that some manufacturers do this while some don’t. I can only rely on their word, as I do I have the desire, now I have heard the ZYX, to experiment setting up a bunch of carts.
I am most interested in having the SRA set to the same verticle grove modulation angle as the cutting head; approximately two degrees. SRA should be about correct when the VTF is set to the recommended value and the tonearm/cartridge is level assuming you are not using any cartridge shims. SRA could then be fine tuned by using the fine VTF adjustments or raising/lowering the pivot. I need to raise/lower the pivot to fine adjust the SRA as my tonearm does not have fine VTF capabilities.
I also used common issue records (150g?) to setup the TT as I only have a couple of 180g records in my collection.
In my prior analog life, I did not have the ability to raise/lower the pivot; I did have fine VTF adjustment. I used the fine VTF to dial in the sound. Now I know what I was trying to accomplish all those years ago.
The above resulted in the best results for MY setup. I am glad you have setup your table to your liking.
Regards.
This is all great stuff cause we get to try out things that work for other vinyl lovers. . . let's see with a CD you can adjust, um, oh, eh nothing!!!! What you get when you put the thing in the tray is all you get!!! LOL
By the way have you noticed that today's carts compared to 20 years ago call for heavier VTFs on average? -
hearingimpared wrote: »This is all great stuff cause we get to try out things that work for other vinyl lovers. . . let's see with a CD you can adjust, um, oh, eh nothing!!!! What you get when you put the thing in the tray is all you get!!! LOL
Actually ...
Arthur SchopenhauerAll truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident. -
Actually ...
I remember reading that a couple of times!!! BTW I have a $200 Marigo Signature 3D stabilizer mat that I use on my CDs and SACDs. It is still an anticeptic way of tweaking. Analog tweaking is up close and personal and can be damned dangerous after age 50 cause of shaking hands!!! LOL -
Well I just started to really work on tweaking out my analog front end. Just to reinforce what you were saying the Stylus Rake Angle (SRA) is more easily attained by adjusting the vertical tracking down force than the Vertical Tracking Angle (VTA).
I said in a previous thread that I prefer to keep my VTF set to the lower half of the manufacturers suggested VTF range due to less record wear and like to use the VTA to get the SRA in as closely as possible.
Well even with an old tried and true method of using an average thickness LP to dial in the VTA and just use that setting all the time hasn't worked for me. Of late I've been reading a lot of cartridge reviews by some of my favorite reviewers; Art Dudley, Mikey Fremer, & Chris Martens, they all use, when reviewing cartridges, the upper half of the manufacturers recommended range. So I thought what the hell if it works for them, it should work for me.
Dave (Fireman32) was here when I did the first check on this. My Dynavector calls for a VTF of 1.8 to 2.2 gms. I had it and the anti-skating (Horizontal Tracking Force) force set to 1.9 gms. My tonearm allows for easy adjustement of both the VTF and HTF. We listened to the Dire Straits, "Brothers in Arms" 180 gm lp, "Money for Nothing" at the 1.9 VTF. I then changed the VTF & HTF to 2.2. WOW it just snapped into focus. It was just as if I pulled the proverbial blanket off the speaker.
Dave's jaw dropped, I just smiled ear-to-ear. It is by leaps and bounds easier for me to set the SRA than the VTA. I can do it from record to record in a matter of a second or two thus getting the most out of each record.
So boys and girls, I gotta hand it to jm1 for pressing the issue, I'm a complete convert to using the SRA guidelines rather than just the VTA adjustements.
Great stuff!!!
