New Polk Home theater

chimera

Hi Guys..Help!

I'm renovating my basement. I have a multi-purpose room approx 14 1/2 feet by 13 feet (dimensions including "hall" but not including stairs etc) for a planned 7.1 system.

I'm looking at the following speakers:
CSi3, RTi6 in front, PSW303 sub,

I'm not sure about the rear and sides FXi3's or RTi4's? Where can I place them?
Thanks
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... is for carpet
X are foundation posts
C is a planned couch
M are stairs going down to the right

Dennis Gardner

Welcome to club Polk!

I would run 5.1 since your sides and rears (both work best behind the seating area) in a 7 channel rig would be too close to each other. Even in a 5 channel setup you may be forced to go with speakers above or right behind the couches corners, due to the staircase. I would go with the FX surrounds if the placement is close to the couch, since they tend to disperse sound better.

You may fair better swapping ends with your gear.

chimera

Thanks for the reply.

Why 5.1? I'm trying to prepare for DTS-HD and Dolby True HD which are 7.1

As for switching ends, you mean moving the couch where the TV is? If so, why?

Also, would moving the couch away from the wall help in any way (ie 7.1)?
Thanks

Dennis Gardner

Simply put, 7.1 works best in long rooms, not square ones. The surround effect isn't really effective unless there is a decent distance betweens sides and rears, to give nice front to rear action pans. They work best when the sides are about halfway between the fronts and rears and slightly behind the seating area, and in your room that puts your couch only 6-8 feet from the TV.

Around here as on most HT forums, the majority prefer a great 5 channel setup over a 7 channel rig with compromises.

As for need for 7 channel sound in the future?.........currently only a couple hundred movies have 7 channel sound of the 20,000 or so released. Even the newest releases have less than 5% of the discs contain the extended formats.

hearingimpared

Welcome to the club, I like your diagram.

dane_peterson

I agree with above posts.

1) Put your couch where you planned on putting your TV.

2) 5.1 makes a lot more sense. FXi3's will give a more enveloping surround sound, which I would put to either side of the sofa.

3) Do not throw a dime at a Polk sub. They are simply not good at all. Check out SVS's PB10 or HSU Research's VTF2 MK3 for good deals on excellent subs.

chimera

Thanks for the opinions people!

Why are polk subs so bad??? I listened to the PSW10 at Futureshop with the setup and it sounded pretty good! I was planning on upgrading to the PSW303.
The HSU Mk 3 is said to be for "large rooms"...wouldnt the Mk2 be a better choice?
Thanks

chimera

Hi. I read up on the SVS PB10 and it looks like a winner. What does everyone think of it in combo with RTi6's, CSi3 in front, FXi3's in rear?
Thanks

Dennis Gardner

SVS, or HSU both make great subs that will stand the torture of HT use and sound good on music.

chimera

If I were to knock down the wall behind the TV (see diagram above), that would give me about a 13 1/2 x 22 foot room. the problem are the support posts. Would that affect the sound much?
thanks

cheddar

Chimera,

The problem you are running into is the asymetry of your room. That large open space to one side vs. the sealed wall on the other is not ideal for the sound coming off your l/r speaker sets. You will get differences between all sets of speakers.

If it were me, I'd actually put the couch between and just in front of the foundation posts facing the long wall. Then you will have a solid symetrical space for your front sound stage. You can put fx type speakers directly to the side of the couch mounted high on the wall for best effect. Then you still have the option of mounting a set of rear back speakers behind the couch on the hall wall. The speakers in the hall will of course be somewhat compromised because of all the irregularities of the hall. But this should be more than made up for by better placement options for your fronts and side surrounds.

My two cents anyways.

VSchneider

What about mounting the right surround speaker on the foundation post that's to the right of your couch? That may work well for 5.1 with the diagram you posted.

Also, if you follow cheddar's advice above (the couch between and slightly ahead of the posts) it will be very similar to my basement layout on a smaller scale - works reasonably well.

chimera

SO, what happens if I were to change it like this (ie knock the wall down) where the TV used to be. Now it is a room 13 1/2 by 22 feet, with 2 posts, marked by the X's. I would put in an angled wall with a door in, where I wrote "door"
M = stairs goingdown to the right

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thomask

So, if I have a 7.1 system ordered and ready to go, will I not get 7.1 sound out of a dvd? Will the rear speakers put anything out if it's not 7.1 dvd? Did I waste my money? I just purchased 2 rti8, csi5, 2 rti4 rears, and 2 fxi5 sides. The above post concerns me a bit, any advice would be helpful.

thomask

Oh, here's a link to my basement plan
http://www.freewebs.com/thomas-shms/DOLLHOUSE%20VIEW.pdf
Will this be a good setup for 7.1?

cheddar

thomask wrote:

So, if I have a 7.1 system ordered and ready to go, will I not get 7.1 sound out of a dvd? Will the rear speakers put anything out if it's not 7.1 dvd? Did I waste my money? I just purchased 2 rti8, csi5, 2 rti4 rears, and 2 fxi5 sides. The above post concerns me a bit, any advice would be helpful.

Receivers and processors have settings that will take 5.1 surround information and create back surround information so all 7 speakers will be active. So don't worry about not using your rears.

What's missing currently is a lot of material that has discreet information specifically for the back surround speakers. The LOTR trilogy is one example that has it. In this case 6.1 information with the back surround channel information going to both back speakers.

However, the new high-def formats are supposed to be designed for 7.1 and even higher configurations. It's just a matter if the studios decide to use it or not. But even HD-DVD and Blu-ray tracks are commonly 5.1 at the present time.

So it's not a waste. You will get a much more full surround experience even with only 5.1 tracks. But the real payoff will be if and when the studios master more material with a discreet back surround track.

cheddar

chimera wrote:

SO, what happens if I were to change it like this (ie knock the wall down) where the TV used to be. Now it is a room 13 1/2 by 22 feet, with 2 posts, marked by the X's. I would put in an angled wall with a door in, where I wrote "door"
M = stairs goingdown to the right

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So one solid, long rectangular room except for the posts and the funny corner. If you're willing to go through the trouble, that would be the sweetest set-up. Of course now the further back your couch is, the bigger your TV should be.

I would move the theater forward of the door so that all speakers and seating is well within the rectangular space and get creative with the placements of seating and speakers so that everything is clear of that one post in the middle. You can mount the back surrounds from ceiling mounts for the most flexible placement or just hang them on the back wall for less work.

But now you've got room for more than one row of seating and a bar and popcorn machine in the back.

Sweet...:D.

dane_peterson

The ideal display size for a 20' viewing distance is 96". (Obviously you still wouldn't want the couch against the back wall, but this # is just for reference)

This would be a perfect layout for a projector theater, and you could even do a couple rows. I support this design.

chimera

So here is my tentative layout then:

22 x 10 rm (when you "take out the post, 22 x 13 1/2)
CCCC=couch
TVTV = TV
MMM = stairs
XX = post
WW = small bsmt windows
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cheddar

I actually had it flipped with the TV on the opposite wall. It's most important for the front sound stage to be as close to ideal as possible. And that one RTi6 looks almost like it's corner loaded by the door. Give the RTi's more breathing room by flipping the set-up. The surround backs really don't need that much separation and are much less critical being used mostly for ambient effects and not crucial dialog or heavy hitting effects.

The side surrounds should be even with the sides of the couch, if possible, since the effects sounds are mixed as if they were in that position or even behind the listening position.

chimera

cheddar wrote:

I actually had it flipped with the TV on the opposite wall. It's most important for the front sound stage to be as close to ideal as possible. And that one RTi6 looks almost like it's corner loaded by the door. Give the RTi's more breathing room by flipping the set-up. The surround backs really don't need that much separation and are much less critical being used mostly for ambient effects and not crucial dialog or heavy hitting effects.

The side surrounds should be even with the sides of the couch, if possible, since the effects sounds are mixed as if they were in that position or even behind the listening position.

I can see your point but there is a window at the other side which would be partially blocked by the HT / TV setup

cheddar

Who needs windows? A home theater should be nice and dark with a small bit of ambient light behind the screen. Sounds perfect to me...;)