How many of you are using equalizers on your 2 channel rigs?

Mother Mooch
Mother Mooch Posts: 129
edited March 2007 in 2 Channel Audio
Just wondering if the old saying "**** in = **** out" pertains to an Eq?

I have updated my amp (Pioneer 150wpc) from my Yamaha 80 wpc rig playing through my monitor 12's and have notice a difference in sound quality and volume BUT still have issues with muddy mid bass and harsh high end...
Mind you, I am single supporting to households and really can't upgrade to a bigger amp yet and was really wondering if i can adjust my sound with an Eq?

So i guess my second question is... where can i get a decent Eq at rock bottom prices?

Advice for a poor divorced music lover... :)


Mother...

PS: or should i just quit drinking so much... lol...
Post edited by Mother Mooch on
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Comments

  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,962
    edited March 2007
    Muddy bass and harsh highs can be caused by a ton of different things.
    What equipment do you have ? Size of room ? Some here use EQ's and like them so maybe they will chime in.Check out BBE. But personally,I think the money would be better spent on upgradeing.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

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  • Mother Mooch
    Mother Mooch Posts: 129
    edited March 2007
    Hello Tony

    Older JVC 5 disc Cd player, Pioneer 150wpc AVR, Monitor 12's and the room size is 16 wide by 18 deep... Now i know the best bet is to upgrade to a MUCH better amp, but right now money is really tight and don't even now if i can buy a Eq (unless it's dirt cheap) So i am really looking for advice on the Eq... Will it rob me of power and just degrade the signal more?

    Thanks
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,962
    edited March 2007
    EQ's won't rob any power.I think in your case,it may make a difference.Your old JVC is most likely the culprit and you should look into a replacement.Have you tried moveing your speaks around? What settings are they at in the AVR?
    If an EQ is really your hearts content,others will have to chime in,I do know a BBE sonic maximizer can be had for like 80 bucks used.Good luck.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • Mother Mooch
    Mother Mooch Posts: 129
    edited March 2007
    Tony

    I think i have made love to these speakers more than my Ex by moving them around... lol... I have them about 2 from the outside walls and a foot and a half from the back wall (this is the best i have found so far in my room) My AVR, I have it set at just regular (no effects) And the Cd player is a weak point, But can i get i get a decent one for around 150.00?

    I'm not sure if i am set on an Eq or not, just thought it might be the cheapest way of leveling things out?

    Thanks
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,962
    edited March 2007
    Most AVR's have some sort of EQ built in,wich is why I question your need for it.An outboard DAC may be up your alley but the cdp is the weak link.People here praise the oppo for DVD/CD and is in your ballpark.Keep an eye out on your local craigslist too for another cdp.Old school EQ's show up dirt cheap,but as I said before,the cdp is the weak link friend.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • Mother Mooch
    Mother Mooch Posts: 129
    edited March 2007
    Thanks Tony...
    I'll keep my eye out for both for (the cheaper route for now) and see what i can come up with... Any suggestions on brand and model of CDP?

    Thanks
    Steve
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited March 2007
    equalizers are EVIL, rarely used/calibrated properly, tweeter-eating bastads.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited March 2007
    I dont even have a tone control in my 2 channel rig....much less an equalizer.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • Mother Mooch
    Mother Mooch Posts: 129
    edited March 2007
    steveinaz wrote:
    equalizers are EVIL, rarely used/calibrated properly, tweeter-eating bastads.


    LOL... i'll take this as a no, no then?
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  • Mother Mooch
    Mother Mooch Posts: 129
    edited March 2007
    shack wrote:
    I dont even have a tone control in my 2 channel rig....much less an equalizer.


    NO tone control? Man, I am WAY behind on this high end stuff! I bought these Monitor 12's and now can't find a dirt cheap amp to drive them... lol... Maybe i'll give up...
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  • ohskigod
    ohskigod Posts: 6,502
    edited March 2007
    shack wrote:
    I dont even have a tone control in my 2 channel rig....much less an equalizer.


    same here :D
    Living Room 2 Channel -
    Schiit SYS Passive Pre. Jolida CD player. Songbird streamer. California Audio Labs Sigma II DAC, DIY 300as1/a1 Ice modules Class D amp. LSi15 with MM842 woofer upgrade, Nordost Blue Heaven and Unity interconnects.

    Upstairs 2 Channel Rig -
    Prometheus Ref. TVC passive pre, SAE A-205 Amp, Wiim pro streamer and Topping E50 DAC, California Audio Labs DX1 CD player, Von Schweikert VR3.5 speakers.

    Studio Rig - Scarlett 18i20(Gen3) DAW, Mac Mini, Aiyma A07 Max (BridgedX2), Totem Mites
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  • Mother Mooch
    Mother Mooch Posts: 129
    edited March 2007
    ohskigod wrote:
    same here :D


    Pure clean sound coming from the CDP through the amp to the speakers? No bass control? MAN i have a lot to learn!

    Guess i need to find somebody close to me so i can "listen" to a real system!
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited March 2007
    Old school monitor 12's with 4 mids, 1 tweet, and one woofer?
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • Mother Mooch
    Mother Mooch Posts: 129
    edited March 2007
    ben62670 wrote:
    Old school monitor 12's with 4 mids, 1 tweet, and one woofer?

    They say series 2 on the back, but yes... they are fantastic speakers! One passive, four mids and one peerless...
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  • SLOCOOKN
    SLOCOOKN Posts: 704
    edited March 2007
    Dibs if you ever want to sell the monitor 12's...:) I could use them for surrounds!
    :eek: From the bottom it looks like a steep incline, From the top another down hill slope of mine.:mad: But I know the equilibrium's there!:cool: .."Faith No More" :D
    Sony cx985v (for now)
    BBE 482i
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    Adcom GFA 555 mk 2
    AudioQuest Crystal 2 spk wire
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    Belkin pf60
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    AudioQuestType 4
    VMPS Original Tall Boy (Mega Woofers soon)
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited March 2007
    you may want to replace the tweeters.. that will help tame the brightness.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited March 2007
    shack wrote:
    I dont even have a tone control in my 2 channel rig....much less an equalizer.

    +1. You just have to get to the point where your source components are all you need. EQ's rarely give you anywhere enough control over the frequency (very broad not to mention the extreme boost in output) to make any positive difference, same goes for tone controls, etc. If it works for you at this point in your audio journey, fine, but there is nirvana out there sans tone controls. :)
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • read-alot
    read-alot Posts: 812
    edited March 2007
    Tone Control
    polkaudio SRS (rdo194 x 8)
    Dodd ELP (separate power supply)
    JC 1 blocks ( strapped )
    Rega Apollo
    MIT (speaker cables) Outlaw (ICs)

    polkaudio SDA2(rdo194x4) (front) polkaudio CRS (rdo194x4)(rear) polkaudio 400i (center)
    B&K 505
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    VIP 622
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  • bikezappa
    bikezappa Posts: 2,463
    edited March 2007
    Mother Mooch

    Have you tried the speakers in a different room? Smaller room?

    Is there muddyness at low volume? Does it cjange with volume?

    Go to a good HiFi store and sit and listen to your favorite CD and compare the sound there to your home set up.

    I don't think an EQ will help but I could be wrong.
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited March 2007
    EQ's are pretty much for mixers these days, but if you have a system that is lacking someway it might provide a bandaid. Not something I have used in a very long long time.

    RT1
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  • PolknPepsi
    PolknPepsi Posts: 781
    edited March 2007
    My stereo receiver has an equalizer (tone controls..bass & treble) and they must be used or the sound is terrible, "closed in and all muddy". Some day I would like to try as suggested above....a tube preamp to help things out a bit.

    www.zzsounds.com or www.musiciansfriend.com may have something.

    Good Luck.....
    Denon #2900, Denon stereo receiver, Conrad Johnson Sonographe 120 amp, Blue Jeans cables, and Klipsch RF-7's
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited March 2007
    nada,,,I just roll tubes,, and drop tubes,,and buy more tubes ;)
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • dudeinaroom
    dudeinaroom Posts: 3,609
    edited March 2007
    tone controls?:confused: I forgot how to use them 5 years ago.
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  • MillerLiteScott
    MillerLiteScott Posts: 2,561
    edited March 2007
    I don't even have a pre-amp. CD Player>IC's>Tubes>speaker wire>Speakers.

    It is what it is.
    I like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D
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  • Mix-no-mo
    Mix-no-mo Posts: 7
    edited March 2007
    An EQ is a bandaid that you don't need/want in a proper reference system. I am a pro sound engineer, and wouldn't think of doing a gig with out a good 31band EQ, but there is no way I would ever have one in my home.

    Bottom line is that, the more boxes you run your signal through, the more distortion you will accumulate.
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited March 2007
    read-alot wrote:
    Tone Control
    :D:D:D
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    edited March 2007
    An EQ will boost or cut the muddiness, but not make that frequency cleaner.

    BTW, an EQ can eat up power to the point of clipping the amp if enough boost is dialed in on the lower ranges. It is basically a segmented volume control.

    Again, I have no tone controls in my rig aside from rolling different tubes in the preamp.
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited March 2007
    Using Parametric EQ on a subwoofer is OK to help lessen the effects of room modes but otherwise EQ should be avoided.
    The best way to tweak your system is to experiment with speaker placement and by improving the acoustics with some wall panels and bass traps.
    The acoustic characteristics of the room are a HUGE factor in determining the quality of sound you will achieve.
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited March 2007
    shack wrote:
    I dont even have a tone control in my 2 channel rig....much less an equalizer.

    Me neither. . . attenuator (volume control) and balance control that which I never touch.
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  • schwarcw
    schwarcw Posts: 7,335
    edited March 2007
    Mix-no-mo wrote:
    I am a pro sound engineer, and wouldn't think of doing a gig with out a good 31band EQ,

    Exactly! If you folks think that you are getting "true" music as the muscians recorded it, think again. Your SACDs and 200 grams vinyl 1/2 speed masters have been tweaked by God knows how many little EQ adjustments and ProTools plug ins along the way by the sound engineers, during the mixdown and by record company producers. Do you trust all these guys to "manufacture" a sound that is satisfactory to you? Get real what you hear from the disk in your source has been polished by software on the mixing board. Is it "true", pure audio as the artist intended. The artist probably had little input on the final mix!!! PLEASE! Just a fancy EQ!!!

    A good EQ will go along way toward some of the work and money spend tube rolling. It's just another way of adding an EQ adjustment to your sound. Call it what you like, you are shaping the frequency traces with your tubes. If the sound is too harsh, tweak the HF dB levels. Hey I'm guilty of using the EQ once in a while! But at least I admit it and recognize the "tube rolling" and IC "magic" for what it is and does.
    Carl

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