High powered vintage recievers

powerlord

I was looking on ebay for a power amp and found a Marantz 2500 for sale and the bid was at a staggering price,then I saw it was 250 wpc.I didn't know companies made such high powered recievers back in the 70's.Were they clean real power? And how many companies made them like this?:)

dragon1952

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:Z9-fdzCU9OYJ:www.thevintageknob.org/THEVAULT/2500/2500.html+marantz+2500&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us

Yeah, it says here 'they didn't sell many at $1600'. That was quite a chunk o change. Pioneer had a 160WPC in their 'SX' lineup ...the SX-1250, but the wattage war had just started. I bought my SX-1050 in around 1976. It was a beefy 120WPC and heavy! Most of the Marantz receivers were lower powered than the competitors at that time (and more expensive), but I always had wished I had bought one of the Marantz' instead. I got the Pioneer SX-1050 for around $370 when I was overseas. I forget how much more the 1250 was but I think it was around $100 more maybe?
http://www.silverpioneer.netfirms.com/SX-1250.htm
The Marantz 2270 was only 70WPC and probably at around $540.
The 1050 was running around $700 in the States and the 1250 was probably around $900, so quite a bit less than the Marantz 2500.

I actually bought a 2270 a few years back for nostalgia's sake. That was a sweet receiver that I wished I had kept. I still do have a 2230 and at 30WPC it's pretty beefy. I can imagine what that 2500 was like.

TroyD

IMHO, the money that is changing hands for those receivers is ridiculous. You can get MUCH better sound, cheaper.

Vintage Marantz is cool and sounds good. The rest of them, take 'em or leave 'em.

BDT

mhardy6647

Yes: clean, real power, and beefily built, too (often with dual power supplies and toroidal power transformers)... but IMNSHO the "power wars" receivers were generally built to impress, not to be listened to. Since on most speakers most listening is done at average power levels far below the continuous output possible (per FTC specification) from these monsters, they are not at their best in the real world.

They are collectors' pieces now for folks -- like me -- who couldn't dream of affording them back then, but can now. And, no, I don't collect them -- although I do have a Pioneer SX-1050... "just for looks" :-)

On paper, the all-time champion was the Technics SA-1000 at 330 wpc per FTC spec. Like the other Technics (Panasonic) receivers of its era, though, it was rather cheaply built compared to the massmarket competition.



In practice, the sentimental favorites are probably the Pioneer SX-1980 at 270 wpc or the Marantz 2600 at 300 wpc. The Marantz had an under-rated power supply and the power transformers are notoriously fragile.



I suspect that the best of the lot was the extremely rare Yamaha CR-3020... but I've never heard one of those. I have a CR-2020, and it is pretty nice.

I can dig up & post info on the SX-1980 and CR-3020 if anyone's particularly interested.

EDIT: Here's a borrowed photo of a CR-3020 (sorry it's not too good).

powerlord

Very interesting,I like the look of the old recievers.Thanks. I just might start collecting.Now I see where the tuner wheel comes from on my Marantz!

madmax

Old receivers are cool looking for sure! I love that clean silver look!
madmax

mhardy6647

Good info and sexy peectures of the Yamahas at The Vintage Knob:
http://www.thevintageknob.org/YAMAHA/YAMAHA-main.html

mhardy6647

Now I see where the tuner wheel comes from on my Marantz!

Well, the "Gyro-Touch" tuning predates the late-1970's Marantz. AFAIK it first appeared on the first Marantz solid state receivers, the Models 18 (1968) and 19.

see:
http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/0018.html
http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/0019.html

ledhed

Well, the TOTL Pioneer SX-1980 had 270 wpc and it younger brother (I have one actually), the SX-1280 had 180 wpc. I also have a 1250 which has 160 wpc.

The problem with many of the older receivers is that noise was backfed into the circuit in order to drop the THD. Not quite the best method...

danger boy

I just picked up a little powerhouse of a vintage rig for $12.99 at the local GW.
very nice and powerful Sansui 7070 they can be found everywhere these days for next to nothing.

I don't know about all your nay sayers.. but this is a very good sounding little Sansui. I gotta say.. matched up with my monitor 7B's. this little bugger can rock it hard. I think the Sansui is like only 50 or 60wpc. but damn heavy. For $13.00 how can you go wrong?

Plus the coolness factor of all that silver !!!! and analog VU meters.

JimBRICK

jumpin, those would be awesome for a 2 channel rig right now

danger boy

they just don't make that good of looking receivers today..

Also, while it's true i'm not going to ditch my whole HT seperates and replace it with a $13 GoodWill receiver.. but I do appreciate the workmanship and quality that went into these old beauties. Most of these will not sound as good or as clean as a $3800 Marantz receiver of today, or anything in that league, but matched with the right speakers, these little vintage receievers/components can hold their own, given their age.

hearingimpared

danger boy wrote:

they just don't make that good of looking receivers today..

Also, while it's true i'm not going to ditch my whole HT seperates and replace it with a $13 GoodWill receiver.. but I do appreciate the workmanship and quality that went into these old beauties. Most of these will not sound as good or as clean as a $3800 Marantz receiver of today, or anything in that league, but matched with the right speakers, these little vintage receievers/components can hold their own, given their age.

Don't forget to balance one of the speakers on that bad boy!:p

285exp

When I was in college I had a summer job at an electronics store that carried Marantz. The owner of the store let a very good customer borrow the display model 2500 while his own, much less powerful, receiver was in the shop (It wasn't like we actually sold many of them). A few days later the man brought in a speaker with the woofer blown out of the surround and the foam speaker grill charred and asked me to get the other equally destroyed one out of his car. It turned out that he had been listening to some records and noticed that the sound was muffled, even with the volume turned up pretty high. He checked the turntable and saw that the stylus had a big ball of fuzz on it so, without turning the volume down, he raked his finger across the stylus to remove the fuzz. After a very brief, very loud noise followed by silence, the voice coils caught fire which then spread to the grills. We did get to sell him a nice new set of speakers though.

avguytx

danger boy wrote:

tMost of these will not sound as good or as clean as a $3800 Marantz receiver of today, or anything in that league, but matched with the right speakers, these little vintage receievers/components can hold their own, given their age.

BUT, given these receivers are 30+/- years old, it is surprising how good they DO sound in comparison. And, if you take one of the larger ones and spend a little money re-capping the board (output stage, power supply, etc) you will be amazed how it actually DOES compare to these more expensive receivers. Especially if you take the inflation calculator in to play. I've heard a re-done SX-1250 (160wpc), an SX-1980 (270wpc...was mine) that sounded every bit as good as some of the new gear I rep (Sunfire). Quite scary, actually. I own older Carver amps that have been redone by Rita (who is with Sunfire now) and they are quite amazing for the money. A pair of M-1.0t's bridged running around 700wpc or so....nice.

danger boy

Agreed avguyTX. a few weeks ago i got to hear a Pioneer SX 838 that had been completly rebuilt.. and oh my.. did that receiver sound nice. It had some of the best sounding soundstage I had ever heard from a receiver.. new or used. It was sweet.

Of course not all vintage gear sounds great.. there are some real dogs out there too.. and even pumping in $ to upgrade or mod them.. won't make them sound that good.

avguytx

That's true. Where there were a couple of good sounding ones, there were many that weren't and were just part of the "receiver power wars" of the 70's that were more focused on a BIG power number versus sound quality. It just gave them an advertising slogan, basically. I will say that my favorite "old silver" receiver I have is a Concept 2.5 rated at 25wpc. It is one amazing little ****. I would really like to find a Concept 16.5 (165wpc). THAT receiver when running right literally will give ANY components a run for the money. I think the guy who designed them was Richard Shramm (sp?) who later founded Parasound. Not a bad history.

adam2434

While not a high power (monster) receiver of the late 70's, thought I'd mention the Sansui Eight (circa '71-73) I picked up for basically nothing a few months ago. At 60 wpc, it was pretty powerful for its day. Heavy (close to 40 lbs) and built well.

Most of these receivers have very good tuners, as FM was a priority back then. Hell, without an antenna, this thing was pulling in stations in my basement. Try that with a modern receiver.

I was also impressed with it's sound quality when I briefly hooked it up to my LS90s. It sounded much more powerful and dynamic than my Pioneer Elite HT receiver for 2 channel. It sounded close to my separate, much more powerful amps. And this is with the original, tired caps.

I was planning to recap it, but other projects have been priority.

mhardy6647

FWIW, here's a photo of my Yamaha CR-2020.

danger boy

Ahhhh yes, the heyday of stereo receivers.... campared to the black Yammie, well, there is no comparison in terms of looks. that silver bullet wins every time for looks.