ACLU at it again...

polksda

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/4614375.html

Graduation at N.J. church sparks lawsuit

March 8, 2007.

TRENTON, N.J. — The state American Civil Liberties Union chapter is suing the Newark public school district on behalf of a Muslim teen over a school's decision to hold its graduation ceremonies in a Baptist church.

The New Jersey ACLU said Wednesday it was suing the district because its decision to hold graduation in the church prevented West Side High School senior Bilal Shareef from attending. Shareef's religious beliefs forbid him from entering a building with religious images, the civil liberties group said.

The ceremony violated several provisions in the state constitution prohibiting public institutions from showing a religious preference, the ACLU asserts.

The plaintiffs seek unspecified damages and a ban on further public school ceremonies in places of worship.

District lawyer Perry Lattiboudere said Thursday that the district believes state law allows the use of religious facilities out of necessity. He added that the district makes efforts to cover up religious symbols in churches when it uses them for graduations.

The lawsuit in state Superior Court joins a long line of legal cases in the U.S. in recent decades that challenged practices in which public schools have become intertwined with religion.

The ACLU said the district promised after the 2005 ceremony to avoid holding a graduation at a religious location again.

But in 2006, graduation was again held at New Hope. And the principal at the time told seniors they would get two additional graduation tickets for family and friends if they attended a separate Roman Catholic baccalaureate Mass, according to the ACLU.

Lattiboudere said there were no secular spaces available to handle the school's roughly 250 graduating seniors and guests.

"There was clearly a need to use the facility in '05 and 2006. And we've made an effort to use nonreligious facilities," Lattiboudere said.

With about 43,000 students, the urban district is the state's largest. It's also among 31 districts in the state's neediest areas that get special financial aid.

I cannot count the number of elementary, high school, and Jr. college graduations in this area that are held in churches, simply because many of the schools don't have decent facilities to hold a graduation ceremony.

"Guess we'd better hold graduation down at the local VFW so little Achmed won't get offended... no wait, the flags will offend pacifists... Ahh, screw it, we'll just hold it at the bar next door."

It's only a matter of time until Commencement and Graduation ceremonies are banned outright because there is a benediction at some point in the ceremony.

I find it ludicrous that the entire process needs to be changed to accommodate 1 out of 250 graduates. I'm willing to bet that if you inquired hard enough of all the graduates that you would not be able to find ANY venue that didn't offend/alienate at least 1 person in the group. Where does it end?

So let's sue a likely already strapped school system to feed the pockets of the ACLU lawyers... *spit*

ben62670

Kinda like the woman who wouldn't take off her vail for her drivers license. Do they believe that they won't get 70 virgins if they go in a church? In this country we have freedom of religion. If he doesn't want to pray or something then don't. It's a free country that was based on Christianity. If churches offend you stay where their are no churches just FN mosques!

I'm not Paul Harvey... Good Day!

bobman1235

The problem is no one ever fights BACK against these things. The majority needs to say "listen, we feel bad that this one person is offended, but we're not going there for worship, we're going there out of necessity. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION, get over it." End of story. But we've all turned into submissive wusses and will not stand up for ourselves out of fear of being labelled a bigot or insensitive. All of the insanity could easily stop if people just stopped letting the ACLU bulldoze wherever they feel like it. The people have the power if they choose to use it.

ohskigod

there needs to be a large, well funded organization, that will fight on a legal front for things that are based in common sence. Which means this organization will be put against the ACLU many times.

wonder if an organization exists ands we just dont know about it.

ohskigod

Being from NJ, I read that story well. I hate the ACLU with a passion, but the flip side to this is, the school had the graduation at the same church last year, the ACLU pitched its usual fit, but held off on legal action since the school said they would not do it again. well....they did. While I do not agree with the ACLU and there stance, the school did kind of ask for it. at least do it in another venue, piss off another person, and placate the ACLU again if need be to avoid the lawsuit.


Its funny though, Muslims are probably the least tolereant religion, but if we dont tolerate there beliefs, they sue with the ACLU all the time. The ACLU and a majority of the Muslim faith are like schoolyard bullies to an extent. I can walk into a mosque all day and not be offended in any way, apparently Muslims cant. Seems like a weakness to me, call me kooky

steveinaz

More of the "PUSSIFICATION" of America. Everyday, a little more of our culture evaporates into the air....

F1nut

Shareef's religious beliefs forbid him from entering a building with religious images, the civil liberties group said.

Sounds like Shareef has a personal problem that he has no business bothering anyone else with. Screw him, Islam and the ACLU.

tonyb

steveinaz wrote:

More of the "PUSSIFICATION" of America. Everyday, a little more of our culture evaporates into the air....

AHMEN TO THAT BRO!!!!

madmax

I have to wonder if a church is such a good place to hold a graduation. Not that I agree with any of this but it makes sense not to bring people with known contempt of the religion into the church.
madmax

read-alot

The last time I weighed in on this our friend Andy tried to kick me out of "his"
home state but I will say that if the silent majority doesn't step up and put a stop to this foolishness it will continue to gain steam and get worse before it gets better. The courts do not obide by common sense anymore.

bobman1235

madmax wrote:

I have to wonder if a church is such a good place to hold a graduation. Not that I agree with any of this but it makes sense not to bring people with known contempt of the religion into the church.
madmax

It's probably not the best place, but depending on what type of town it is, it may be the only place. In some small town in the Bible belt, how many large publicly available buildings are there going to be where a ceremony like a graduation can be held? Obviously the school's auditorium isn't big enough... what's left? I doubt the town likes having lawsuits thrown at them.

dragon1952

madmax wrote:

I have to wonder if a church is such a good place to hold a graduation. Not that I agree with any of this but it makes sense not to bring people with known contempt of the religion into the church.
madmax

The way a lot of people feel about religion, I tend to agree. ****, many people don't want their kids saying the Pledge of Allegiance because of the 'G' word. Many businesses can't use the term 'Christmas' anymore, using 'Holiday' instead. No prayers in school for sure. It seems to me they're just asking for it from a lot of people, not just the aforementioned misguided individual.:rolleyes:

bobman1235 wrote:

In some small town in the Bible belt, how many large publicly available buildings are there going to be where a ceremony like a graduation can be held? Obviously the school's auditorium isn't big enough... what's left? I doubt the town likes having lawsuits thrown at them.

Yeah, if they just need a place big enough with a roof on it what are you gonna do? They could just mail out the diplomas I guess:D

cfrizz

Seems like even after having a year to plan & find another location, they were somehow unsucessful.

A public school graduation really shouldn't be held in a church. An Athiest could just as easily be bringing the lawsuit against them.

A "large, well funded organization/s" could also volunteer to foot the bill to rent a hall or something to hold the graduation, even if they have to go outside of Trenton to do it.

There was plenty of time & notification to make other arrangements, but it looks like they just couldn't be bothered putting in the effort.

read-alot

cfrizz wrote:

Seems like even after having a year to plan & find another location, they were somehow unsucessful.

A public school graduation really shouldn't be held in a church. An Athiest could just as easily be bringing the lawsuit against them.

A "large, well funded organization/s" could also volunteer to foot the bill to rent a hall or something to hold the graduation, even if they have to go outside of Trenton to do it.

There was plenty of time & notification to make other arrangements, but it looks like they just couldn't be bothered putting in the effort.

Great idea Cathy, lets get the ACLU to build a building so this one kid won't be offended.

ohskigod

I know Trenton, its a rough city. there is a possibility of a lack of options. If the Church is a large hall used to hold a graduation, then so be it. usually, the church will have a large gathering area seperate from the actual main Chapel, I assume this is the case here. It might very well be just a lack of options, so should everyone not have a graduation?

it just seems like such a stupid reason to screw up so many kids lives. not to mention ripping funds from what I KNOW to be a severly cash strapped school system!!!


If my kid was in a school and used a mosque because it was large enough to do the job, I wouldnt care. Thats because I'm not a weak minded sheep, and neither will my Child be. My sensitivities dont get effected because I gaze upon a different religious symbol. I believe what I believe, it matters not the room I am in nor the company I keep. I think it is rediculous the stupid things that offend people

bobman1235

While we're on the topic, ohskigod, can you change your screen name? The word "God" offends me.

shack

What a sad commentary that we are even having this discussion. I guess our church should quit letting the local high school use our parking lot for students to park during school hours, football games etc...(free of course...we are next door to each other). We certainly wouldn't want the shadow of our steeple with a cross on it falling across a student who would be offended.

Maybe God will stop blessing America and we won't have to worry about stupid stuff like this.

petrym

http://usawakeup.org/
Edit: This starts out with a nuclear threat, but goes on to the ultimate goal of Islamo-fascism.

Demiurge

What the Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo?

cfrizz

LOL There is an idea!:D I didn't say I agreed with the ACLU, but you know that there will always be a few crackpots out there that pull stuff like this!

Next time it probably WILL be an athiest that will get their knickers in a knot over it!:rolleyes: :eek:

read-alot wrote:

Great idea Cathy, lets get the ACLU to build a building so this one kid won't be offended.

ohskigod

petrym wrote:

http://usawakeup.org/
Edit: This starts out with a nuclear threat, but goes on to the ultimate goal of Islamo-fascism.

yep, sounds about right, dont know whats so hard to understand. Islam, its out way, or were cutting your f*$kin head off!!!!...LOL

MrNightly

petrym wrote:

http://usawakeup.org/
Edit: This starts out with a nuclear threat, but goes on to the ultimate goal of Islamo-fascism.

Interesting...

He also wants $39.99 for his book. A little high priced for my taste... Although I believe there is a lot of truth in what that site is saying...

MacLeod

F the aclu. The most dangerous anti-American organization in the world. They pose a greater long term threat to this country than muslim terrorists. The mayor of a Pennsylvania town is trying to pass a law that would crack down hard on employers hiring illegal aliens and land lords renting to illegal aliens. Give ya 3 guesses who is suing the town.

I have and never will understand why anything Christian is offensive especially if youre an aethiest. If I dont believe in God, then why would a church offend me??? Its just a building. If I were a devout Christian, I wouldnt be offended to hold a service in a mosque. Hell Ive been to a wedding held in a Catholic church. Didnt bother me in the least.

Come to think of it, the word "offend" offends me. I swear if I hear one more person whining and crying about being offended, Im gonna puke.

hearingimpared

bobman1235 wrote:

The problem is no one ever fights BACK against these things. The majority needs to say "listen, we feel bad that this one person is offended, but we're not going there for worship, we're going there out of necessity. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION, get over it." End of story. But we've all turned into submissive wusses and will not stand up for ourselves out of fear of being labelled a bigot or insensitive. All of the insanity could easily stop if people just stopped letting the ACLU bulldoze wherever they feel like it. The people have the power if they choose to use it.

I'm not afraid to speak up about this kind of rot. . . and I always get called a bigot or elitist or some other politically correct pussyfied nonsense.

hearingimpared

ohskigod wrote:

Being from NJ, I read that story well. I hate the ACLU with a passion, but the flip side to this is, the school had the graduation at the same church last year, the ACLU pitched its usual fit, but held off on legal action since the school said they would not do it again. well....they did. While I do not agree with the ACLU and there stance, the school did kind of ask for it. at least do it in another venue, piss off another person, and placate the ACLU again if need be to avoid the lawsuit.


Its funny though, Muslims are probably the least tolereant religion, but if we dont tolerate there beliefs, they sue with the ACLU all the time. The ACLU and a majority of the Muslim faith are like schoolyard bullies to an extent. I can walk into a mosque all day and not be offended in any way, apparently Muslims cant. Seems like a weakness to me, call me kooky

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I thought Baptist churchs had no "idols."

hearingimpared

petrym wrote:

http://usawakeup.org/
Edit: This starts out with a nuclear threat, but goes on to the ultimate goal of Islamo-fascism.

I'm surprised you are not getting jumped for spreading Conservative, Elitist, Bigotry!!!

ohskigod

no idols, but there are crosses and stuff, to the muslim eye, I guess that counts as offensive

hearingimpared

ohskigod wrote:

no idols, but there are crosses and stuff, to the muslim eye, I guess that counts as offensive

Not being Muslim is what counts as offensive . . . period.

shack

ohskigod wrote:

While I do not agree with the ACLU and there stance, the school did kind of ask for it. at least do it in another venue, piss off another person, and placate the ACLU again if need be to avoid the lawsuit.

Well there you go...instead of doing what is right, practical, preferred by the majority....let's do whatever is necessary to keep from getting sued. :rolleyes:

That is what the ACLU wants you know. Social re-engineering through intimidation.

hearingimpared

How did it come to the majority just keeping silent on all this kind of rot? I mean it is so obvious how skewed this whole issue is that it is frightening that it could go any further than some judge telling the ACLU to take a hike. I mean I could see a judge making a decision against a majority of say KKK members in a community because they want to keep segragation going. . .no problem there, but when a whole community has to change or is held hostage because of one persons religious intolerance of what the norm of that community is. . . it just boggles my mind.

mrbigbluelight

HearingImpaired wrote:

The ACLU said the district promised after the 2005 ceremony to avoid holding a graduation at a religious location again.

But in 2006, graduation was again held at New Hope. And the principal at the time told seniors they would get two additional graduation tickets for family and friends if they attended a separate Roman Catholic baccalaureate Mass, according to the ACLU.

Lattiboudere said there were no secular spaces available to handle the school's roughly 250 graduating seniors and guests.

"There was clearly a need to use the facility in '05 and 2006. And we've made an effort to use nonreligious facilities," Lattiboudere said.

And therein lies the problem.

NOT with the ACLU.
NOT with West Side High School senior Bilal Shareef.

No. The problem lies, rather, with school administrators. Both local and state. For underfunding schools.

HearingImpaired wrote:

District lawyer Perry Lattiboudere said Thursday that the district believes state law allows the use of religious facilities out of necessity.

And with incompetent lawyers. If that is an accurate quote, than state law(s) absolutely allow the use of religious facilities out of necessity.
There is absolutely no need for "we believe". It is a given.

But if that is an accurate quote, than District lawyer Perry Lattiboudere has revealed that he knows the district has not made a 'good faith' effort in attempting to secure other graduation facilities.

Instead, the school administration has limped along, hoping the status quo would continue to hold as it has since the problem was originally brought to their attention in 2005.
But it didn't, thanks to West Side High School senior Bilal Shareef and the ACLU.

And the school administration, not unlike a good magician, attempts to "misdirect" away from the real problem of underfunded facilities (because THEY are responsible for that) to an area that they can't be held accountable for: one of "those" people, senior Bilal Shareef, and the ever-popular straw dog, the ACLU, are "acting up", and causing "us" problems.

The school administration would have you accept that we COULD follow the Constitution, but it is much easier, quicker, and cheaper to do it "our" way, even if it violates the Constitution.

So, I say ..... once again, nice job, ACLU.