A New and preferable A/B comparison test

bikezappa

Check out this automated method of comparing changes to you audio system.

http://libinst.com/Audio%20DiffMaker.htm.

Here are the basics.

Record the output of an audio component when playing music.

Change something in the system - cable or any audiophile tweak of any kind.

Next record the output again with the same music.

Then using "Audio DiffMaker" software align the two tracks to the same level and timing.

Subtract one from each other and listen to the difference.

No sound means the change made no difference.

dorokusai

That's a neat program. Didn't PolkThug do something similar when he was roasting cables???? Thuggy?

steveinaz

A quote from the maker:

"Tests can be inconclusive because of noise or difficult system or recording conditions. And because the final result (the "Difference" recording) will still be evaluated by ear, human judgment is still involved in determining whether the changes are significant, unfortunately leaving much room for disagreement."

Funny how it always comes back to subjective opinion. IOW, if it sounds different to you, then there's a difference.

PolkThug

dorokusai wrote:

That's a neat program. Didn't PolkThug do something similar when he was roasting cables???? Thuggy?

I did something kind of like that once upon a time. However, when I was really roasting cables and measuring the audio signal, speakers were not involved.

I was able to show a difference that an "audiophile contact enhancer paste" made (which wasn't a 'good' difference).

shack

steveinaz wrote:

Funny how it always comes back to subjective opinion. IOW, if it sounds different to you, then there's a difference.

That's too easy. You have to PROVE it sounds different to you. :rolleyes:

madmax

I just don't get this a/b stuff. So what if cable #3 sounds better with cd player #2 and amp #4. It will sound like **** with cd player #1 or amp #3.
madmax

bikezappa

I wasn't posting to bring up the old topic of does it or doesn't make a difference proof game. I thought this was an interesting methode of measuring the amount of difference things/components or tweaks can make.

For example, we could say I was playing the music loud and you could say you were playing your music louder. But we could use a sound level db meter to tell both of us exactly how loud the music was.

Who cares you ask? Well if I'm spending my money I'd like to know what things make a small difference and big difference or no difference.

Also the difference can be positive or negative to your ears.

cfrizz

But regardless of what the meter says, if it still sounds too loud to you, then it is too loud.

That's why in stuff of this nature you can't totally rely on specs, graphs, meters etc.

Because in the end, only your ears can decide & no one else can tell you that your ears are wrong, just because their ears are not able to hear the same thing.

Let us know what differences you came up with.:)

bikezappa wrote:

For example, we could say I was playing the music loud and you could say you were playing your music louder. But we could use a sound level db meter to tell both of us exactly how loud the music was.

madmax

bikezappa wrote:

For example, we could say I was playing the music loud and you could say you were playing your music louder. But we could use a sound level db meter to tell both of us exactly how loud the music was.

I get your point but the recorded signal would loose any difference you had to start with.

I actually have a great example here, so listen up.

Example: I've been recording LP's onto CDR's. So far maybe 65 to 70 of them. I started off using a low end (its all relative) phono preamp. The system sounded wonderful real time and when I played back the recordings they also sounded wonderful, although slightly different with a different set of quirks. Very close though. 30 or so records go through the process so I'm real familiar with all the sounds by this time. Well, the phono pre of my dreams comes along and I put it in line. Man, the difference is incredible! There is a reason some of this stuff is worth dreaming about. I continue the recording process and guess what, the recordings sound exactly the same as before. Why? Because the level of detail which made all the difference is beyond what I can record.

Given all this I would agree that blatent tonal differences could be heard but think when it comes to the character of the system all would be lost within the recording. Certainly any characteristics which cause the music to sound "emotional" or "quick" or any of the other sort of words used to describe most differences we hear would be lost.

Still interesting though.

madmax

bikezappa

madmax

Are you saying that during recording you are losing detail because of a low bit rate?

If so there must be a method of recording at a higher bit rate. You should be able to record and produce a CD from a CD that is identical, correct.

If the recording level loses much of the music details then this system sucks, but I understand that it has a very high bit rate. Please excuse me if my terminology sucks.

heiney9

bikezappa wrote:

madmax

Are you saying that during recording you are losing detail because of a low bit rate?

If so there must be a method of recording at a higher bit rate. You should be able to record and produce a CD from a CD that is identical, correct.

If the recording level loses much of the music details then this system sucks, but I understand that it has a very high bit rate. Please excuse me if my terminology sucks.

He's recording LP to CDR NOT CD to CD.

EDIT: Although I don't understand how you could be loosing quality. Must have something to do with the analog to digital conversion taking place inside the stand alone cd recorder. That must be the limitation. A better cd recorder might yield better results.

madmax

heiney9 wrote:

He's recording LP to CDR NOT CD to CD.

Its easy to replace "LP" with "CD" in your mind when you read stuff, I do it all the time.

madmax

steveinaz

bikezappa wrote:

I wasn't posting to bring up the old topic of does it or doesn't make a difference proof game. I thought this was an interesting methode of measuring the amount of difference things/components or tweaks can make.

For example, we could say I was playing the music loud and you could say you were playing your music louder. But we could use a sound level db meter to tell both of us exactly how loud the music was.

Who cares you ask? Well if I'm spending my money I'd like to know what things make a small difference and big difference or no difference.

Also the difference can be positive or negative to your ears.

Sorry for my derail, it is an interesting idea.