Cstpeter's Von Schweikert VR4jr system review
Joey_V
Posts: 8,552
Prologue:
This is a review of Chris' VR4jr based system. Now, many of you probably know that I've had this aversion for the VR4jr ever since I heard it at Decibel Audio shop back when I was auditioning speakers to purchase. There was just something grating about the sound, something artificial about the highs, something off about the entire sonic presentation.
However, 2 weeks ago, I went over to Chris' place to return the PS Audio Digital Link III that I borrowed from him for the week, and I proceeded to listen to his system at length for what seemed like 20 minutes, but actually ended up to be almost an hour and half!
General System Description:
Chris' system is simple and clean. The two speakers are spread about 8-9 feet apart and the sweet spot is about 9-10 feet away. The audio rack is off to the left of the left speaker, not in the center as how most audiophiles have it.... this positioning is probably a good thing as it gets out of the way of stage (both the reverb from the back wall and the visual cues of the stage). The room is rather large, with ceilings about 15 feet or more in height. Records and CDs flank the left wall while an open kitchen flanks the right of the listening area. The back wall is far removed from the couch, and is littered with decor both serving as an aesthetic statement and a diffusor.
System:
Von Schweikert VR4jr ($4000)
PS Audio GCC-250 Integrated Amplifier ($3500)
PS Audio UPC-200 (2)
PS Audio Digital Link III DAC ($1000)
Denon 2900
Pro-Ject Xpression TT
Graham Slee Amp 2
Audioquest Wiring/Interconnects
Music:
Shins
Norah Jones
Johnny Cash
Steely Dan
many more (I lost my notes)
The Session:
I sat down and prepared myself for what I thought was going to be a repeat performance of VR4jrs of yore. I was awaiting that shrill top end, that fake sweetness that is spread over most every syllable enounced by the vocalist, and the sonic imperfection that I had grown to loathe. I sat there as Chris put in the first of many CDs and LPs. I sat there in anticipation, and I hoped that I wouldn't say anything to hurt my friend's feelings. Before the track started though, we both came to the agreement that whatever sonic preference I had, it's not personal... and that my opinion should not matter to him.
The first notes came through.... I didnt flinch. I sat there and closed my eyes, surveyed the soundstage. Opened my eyes, checked to see where the speakers were, closed my eyes again and surveyed the soundstage again looking for hints of boxiness and overt incoherence in the reproduction. I sat there with eyes closed for a good minute, opened my eyes again and surveyed the system's positioning. Eyes open, chin straight, head in perfect alignment with the tweeter, I proceeded to scope out the sonic changes that would accompany my moving my torso further into the backrest of the couch. I relaxed and let the music envelope me. Closed my eyes and opened them, intermittently until the song ran it's course.
Chris asked, "So, what did you think?"
I replied, "Play something else."
And the next track played... and the next.... and the next.... and the next. Later came some LPs played on the TT, and similar tracks were A/B-ed with the CDP/DAC combo. Time passed as tunes played through and through. Brand new unopened CDs were freed from their cases and into the CDP transport it went, LPs were pulled from the stack, vacuumed, and ceremoniously placed under the cartridge. We conversed and talked about what we both heard.
"The singer was a bit to the right on that one, wouldn't you agree, Chris?"
Chris would sit down, "Yeah man... freaky."
The Sound:
Vocals
Clean, clear, articulate. Vocals had good weight and were of good density. They floated at a height just about what I would expect in a good hi-end reproduction, at about 5-6 feet in overall height. Good timbre and fantastic extension. The harmonics were held together and for once, didn't have that artificial characteristic that I heard in earlier audition of Von Schweikert speakers. There was a naturalness to the reproduction, this sense of ease that enveloped each word vocalized by the singer. There was a feeling of warmth when called upon, a feeling of urgency when the mood dictated, and a feeling of power and control when the singer took command of the performance. In other words, the vocals were pristine to the recording... something that actually took my breath away on more than one occassion during the session.
Instruments
Realistic in size and shape, rivaling those of the ML Summits. The fundamental frequencies seemed to be well blended with the harmonic frequencies, to create this illusion of a solid object from which the variable aspects of the intrument eminated from. Too many times, I've heard a discontinuity in an instrument's presentation, too many times I felt that at the higher registers of a piano's note, the instrument's overall shape was dissociated as is probably evidence from the lack of cohesive cooperation between tweeter/midrange/woofer.
Bass
Clean and clear, under great control. Although the midbass may not have been the quickest (Amatis hold this title in my opinion) that I've heard, nor was the overall deep bass the purest (there is still a perceivable blunting at the decay of a bass note, that is missing from the best sealed designs) that I've encountered, I felt that at the price range of the VR4jr, there was nothing left wanted, nothing left missing, and certainly nothing flawed in the reproduction of the infrasonics. I felt that the VR4jr extended well below what was expected of them, and with authority! I felt that these guys needed no subwoofer to woefully muddy the sound, as the VR4jr were completely adept at controlling the bass information all on their own! Impressive, to say the least.
Soundstage
I felt that the soundstage was as wide as it was deep. There were several occassions during which I felt the band played beyond the restrictions of the speakers. Numerous instances were a guitar positioned a foot outside the left speaker, or a piano extending from the middle of the two speakers and resonating two feet beyond the right positional limits of the right speaker. The stage, thanks to the ambience tweeter (a semi bipolar design implementation), was deep! The drums revealed itself several feet beyond the wall behind the speakers, while the singer usually stood at speaker plane. In addition, back up singers, when present, were easily localized to be a good distance behind the main, foreground vocalist... something I feel the Strata Minis cannot deliver to the same degree. That said, I will say that I noticed a clumping of vocalist directly at the speaker's front baffle, when the song panned extremely towards whichever speaker... a slightly disillusioning flaw that unfortunately plucked me, the listener, out of the fantasy and back into the reality that this event was indeed a reproduction done through speakers. Not to worry though, even the mighty Sonus Faber Cremona is not immune to this "wakeup call" so to speak.
Imaging/Focus:
There is something about a real, live voice singing in front of you for when you close your eyes, immediately you notice the grain-free presentation of a solid focused energy ball directed and projected to your very ears, a sensation that not even the best speakers can completely match! Yet, the system came freakishly close! There was a sense of holographic eerieness, this suggestive realism that is not so easily conveyed by lesser speakers that I have experienced. There's a definite difference between an uninvolving vocalist reproduced to just float in midair, versus the aural feeling you get when you have the pleasure of a world-class speaker present a singer's voice at a spot in space where it "projects" to you. This "projection" gives it what I feel is life, soul, and emotion. With this rather 3-dimensional focus of sound, warmth, sadness, and power is much easier conveyed! An attribute that I found lacking in even the best of the Polk LSi series.
Overall, the conclusion:
I felt that this session proved to me, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the VR4jr is truly a special speaker in their own right. It has qualities that I find essential to truly enjoying a song as a musical event, rather than as a crude reproduction of the real thing. There is much to be said when one is able to sit down and not have to try to unfold the mysteries of the song, to be able to sit down and just let the song unfold itself to you without as much as a strain on your part to bridge that gap between fantasy and reality... to have the system set the soundstage before your very eyes without you having to imagine and piece together the music in it's various components, is truly a testament to greatness of the VR4jr. My opinion of the VR4jr, in this session and with this particular amalgam of electronics, has done a complete 180.... and there is nothing more satisfying to the owner of the system that did what seemed, to me atleast, as the impossible.
Congrats on a fine system, Chris.
And that's the whole truth, homey.
This is a review of Chris' VR4jr based system. Now, many of you probably know that I've had this aversion for the VR4jr ever since I heard it at Decibel Audio shop back when I was auditioning speakers to purchase. There was just something grating about the sound, something artificial about the highs, something off about the entire sonic presentation.
However, 2 weeks ago, I went over to Chris' place to return the PS Audio Digital Link III that I borrowed from him for the week, and I proceeded to listen to his system at length for what seemed like 20 minutes, but actually ended up to be almost an hour and half!
General System Description:
Chris' system is simple and clean. The two speakers are spread about 8-9 feet apart and the sweet spot is about 9-10 feet away. The audio rack is off to the left of the left speaker, not in the center as how most audiophiles have it.... this positioning is probably a good thing as it gets out of the way of stage (both the reverb from the back wall and the visual cues of the stage). The room is rather large, with ceilings about 15 feet or more in height. Records and CDs flank the left wall while an open kitchen flanks the right of the listening area. The back wall is far removed from the couch, and is littered with decor both serving as an aesthetic statement and a diffusor.
System:
Von Schweikert VR4jr ($4000)
PS Audio GCC-250 Integrated Amplifier ($3500)
PS Audio UPC-200 (2)
PS Audio Digital Link III DAC ($1000)
Denon 2900
Pro-Ject Xpression TT
Graham Slee Amp 2
Audioquest Wiring/Interconnects
Music:
Shins
Norah Jones
Johnny Cash
Steely Dan
many more (I lost my notes)
The Session:
I sat down and prepared myself for what I thought was going to be a repeat performance of VR4jrs of yore. I was awaiting that shrill top end, that fake sweetness that is spread over most every syllable enounced by the vocalist, and the sonic imperfection that I had grown to loathe. I sat there as Chris put in the first of many CDs and LPs. I sat there in anticipation, and I hoped that I wouldn't say anything to hurt my friend's feelings. Before the track started though, we both came to the agreement that whatever sonic preference I had, it's not personal... and that my opinion should not matter to him.
The first notes came through.... I didnt flinch. I sat there and closed my eyes, surveyed the soundstage. Opened my eyes, checked to see where the speakers were, closed my eyes again and surveyed the soundstage again looking for hints of boxiness and overt incoherence in the reproduction. I sat there with eyes closed for a good minute, opened my eyes again and surveyed the system's positioning. Eyes open, chin straight, head in perfect alignment with the tweeter, I proceeded to scope out the sonic changes that would accompany my moving my torso further into the backrest of the couch. I relaxed and let the music envelope me. Closed my eyes and opened them, intermittently until the song ran it's course.
Chris asked, "So, what did you think?"
I replied, "Play something else."
And the next track played... and the next.... and the next.... and the next. Later came some LPs played on the TT, and similar tracks were A/B-ed with the CDP/DAC combo. Time passed as tunes played through and through. Brand new unopened CDs were freed from their cases and into the CDP transport it went, LPs were pulled from the stack, vacuumed, and ceremoniously placed under the cartridge. We conversed and talked about what we both heard.
"The singer was a bit to the right on that one, wouldn't you agree, Chris?"
Chris would sit down, "Yeah man... freaky."
The Sound:
Vocals
Clean, clear, articulate. Vocals had good weight and were of good density. They floated at a height just about what I would expect in a good hi-end reproduction, at about 5-6 feet in overall height. Good timbre and fantastic extension. The harmonics were held together and for once, didn't have that artificial characteristic that I heard in earlier audition of Von Schweikert speakers. There was a naturalness to the reproduction, this sense of ease that enveloped each word vocalized by the singer. There was a feeling of warmth when called upon, a feeling of urgency when the mood dictated, and a feeling of power and control when the singer took command of the performance. In other words, the vocals were pristine to the recording... something that actually took my breath away on more than one occassion during the session.
Instruments
Realistic in size and shape, rivaling those of the ML Summits. The fundamental frequencies seemed to be well blended with the harmonic frequencies, to create this illusion of a solid object from which the variable aspects of the intrument eminated from. Too many times, I've heard a discontinuity in an instrument's presentation, too many times I felt that at the higher registers of a piano's note, the instrument's overall shape was dissociated as is probably evidence from the lack of cohesive cooperation between tweeter/midrange/woofer.
Bass
Clean and clear, under great control. Although the midbass may not have been the quickest (Amatis hold this title in my opinion) that I've heard, nor was the overall deep bass the purest (there is still a perceivable blunting at the decay of a bass note, that is missing from the best sealed designs) that I've encountered, I felt that at the price range of the VR4jr, there was nothing left wanted, nothing left missing, and certainly nothing flawed in the reproduction of the infrasonics. I felt that the VR4jr extended well below what was expected of them, and with authority! I felt that these guys needed no subwoofer to woefully muddy the sound, as the VR4jr were completely adept at controlling the bass information all on their own! Impressive, to say the least.
Soundstage
I felt that the soundstage was as wide as it was deep. There were several occassions during which I felt the band played beyond the restrictions of the speakers. Numerous instances were a guitar positioned a foot outside the left speaker, or a piano extending from the middle of the two speakers and resonating two feet beyond the right positional limits of the right speaker. The stage, thanks to the ambience tweeter (a semi bipolar design implementation), was deep! The drums revealed itself several feet beyond the wall behind the speakers, while the singer usually stood at speaker plane. In addition, back up singers, when present, were easily localized to be a good distance behind the main, foreground vocalist... something I feel the Strata Minis cannot deliver to the same degree. That said, I will say that I noticed a clumping of vocalist directly at the speaker's front baffle, when the song panned extremely towards whichever speaker... a slightly disillusioning flaw that unfortunately plucked me, the listener, out of the fantasy and back into the reality that this event was indeed a reproduction done through speakers. Not to worry though, even the mighty Sonus Faber Cremona is not immune to this "wakeup call" so to speak.
Imaging/Focus:
There is something about a real, live voice singing in front of you for when you close your eyes, immediately you notice the grain-free presentation of a solid focused energy ball directed and projected to your very ears, a sensation that not even the best speakers can completely match! Yet, the system came freakishly close! There was a sense of holographic eerieness, this suggestive realism that is not so easily conveyed by lesser speakers that I have experienced. There's a definite difference between an uninvolving vocalist reproduced to just float in midair, versus the aural feeling you get when you have the pleasure of a world-class speaker present a singer's voice at a spot in space where it "projects" to you. This "projection" gives it what I feel is life, soul, and emotion. With this rather 3-dimensional focus of sound, warmth, sadness, and power is much easier conveyed! An attribute that I found lacking in even the best of the Polk LSi series.
Overall, the conclusion:
I felt that this session proved to me, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the VR4jr is truly a special speaker in their own right. It has qualities that I find essential to truly enjoying a song as a musical event, rather than as a crude reproduction of the real thing. There is much to be said when one is able to sit down and not have to try to unfold the mysteries of the song, to be able to sit down and just let the song unfold itself to you without as much as a strain on your part to bridge that gap between fantasy and reality... to have the system set the soundstage before your very eyes without you having to imagine and piece together the music in it's various components, is truly a testament to greatness of the VR4jr. My opinion of the VR4jr, in this session and with this particular amalgam of electronics, has done a complete 180.... and there is nothing more satisfying to the owner of the system that did what seemed, to me atleast, as the impossible.
Congrats on a fine system, Chris.
And that's the whole truth, homey.
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
Post edited by Joey_V on
Comments
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Great review but ixnay the prices eh?
-
Told you so.:pSharp Elite 70
Anthem D2V 3D
Parasound 5250
Parasound HCA 1000 A
Parasound HCA 1000
Oppo BDP 95
Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
Totem Mask Surrounds X4
Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
Sony PS3
Squeezebox Touch
Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door. -
It's not my system so I figured putting up prices for readers to see is ok as other members have pmed me to continue doing that. But, edited.Polk65 wrote:Great review but ixnay the prices eh?
Regardless, prices should not bother you as it is frequently posted during a review. It's a way for many to gauge at what price level is this gear at. It's not necessarily a measure of sound quality, but more a measure of how much you'd have to pay if you wanted the aforementioned gear. If others on this forum are able to post prices on how much they bought something or what to buy at what price, I really dont see the harm in posting prices on gear that's another Polkies.
Anyway, like I said, edited.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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Nothing wrong with posting prices.
Nice review; Von Schweikert makes awesome speakers; I heard these in Singapore powered by Plynius (they did not let me take pictures on this one). The set up was not finished yet, so no room treatments were in place. Nevertheless, one of the speakers that I would put in my list. My VR-1's have incredible detail and imaging. They go down to 40Hz easily. Of course they would benefit from some lower end help._________________________________________________
***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***
2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
SOPAThank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman -
Wow Joey, thanks for the review! You sure are skilled at conveying your aural impressions in words. Well done.
Anyway, I'm flattered that you devoted such time to write up your thoughts. Thanks buddy.Von Schweikert VR4-jr
Valve Audio Predator
Denon DVD-2900
PS Audio Digital Link III w/Cullen Level IV Mods
Pro-Ject Xpression w/Blue Point No. 2
Graham Slee Special Edition 2
PS Audio UPC-200 -
Can someone expand in another thread on the PS Audio Digital Link DAC? I have that one on my "very interested in" list!DKG999
HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED
Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC -
That's my next project.... mine is on its way to me as we speak.dkg999 wrote:Can someone expand in another thread on the PS Audio Digital Link DAC? I have that one on my "very interested in" list!
That and I am going to order 2 or 3 other well known DACs, like the Benchmark DAC-1, the Channel Islands VDA2, and perhaps the Lavry or Stello.
I'm going to start with a pure PS Audio DAC III review, then in a month or so, write a comparo.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Anytime, pal! It's the least I could do. Your system proved me wrong, it was definitely worth a write up!cstpeter wrote:Wow Joey, thanks for the review! You sure are skilled at conveying your aural impressions in words. Well done.
Anyway, I'm flattered that you devoted such time to write up your thoughts. Thanks buddy.
As you know, the PS Audio DAC III is coming... all thanks to you! So, I should be thanking you for elevating my system to another level... so.... THANKS, C!!
Joey
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
VR4jr...they will be mine, oh yes, they will be mine...Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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I just wanted to add this little minutia...
I have long talked about this idea of a typical "Von Schweikert sound" and Chris and I discussed this several times. The VS sound (for speakers VR4jr and below) is this unmistakable sweetness/artificialness in the top end that was overly presented in past demos of mine... the one thing I noticed the most in Chris' system is the decrease of this artificial embelishment, but I could still hear this characteristic from my demo at Chris' house. This time, however, the embelishment was less so a nuisance, but rather an acceptable characteristic of what I feel is the Von Schweikert (VR4jr and lower) house sound.
Chris and I discussed what might be different with the upper strata of Von Schweikert speakers VR4sr and above, since all use a different tweeter (non soft dome, all are variations of the ring radiator tweeter)... and we both kind of concluded, if not prematurely since none of us have had the pleasure of hearing them, that the one thing that might be different is this "embelishment". It would be very interesting to validate these raw opinions of ours and I'm looking forward to hearing the upper tier VS.
Alright, I'm done... back to work.
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Maybe you chose the wrong profession Joey,given your ability to
Transfer your thoughts into words...nice write up pal.:)HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
tonyb wrote:Maybe you chose the wrong profession Joey,given your ability to
Transfer your thoughts into words...nice write up pal.:)
Thanks, Tony!
I still gotta hear your Legacys.... in a few weeks, I'll be sure to hear it for real this time around.
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
It's always frustrating for me to read that someone has 'heard' the VR4 Jrs and walked away unimpressed. I am glad that you finally got to heard a nice pair broken in .Sharp Elite 70
Anthem D2V 3D
Parasound 5250
Parasound HCA 1000 A
Parasound HCA 1000
Oppo BDP 95
Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
Totem Mask Surrounds X4
Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
Sony PS3
Squeezebox Touch
Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door. -
Joey_V wrote:It's not my system so I figured putting up prices for readers to see is ok as other members have pmed me to continue doing that. But, edited.
Regardless, prices should not bother you as it is frequently posted during a review. It's a way for many to gauge at what price level is this gear at. It's not necessarily a measure of sound quality, but more a measure of how much you'd have to pay if you wanted the aforementioned gear. If others on this forum are able to post prices on how much they bought something or what to buy at what price, I really dont see the harm in posting prices on gear that's another Polkies.
Anyway, like I said, edited.
It seemed peculiar reading a review of another member's rig with itemized pricing. Since others have told you that it's fair play, please re-insert the prices and sorry for the derail. -
Cool. I put back the prices on the items that I thought were particularly impressive...Polk65 wrote:It seemed peculiar reading a review of another member's rig with itemized pricing. Since others have told you that it's fair play, please re-insert the prices and sorry for the derail.
Though I thought vinyl was the most impressive, I dont know how much his TT cost so I'll refrain from putting up a number.
Anyway, hope y'all enjoyed the review.
I'll work on my next one.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
