Cool Running Surround Amp

Gaara

Ok round two, I asked this question about 9 months ago and got some good responses, but things are a little different now. Then was a 2 channel amp for a pair of Gallo Dues, small speakers with 3in drivers running at 8ohms as back surrounds. Now I need at least a 4 channel amp to run a pair of Gallo Reference AVs and a pair of Gallo Reference Centers. These both are 88db efficient, 8ohm, have 4x4in drivers + tweeter, and will be crossed over at 80hz.

I am looking for a cool running amp, it could be 2 stereo amps or a 4/5 channel amp I have no preference. I would prefer to stay away from mono blocks as I really don't have the available outlets. I am making a new stand and have space available for any amps but smaller would be better...because if the new amp is small I can make the new stand smaller. Budget is $1500 this time instead of $500. I would prefer at least 100wpc.

So what are some ideas for a 2/4/5 channel amp(s) that runs cool with 100wpc for less then $1500?

Ideas so far include:

Rotel 1070 x 2
Rotel 1080 x 2
Rotel 1075
Rotel 1095
PS Audio Trio x 2
Outlaw 7500
Sherbourn 5/1500
Cinenova Grande 3
Sunfire Cinema Grand

Any others to add to the list? I am leaning towards the Trios because they are so dam small and cool, only 3in h x 8.5in w each plus they seem to run cold. I actually got a good deal on one on Agon and will try it out. If I don't like it I can sell it for the same amount I paid for.

The Cinenova Grande 3 would be great except it is so freaking big, but I have a spare channel from my 5 I could use to give me the four I need.

The 1070 I already have and am pretty happy with it, but I always wonder what a 1080 would be like.

So just wondering on others opinions on these amps and any others I should add to the list. I added a pic of the stand, the 1070 wouldn't be in there unless I want with 2 of them. The shelves are adjustable, but I want to keep the amp on the right side below the Cinenova. Thanks.

Jared

Huck344

I love my Sunfire Cinema Grand. Runs cool too. I got it used for $1200

venomclan

Hi Jared,
I think that in the end you will just not be happy, the best thing to do is just send me the Gallos.

I think it really depends on budget, as most of the amps you listed will do well. I have also been hearing good things about Emotiva LPA1 for $500 you cannot go wrong.
Venom

doug lang

I would second on the Sunfire. I live in Fl, and a cool running here is sweat. I also have a Rotel 991 2 channel. That gives off some heat.

Gaara

Huck344,

Thanks for the info, the sunfires I have seen have all been going for $1250-1300. I'll be sure to wait it out to find one for $1200 or less.

Doug lang,

I can't imagine the cambridge s-300s would be a harder load then the LSis, and correct me if I am wrong but the Sunfire powers the Lsis while the rotel powers the cambridge? If it is running cool in Florida with those then it would be fine in CT with my Gallos. I am also surprised to see the Rotel heats up, it must just be the newer ones that run cool to the touch. Thanks for the info.

Venom,

Not going to be happening any time soon, sorry bud. As for the Emotiva I actually have read some amazing reviews on this unit. The main things I didn't like is the look, that its only 125wpc (not that big of a deal), and that it is 7 channels (it just doesn't seem right to waste the channels). Even so it is a hell of a deal for $500 and I will take it into consideration, thanks.

Jared

MillerLiteScott

Use the extra channels for Bi-amping.

TN_Polk_Lover

doug lang wrote:

I would second on the Sunfire. I live in Fl, and a cool running here is sweat. . .

I'm sure you probably meant "sweet", but it seemed like a nice play on words with it as "sweat". LOL

JoshParsons84

http://www.sunfire.com/TGA7400.html

That is my opinion. But I dont know how much it is.

reeltrouble1

another for the Sunfire.

RT1

miner

Take a look at the Rotel RB-1077 - 100 wpc X 7. A very conservative rating.

Gaara

List has been shortened:

Rotel 1080 x 2
Rotel 1095
PS Audio Trio x 2
Cinenova Grande 3
Sunfire Cinema Grand

I must have read 5-7 pro reviews on the Sunfires and a whole lot of consumer reviews. So far I like what I hear, plenty of power, great dynamics, great bass, and runs cold...not cool but cold with no fans or heatsinks. I also read the 15pg tech paper on their site, very cool. If a good deal comes up on one of these I will snag it and try it out, worst case I don't like it and can sell it back for what I paid.

JoshParsons84,

MSRP looks like $4500, theres one on Agon for $3500...a little out of my price range. On the plus side I didn't like the sunfires because they were 19in wide, but as it turns out certain ones are 19 and certain onew 17. I would probably be looking at a used 5200 which should be <1500.

RT1,

Noted, thats 3 on this thread and I think 2 in my 2ch thread 9 months ago. I think you guys are trying to tell me something.

Miner,

The RB-1077 looks to be quite the unit but is a little low on power and high on power for my taste. Theres on on Agon for $1800 right now which is a little out of my budget. I will be trying the PS Audio Trio though which if I recall correctly uses the same IcePower modules as the 1077 does...just in stereo instead of 7ch. Thanks for the input though.

JoshParsons84

Hey since we're talking about Sunfire does anybody have any experience with their pre/pro's and their subs? I kinda like Emotiva's new pre/pro the DMC-1. It has each individual preout and input labeled for like DVD, satellite, CD and everything. It's the first time I've seen it like that since HTiB. Does anybody have any experience with either of these pre/pro's?

JoshParsons84

Hey guys I was looking at Earthquake Cinenova Grande amps and I stumbled upon their speakers. I was looking at theirPlatine Noiree and was wondering if anybody has had any experience with these?

dorokusai

Gaara - How about an Anthem MCA-3??? I have one handy and for WAY less than 1500.

Gaara

Been doing more reading and I think it is down to getting another Cinenova, going with a Sunfire, or going with two Trios...but I am leaning towards the first to. Of course I have a Trio in the mail should be here today, so I can compare and contrast to the Nova then decide if I want to go that route or seek alternatives. I've got time, I hope to be able to find a <1200 sunfire or wait it out for a cheap Nova...missed out on one 6 months ago on ebay for $1000 shipped.

JoshParsons84,

When I was looking for a processor a few years ago the Sunfire units were highly regarded, and were in my top 3. Long story short I ended up getting a great deal on a B&K Ref 50 and have been happy with it ever since. I don't know how much the Sunfires have changed in the last few years, so I can't really attest to how they sound now. The Emotiva units have been getting great reviews, most recently over at Audioholics, but I have no experience with them.

As for the Earthquake speakers, I read one positive review a while back but have not heard of a single person who has purchased them. My dealer listened to their higher end Titan speakers and came back impressed, but not worth it for the money ($20,000/pr). He said they were not the most impressive speakers he has heard, but they were the most expensive.

Doro,

Thanks for the offer but I will have to pass. The only 3ch I can see myself getting is the Earthquake, since they use monoblock amps. I could use the 5th unused channel from my current amp with the 3ch cinenova to get the 4ch I need, plus it would sound exactly the same since the modules are identical for the 3 and 5 channel amps.

Jared

Gaara

I got a little time to play around with my new Trio, for those who don't know it is PS Audios entry level amp, using 100wpc IcePower. I don't really have the ability to do a proper comparison, basiaclly the Trio is above my Cinenova and I am hooking each amp up to an output of my pre. To compare I play a track, stop it, switch the speaker wires to the other amp, and play it again. The CD I am using isn't really "audiophile" material, but I know it well, it is A Perfect Circle - Thirteenth Step mainly the 3rd track "The Noose". It is a slow song with some nice drums percussion and singing mixed in.

I didn't notice any larger differences between the nova and the trio, mainly volume, noise, and bass. The Trio is more sensitive then the nova, and playing test tones it is 4db higher with the same output. This was easy to adjust since my pre is adjustable in 2db increments, I just made sure to turn the knobs 2 clicks between switches.

The noise is surprisingly more prevelant in the Trio then the nova. I thought part of icepower was simple signal paths and few parts to gunk up the signal. With the nova switched in I have to have my head at the tweeter to hear anything, with the trio I can hear noise about 2ft away. Given this isn't a huge deal but it is surprising, especially since I am using a passive pre so the noise has to be coming from the Trio.

Third difference is bass, this is where the Trio seems to excel. The bass has more presence and more kick to it, the drums seem to have more oomph with the trio...which was another shocker. I would have imagined a 140lb 300wpc amp would have more bass power then a 8lb 100wpc amp...but I guess not. I am still not sure if I prefer the extra bass...as my response was pretty dam good below 120hz with the nova, only a couple small troughs. I will have to do some testing tomorrow to see what is causing the extra bass presence.

Besides those three I can't hear any big differences between them. The treble seems to be a little recessed with the Trio, but other than that they seem quite similar. I'll test more tomorrow but I might be holding onto this one...we shall see.

Jared

dorokusai

Jared - No problem, you'll get something neat I'm sure

venomclan

Gaara wrote:

A Perfect Circle - Thirteenth Step mainly the 3rd track
Jared

Awesome album.

"Lay your head down, go to sleep to the rythm of the war drums.

"Tilling my own grave to keep me level"...

JoshParsons84

I liked Mer De Noms better. I thought it was a better album, especially Judith. That was one of the best Tool/Perfect Circle songs period.

venomclan

JoshParsons84 wrote:

I liked Mer De Noms better. I thought it was a better album, especially Judith. That was one of the best Tool/Perfect Circle songs period.

MDN was very good, but I think 13th step was far superior. Tool is a whole different ball game. Different genre and style. My favoriite band. While I find all Tool songs to be great, some are just off the charts and have no equal (Reflection, Third Eye, Jimmy, ****, Right in Two....)


Oh yeah, Jared, just get some Halcro amps and call it a day

JoshParsons84

Eulogy, Forty Six & 2, Sober.....there's just so many good ones....Prison Sex, H.,

JoshParsons84

Tool is far better than Perfect Circle I think. But I like more harder rock then melodic rock, also.

venomclan

I am sad to see APC go. While they were more mellow, they still drove the point home hard with a simple melody. APC was a more mature, everyman meets his demise kind of genre. Almost like an expected fate, still reaching the depths and darkness of madness and psyche.

Tool, goes beyond to a metaphysical state. Another step in the journey, a hybrid alter self. More layers.

Maynard is a genius on both accounts.

Gaara

Wow were all over the place, I love it. I personally prefer MDN but thirteenth step was much better sonically. It is one of my favorite test discs because of the vocals and the drums mainly. I generally use tracks 1, 3, and 11...and love 12. 11 has very deep slow bass which I love, 1 and 3 is much faster and tighter.

I also use Emotiva sometimes, again good sound quality on most of the tracks...but overall a stranger cd. There are a bunch of songs on here that I love, but also some that I just skip over.

As for tool, I haven't listened to them much...but have always wanted to. Its probably because (very childish) a ex used to listen to them all the time so whenever I hear them I think of her. Of course its all good now, that was 6 years ago...but I never got around to listening to them. Hell I just started finally really listening to NIN, a band which every song I ever heard I loved.

Oh yeah amps thats what this thread was about, if anyone cars I found no discernible difference from 16hz-120hz between the two. I played each and level adjusted for each and found no more then 1db difference on some freqs, but this could be to rounding error. So in this instance I am definitely hearing a difference, but can't seem to measure one.

And wow I didn't realize that A Perfect Circle broke up...where was I?

Jared

venomclan

Hi Jared,
Sorry to hi-jack the thread, but glad to see that you are a APC fan. 13th step I find to be a very good demo cd. It can be very delicate and also hard and fast.

If you like APC, you owe it to yourself to get some Tool. Same singer as APC (MJK) and incredible. Tool are the kings of very deep slow bass. They have a creeping low frequency that is very layered. Some of the best channel seperation I have heard and a flow that is almost unmatched. I took Tool along with me when I demoed the B&W 804's and the Gallo 3.1's. If they can handle Tool, they can handle anything.

As for NIN, I was really into them up until Downward Spiral. Excellent CD, I even wrote a paper about it in college. I have to get seom of their newer stuff. Trent Reznor is also a genius and he and Maynard were at one time working on something together.

APC is no more, they put out a cover album after 13th step I have not heard. I think APC was cutting too much into Tool's time, since it was a project band they let it die. Too bad. Maynard's mother Judith died also in the last few years and you can see where he mentions her in Tool and APC albums.

Gallo is coming out with a new reference tower soon.
I still think that you should upgrade your front speakers and send the 3.1's to me

Gaara

Venom,

What do you recomend for my first Tool cd? I have been meaning to check them out but like I said before just never got around to it.

Salesmen look at you like you have three heads when you try and do that, I remember driving 2hrs to the closest dealer a while back to demo the LSi9s (before tweeter had them). If I recall correctly I brought APC 13th Step, Cold 13 ways to bleed on stage, Cold Year of the Spider, and Finger eleven...can't remember which. The guy surprisingly really liked the Cold cds.

The cover album you are referring to is Emotiva, it has some good songs but isn't consistent. It has some slower stuff and then some really heavy songs, but its still good. My least favorite of the three though.

The new Gallos you are referring to are the 5Ls, their big freaking line stages with cdt over mid, and midranges in the back to do bass. Two reasons you won't be getting my 3.1s, first the 5ls is supposed to be at least $10,000...and I'm no JoeyV and can't afford $10,000 speaks while attending college. Maybe once I graduate...but that leads to reason number 2, which is thier massivness. They are 6.5ft, now I wouldn't want to be upstaged by speakers that are taller then me, thinner, and better looking...but thats not the issue. The issue would be my ceiling that goes from 7ft 8in to 4ft, which these speakers would be a 3rd of the way down, putting them around 6ft of ceiling space. No can do.

But hey on the bright side I gotta plenty of dues to sell, if you wanted to pull the trigger on a all gallo setup. Plus the SA may be on the chopping block...hell thats how this whole thing started. I finally tried using the Cinenova to amp the second voice coil of the Gallos instead of the SA...and it worked great. If it wasn't for that this whole thread wouldn't exist.

Jared

venomclan

Hi Jared,
All the Tool CD's are great, they all have a similar stye but are different in their own ways. My favorite are Undertow, Anema and Lateralus. I just sent you a pm.

When I went to demo the Gallo's, I had the shop all to myself for about 2 hours. I listened to a bunch of stuff including Tool. I had a salesman who hung around near me, he was older but liked the music I was playing. The owner of the shop was sitting about 50ft. from the Gallos but at 90 degrees to them, because of the 300 degree tweeter, he heard every song I played. I played Stadium Arcadium, Chili Peppers and he cound not beleive that it was not a hi-res recording. He loved it.

When you said Emotiva, I thought you were talking about the LPA1 amp. lol

I am only joking about the 3.1's, I know they are your babies. I can totally see them as my next step in looks and sound. My wife even liked them when I showed them the picture, she said they look art deco. The 5Ls is actually 11K and are very tall. I am curious about the bass specs. More like Maggies than 3.1's.

I will go all Gallo, but not sure when. Please put me in line when you plan to sell the Dues and the SA amp.
Question: Are you using an outboard crossover with the Earthquake? If not, how are you doing it?
V

Gaara

Venom,

Not to shabby, I only had the shop for half an hour and then they closed on us. Supposed to be open until 7 (on a weekday mind you) but the owner requested they close early because there was some family thing going on. Weird.

11k eh? A little out of my budget, but hey I've got no urge to upgrade. Im shopping around for different amps and such just because my configuration keeps changing, not because I'm unhappy with the sound. I would love to hear them though just to see what a line stage sounds like.

Good that the wife likes them, everyone who has seen mine is very polarized. Some say they look strange/alien, others say they are like modern art. The SA is sitting in my basement boxed up and pics taken. I got plenty of other stuff to sell first though, so that and the dues will be farther down the road.

As for using the Earthquake, this is still up in the air. I currently am using the crossover on the earthquake itself, each channel has a lowpass or highpass filter which can be bypassed. The main issue with this is that the knob to adjust the crossover point is smaller then a eraser yet goes from 20hz-5khz. Im using a test cd to try and get the same crossover for L/R but it is dam near impossible, since a slight touch and I just went 20-40hz. I am going to try using my ICBM temporarily to see where the crossover point works best. I think I am going to end up with a outboard crossover, since I also want to be able to crank up the bass a few notches for any bass anemic cds, or to just rock out.

Jared

Gaara

Its been a few weeks and I am still trying to get a sunfire. I have been having awful luck, for example I passed up a 5ch great condition Cinema Grand Signature on ebay for $1350 because I got greedy. The seller listed it as a regular Cinema (sells for much less) and didn't realize. I was the only one bidding on it until 2/3 days before it ended someone notified him and he posted that it was a signature. Within 24hours the price shot up to $1250, ended at over $1600.

A few popped up on Agon one which was a 19in version on 9/10 condition and the guy had great feedback (50+). Offered it for $950 shipped but I turned it down as there was another for $1050 that was a 17in version which is what I really wanted. It was listed as 7/10 with a few minor scratches, I asked for a pic and was given a blurry one which looks like 2 large scratches on the front. Its hard to tell from the pics but one looks like it is 2in long and the other about 2-4in long. Definitely not 7/10, closer to 5/10...and I am worried that he has good feedback but not great.

So I was getting worried and went back to see if the other one is still available for $950 shipped, nope sale pending.

Oh well, at least I got my FLAC finally going.

Jared

ben62670

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130095780568&sspagename=ADME:B:AAQ:US:1

Does this link work?

Gaara

I see it, a little to much for me though. If I am going to get a 19in its gotta be below $1000 shipped, id be willing to pay more for the 17in. Thats why this other one being all scratched up kills me, its right what I want to spend...but...not something to be proud off.

Jared