DTS-HD Master Audio for blu-ray

sickicw

I am going to be buying a blu-ray player soon, but i want to make sure it will decode DTS-HD Master Audio. So far no players do, but i am hoping that the ps3 will add it soon. I know that the Panasonic DMP-BD10 has promised to add this, but it is expensive. Any ideas what i should buy?

cheddar

You're probably asking this question about 6 months too early. Fox seems to be the only studio so far that is producing DTS-MA tracks as standard on all their releases. And the hardware companies are a bit behind the curve as you've noticed. Even the blu-ray movie reviews keep saying that they have no way of knowing the quality of the DTS-MA track. But the core DTS track is great, so they're thinking the DTS-MA track must be awesome...yada yada.

Yes, it's possible for the PS3 to get it at some point. But then with firmware updates, I suppose all the players eventually could. You might want to wait until the summer or fall for new player releases. They should be cheaper than anything else out now too.

If you really want to just get a PS3, they should support this thing for many years to come with firmware updates since they can't just release a new model like they can with stand alones. So that might be the best bet for upgradability and your 3806 has hdmi, right? So you don't have to worry about analog outs on the player since you can use your receiver via hdmi.

The one additional bit of insurance you have is that since the PS3 is hdmi 1.3 compliant, you have the option of upgrading to a DTS-MA decoding receiver or pre-pro as they're released over the next year. But expect to find these only on the higher, pricier models for the likes of denon. Although I think sherwood showed a budget model receiver at CES.

sickicw

So have anyone here used the ps3 for SACD playback over hdmi?

bknauss

DTS-HD Master Audio eats up a TON of space, so don't expect it on a lot of discs. Especially HD-DVD movies!

Get ready for the general public to be confused out of their minds. Just check out the spreadsheet of options on this page: http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/dts-on-bluray-and-hddvd.php

dorokusai

I should create multiple format versions of myself, in varying bit rates, yet by definition...I would be virtually indistiguishable from myself.

I can't wait for the fruit bat/human hybrid that states that the resulting format is amazing and a must have.

dane_peterson

dorokusai wrote:

I can't wait for the fruit bat/human hybrid that states that the resulting format is amazing and a must have.

LoL!

I'm still wanting to try out SACD on my PS3, but I haven't been able to find any good SACD's I'd want to listen to regularly.

sickicw

dane,
what type of music do you like?

dane_peterson

I dunno. I have a pretty broad range, but only like certain artists/bands in each genre.

Some of the favorites are David Bowie, The Eagles, Incubus, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Miles Davis....

JoshParsons84

My boss at the shop was telling me he thinks blu-ray is gonna beat out hd dvd, he said he just doesn't when. Do y'all think that's true? And if so what's a good blu-ray player to have? The Sony or the Pioneer Elite?

MikeC78

JoshParsons84 wrote: »

My boss at the shop was telling me he thinks blu-ray is gonna beat out hd dvd, he said he just doesn't when. Do y'all think that's true? And if so what's a good blu-ray player to have? The Sony or the Pioneer Elite?

The cashier at my local Huck's gas station once told me HD DVD was going to win, I believe him.

I believe the cashier over your boss.

engtaz

It is still a toss up. Blue Ray more studios and PS only problem they just did a change to Blue ray players that might not make earlier player obsolete I believe. HD DVD always maintaining less costly players and has fewer studio support. Beta better VHS cheaper. That was the last round. PS3 sale are slowing and you can pick up one on CL for less then retail.

Good Luck

cheddar

bknauss wrote: »

DTS-HD Master Audio eats up a TON of space, so don't expect it on a lot of discs. Especially HD-DVD movies!

Get ready for the general public to be confused out of their minds. Just check out the spreadsheet of options on this page: http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/dts-on-bluray-and-hddvd.php

This is a standard format for almost ALL movies from FOX. Once the format war settles down, I would expect True-HD and DTS-MA to be the new DTS. Not available on all disks (except for FOX) but really nice to have for HT enthusiasts.

Also, if you get an HDMI 1.3 compatible player, you're covered. 'Cause the nice receivers (and pre/pros eventually) will be coming out soon. These Denon receivers might be announced this summer:

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9689870-1.html

Once they're released, expect things to be like many of us are set up now: player HDMI to the receiver-pre/pro with all the decoding handled there. Looks like there's some hardware chips involved in any case. So it may not be as simple as a firmware update for some players as that means all the decoding will have to be done in software.

JoshParsons84

MikeC78 wrote: »

The cashier at my local Huck's gas station once told me HD DVD was going to win, I believe him.

I believe the cashier over your boss.

Is that meant as an insult, because that's what it feels like to me. We run a Home Entertainement/Security center. I would think the owner of an A/V business would know just a little more than a local gas station worker.:mad:

Quick question: Denon 5910CI, Toshiba HD-XA2, or Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1?

dane_peterson

Deep breath, Josh, good God. Don't just assume everyone knows you work for a Home Entertainment center. The vague comment on your boss was begging to be picked on. If Mike hadn't, I probably would have.

As far as "who's going to win", that topic has been beaten to death. I don't think any one person's opinion is going to play any effect on the battle. This forum seems to be pretty split, with many opting to stay out of it until it is settled.

Also, your question on the DVD players doesn't really pertain to this thread. Do a search, or start a new thread.

PoLk FaN

engtaz wrote: »

It is still a toss up. Blue Ray more studios and PS only problem they just did a change to Blue ray players that might not make earlier player obsolete I believe. HD DVD always maintaining less costly players and has fewer studio support. Beta better VHS cheaper. That was the last round. PS3 sale are slowing and you can pick up one on CL for less then retail.

Good Luck

ps3 sales are far from slowing down if anything there picking up with the UK launch :cool: and with a few big hit games coming out.

WilliamM2

Personally, I think both formats will fail, or at the vaery least be niche markets. The general public doesn't seem to care enough about picture quality to replace their DVD players. Most people I talk to are unaware that HD and Blue Ray even exist.

Reminds me of DVD-A and SACD.

Ron-P

I bought the Sammy, it was the least expensive. This cured my Blu-ray fix until better players hit the market, most likely 3rd gen and then I'll upgrade. Too many unknown's with Blu right now to drop a ton of coin on a player that might be able to decode future audio codecs. I just bought one that can't until I am certain I can buy one that will.

Personally, I think both formats will fail, or at the vaery least be niche markets. The general public doesn't seem to care enough about picture quality to replace their DVD players.

One will survive, people want their HD, that's why more and more HD-TVs are being sold everyday and more and more people add hi-def cable and the like. Everything is moving to HD and hi-def dvd is the next logical step. It will be slow but it will survive.

You cannot compare this war to SCAD / DVD-A. Not a lot of people care or want high quality music, and don't set up entire rooms dedicated to just sound, they want their music portable. But, people want hi-def TV / DVD.

Sherardp

I would buy the player of my choice, and later upgrade your AVR that will decode the newer formats coming out soon. For me since I will be going with a new HT setup I will choose the Denon 4308ci. But whose to say you can't enjoy the high quality audio now over Linear PCM. Audio over linear PCM sounds damn good on both formats.

engtaz

PoLk FaN
PS3 82% drop in sales in UK. Check yahoo

engtaz

cheddar

Sherardp wrote: »

I would buy the player of my choice, and later upgrade your AVR that will decode the newer formats coming out soon. For me since I will be going with a new HT setup I will choose the Denon 4308ci. But whose to say you can't enjoy the high quality audio now over Linear PCM. Audio over linear PCM sounds damn good on both formats.

Even vanilla DD at the higher bitrates sounds damn good. There's a lot there even without the lossless codecs. For anyone going the AVR route, just make sure to get HDMI 1.3. Almost all players out there now simply can't pass lossless audio over hdmi for decoding at the AVR. And this isn't a firmware fixable problem.

bknauss

engtaz wrote: »

PoLk FaN
PS3 82% drop in sales in UK. Check yahoo

engtaz

Although I hate the PS3, its a bit out of place to compare a launch week to the next week. Of course you're going to sell a lot more the launch week compared to weeks after.

LuSh

Just a quick note...

The Toshiba HD DVD players are the only players to my knowledge that have built in decoders and can pass through MPCM to an HDMI 1.2 receiver. The LG Multi Blu can only pass through 2 channel DTS HD Master audio through it's HDMI and 5 channel through it's analog outputs. The Panasonic needs a firmware upgrade (expected in June) Samsung and Sony both don't have internal decoders for any of the new surround formats.

I have experimented with the Toshiba HD players and HDMI receivers, it's the only thing that works that I know of...

The format war is a big time loss for everybody. I can't see either format 'taking' over unless prices are $100 and a person more or less buy's it as an accidental purchase. The benefits to both formats aren't that great to a typical consumer. Trying to explain HD over 720p/1080i upconverting players is a challenge within itself. I don't think people truely understand why HD televisions are moving...the picture is better yes...but the vast majority of consumers would settle for 480i or p if they could still hang it on a wall.

cheddar

LuSh wrote: »

Just a quick note...

The Toshiba HD DVD players are the only players to my knowledge that have built in decoders and can pass through MPCM to an HDMI 1.2 receiver. The LG Multi Blu can only pass through 2 channel DTS HD Master audio through it's HDMI and 5 channel through it's analog outputs. The Panasonic needs a firmware upgrade (expected in June) Samsung and Sony both don't have internal decoders for any of the new surround formats.

I have experimented with the Toshiba HD players and HDMI receivers, it's the only thing that works that I know of...

The format war is a big time loss for everybody. I can't see either format 'taking' over unless prices are $100 and a person more or less buy's it as an accidental purchase. The benefits to both formats aren't that great to a typical consumer. Trying to explain HD over 720p/1080i upconverting players is a challenge within itself. I don't think people truely understand why HD televisions are moving...the picture is better yes...but the vast majority of consumers would settle for 480i or p if they could still hang it on a wall.

Actually the ps3 can decode TrueHD out of the box and pass the multichannel PCM just fine to HDMI 1.1 and above AVRs. It doesn't have analog outs, just about its only drawback compared to a stand-alone. But from the standpoint of what you said the Toshiba players are capable of, it does just fine. And it's HDMI 1.3 to boot.

As for the average person needing to understand the reality of the electronics stuff they buy...phhffft. If this was a requirement, nobody would even have heard of BOSE...lol. The average consumer is moving into HD. Doesn't matter if they even know how to hook it up for HD playback. The stuff is moving. :rolleyes:

dane_peterson

Wholeheartedly agree, Cheddar. I think your "average consumer" is the one that walks into Best Buy, sees amazing picture on the HD sets, and wants it. They may not know how everything works, but they'll invest in it.

Both the average size and the average number of televisions in American households is on a steady incline, and I don't imagine that will change anytime soon. And the vast majority of these sets are HD capable. HDTV took a little while to catch on, but now it's in full bore. The same can be said about High-Def DVD formats. One will eventually win out. Society isn't just going to fully dismiss a higher-resolution movie format.

engtaz

How true. 720p is 1280x720. Check how many HD sets are selling 1024x768.


engtaz

LuSh

Evidence would suggest otherwise gentleman...several manufactures are losing money in order to advance their format...if you think the public cares for higher resolution just ask your buddy at work if he's even heard of Blu Ray or HD DVD...I can count on one hand how many people have even heard of either format let alone can explain it...these same people have no idea what SACD or DVD Audio was either or care about improved quality. Walk into a local Best Buy or Circuit City or Future Shop in Canada and ask the associates how many units they sell a month. Many electronic retailers don't carry either units.

Case in point, audio has suffered greatly, audio receiver sales have dropped by almost 20% in recent years as HTIB and slim line media units have eaten up the bulk of the market share. People don't care about quality as much as they do about lifestyle and this really ties back to my entire point. HD is really heating up as flatpanel is featured in more and more home decorating magazines. The marketplace has changed alot in the 15 years. With flat panel prices dropping another 30-40% this year more and more people are attracted to the lifestyle purchase.

Unless company's are willing to battle until prices for hi-rez players are no more then $100 street price I can't see how either format will win. Most of my friends don't even use component video to their SDTV's, will these people spend $300 - $500 on a hi-rez player? The only reason they bought DVD in the first place is because they liked the idea of not rewinding, extra disc features and longer lifespan. The picture quality to them was a bonus.

Cheddar I have tried the PS3 and while I could decode 5.1 LPCM I couldn't find any codec tabs which indicated TrueHD, when I enabled PCM output from the PS3 my receiver was only detecting 48kHz from the source disc.

dane_peterson

LuSh, I understand where you're going with this. That being said, when has hardware ever really made that much money? Many companies have taken drastic losses on their hardware equipment to support the larger picture and make advances on a format. Video game systems are a prime example.

On top of that, those who have familiarized themselves with the two formats are probably not willing to pay full price at the large retailers when they can save a couple hundred buying online.

On an entirely different note... regarding TrueHD. My guess is the TrueHD audio option won't be listed until a certain update is released through Sony. I'd expect it to just show up in a couple months.

MikeC78

What does TrueHD matter in a BD player when the software isn't encoded with it? How many BD movies are out with TrueHD?

Now, with HD DVD, that's a different story.

dane_peterson

MikeC78 wrote: »

What does TrueHD matter in a BD player when the software isn't encoded with it? How many BD movies are out with TrueHD?

None that I know of yet, which is why I imagine it's not a selectable option.

Ron-P

if you think the public cares for higher resolution just ask your buddy at work if he's even heard of Blu Ray or HD DVD...I can count on one hand how many people have even heard of either format let alone can explain it...

Ask them again in a year. I bet they'll have heard of it by then. You need to give it time. HD-DVD has been out for almost a year, Blu-ray, half that. New formats never catch on fast with the general public, there pretty clueless when it comes to stuff like this. DVD did not catch on fast either and the players were just as pricey, even more pricey, when they first streeted.

cheddar

The first TrueHD from Sony will be released in May, I believe. That's why the most recent firmware update enabled full support for TrueHD for the ps3.

http://blogs.ign.com/chubigans/2007/03/17/49558/

So maybe it's just that you didn't upgrade the firmware recently?

However, blu-ray disks have been getting a lot of love from the beginning with uncompressed PCM 5.1 tracks from sony and disney. These tracks don't have any of the decoding hassles but are arguably the equal of trueHD in SQ.

http://blogs.ign.com/chubigans/2006/12/29/41597/

With Sony itself finally releasing trueHD tracks, I would expect support for this format in future BD players released in the summer and beyond. But it is my understanding that the 1.6 firmware update enabled the full codec for the ps3.

As for the knowledge vs. sales thing, I can only go by what I've seen people do over and over again. I have a brother who spent $3000 on an installed BOSE sound system for his house. He said he heard a denon or something system at a friend's house once and I asked him which he thought was better his or the speakers hooked up to the denon. He looked at me like I was an idiot. 'Cause of course his BOSE system was more advanced than anything else on the market and that's why he paid the big bucks for it. The same brother views 480i in stretch mode and asks me to marvel at the HD his 50" plasma is capable of. I've stopped trying to correct him, 'cause he still thinks I'm the one who doesn't understand that if the image fills the screen, it must be HDTV. Nothing's getting in the way of his purchasing rationale.

I also have a friend who has a 1024x768 TV and brags to anyone who will listen to him that his 768p TV is better than any 720p HDTV. My point being that besides the 'lifestyle' choice of having a flat wall mountable TV, HDTV sales are also being driven by a basic male bragging rights mentality. It's more of a marketing hurdle than anything else. Sure, people don't understand the tech well enough now to make a good purchasing decision. But they don't have to. Marketing money only has to make them think it's BOSE video and HD players will catch on. Just my opinion, but it comes from trying to reason with people like my brother with marketing hype always winning in the end.