My system went from caterpillar to butterfly (Or: I've Obtained Audio Nirvana Too)

mulveling

Now eight months after bringing the Legacy Signature IIIs home, my 2ch rig has finally arrived - to the performance level they should have been at from the start, the level they were at in my friend's rig before he sold them to me. The last few days is what's sealed the deal:

* Saturday, I finally moved the damn 200lbs CRT tube TV out from between the speakers. It was great using the nice speaks for HT, but many people claim a big TV has no business in a serious 2ch rig, so it had to go to the bedroom. I moved my audio rack between the speaks - the rack is much much skinnier than the TV, so it doesn't negate the improvement. With the TV gone I moved the speakers in about a foot closer; before they were too far out to keep a safe distance from the CRT. These changes improved focus and made the soundstage siginificantly more cohesive from L to R. No more is there a localized blob of sound emitted from each box and a small center image.

* Today, I received a Parasound Halo A21 amp I nabbed off audiogon for $1090 shipped. DAMN!! This amp sounds as sweet as it looks. Microdynamics, macrodynamics, bass impact, low-level detail, tonality are all significantly improved. Powerful yet refined, smooth, and non-fatiguing. Vocals aren't "pushed out" like they were with other amps; they're "projected". This replaced a PS Audio HCA-2, which itself replaced a Sunfire Signature. I'll need another couple weeks to be sure, but this may be the biggest change I've yet heard from amplification. My amp progression has been: H/K AVR-225 -> Denon AVR-3805 -> Outlaw M200 -> PS Audio HCA-2 -> Sunfire Signature -> HCA-2 -> Halo A21

* Started using one of the best headphone amps ever made as a preamp - a Singlepower SDS, which I've had for 1.5 years now. I had been using a Sugden headmaster, which was way better than a PS Audio PCA-2. The SDS uses a trio of 6sn7 tubes; I'm using 2 Sylvania vt-231 and 1 Tung-Sol black glass round plate. Nice improvement over the Sugden. I've had a BAT VK-5i boxed up for a quite while (sold and waiting for pickup); I'm not going to test it in the system now for fear that if I like it I'll have to shell out $1700 for another one. It'll be hard to beat the SDS anyways.

Of course, the tweaks I've made the last two weeks have also helped:

* Speaker isolation - Started with Auralex Gramma plateforms, but got tired of their looks after a week. Now I used 1" thick granite slabs. I put the brass spikes back on the speaks and placed a little circular rubber pad between each spike and slab.

* Room treatments - I've been buying panels and traps from GIK acoustics. Very reasonable prices, great performace. So far placing the 2" panels at 1st reflection points (side and front walls) has made the biggest difference. I guess the bass trapping helps but won't make a really big difference until I get more room coverage. Right now for I've got a GIK tri-traps in each front/floor corner, 6 Auralex LENRDs along the front wall/floor joint, 1 LENRD in each front wall/ceiling corner, 2 4'x2' panels on front wall and 1 panel on each side wall. Also, pulling the speaks out 4' from the front wall helped bass a lot.

Through all of this, I've realized something:
Building a musical, resolving, and accurate full-range 2ch rig is HARD. Too damn hard. Room acoustics, speaker placement, equipment selection and gear synergy is hard to get all lined up, not to mention within any kind of mortal bugdet.

My full system is now:
Denon 3910 > HGA Silver Lace RCA > Singlepower SDS (w/ great NOS tubes) > Zu Pivot > Parasound Halo A21 > LAT SS-1000 MkII > Legacy Signature III

Now let's hope the bliss lasts at least a month

zombie boy 2000

Sweet! Sounds like you have one helluva set-up. Looks like a lot of Polkies are finally finding whatever it is they've been looking for... or at least an oasis in the middle of this god-forsaken desert. Let's hope it's not a mirage:D

madmax

mulveling wrote:

Through all of this, I've realized something:
Building a musical, resolving, and accurate full-range 2ch rig is HARD.

Now let's hope the bliss lasts at least a month

Hard Thats crazy talk!

After a few days a few annoying traits will probably become evident. Then a few will get on your nerves. Before you know it you will get to thinking how crappy it sounds. You will end up more unhappy than before.

Of course everyone around you will think you are nuts because it sounds so good...

madmax

reeltrouble1

You mean there is something after a sonic T-amp and Tosh 3960?????

Pics man???, I could use a fix.

Glad you are digging the sound, when you get that magic sound, all the hard work is worth it.......isn't it GRAND.

RT1

haimoc

I am glad that you went there.. to Nirvana .. with Early B... ... Kidding.
Anyway, room treatment makes much difference to audio quality. Congrats and enjoy..

Ricardo

Pictures

tonyb

Sometimes the most simple systems sound the best.Glad to see you are
finding out just what those speaks can do.Enjoy !

halo

Very :cool:

We need to see pics!!!

george daniel

Congratulations,, I know that you have been looking/tweaking for the right component/match. Can't wait to hear it this w/e

Early B.

Oh, y'all know I love this thread!!!

Congrats.

Roy Munson

Parasound Halo's are great amps, they are indeed smooth and not fatiguing at all. I purchased an A23 from a fellow Polkie [thanks Mark] and while I really like it I've been tempted to get a A21!

Rock on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

halo

Roy Munson wrote:

Parasound Halo's are great amps, they are indeed smooth and not fatiguing at all. I purchased an A23 from a fellow Polkie [thanks Mark] and while I really like it I've been tempted to get a A21!

Rock on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thats because you want (best Tim Allen impersonation) MORE POWER!!! Ugh, Ugh, Ugh.

Holydoc

I with the rest... where are the pics?

mulveling

Thanks guys!

Heh, well the pics sure aren't going to be taken by my broke-down digital camera. It's frustrating since I want to take pics so bad - it's nice to photo document major system changes, since it's the most potent reminder of your system's evolution. Plus I just really like how things look now and I want to show off It looks like a real serious 2ch rig, with the behemoth TV gone.

I've been seriously contemplating a Nikon D40 or a Canon Digital Rebel. Probably the Nikon, since I can borrow some of my boss's nice Nikon glass. Just gotta gather the courage to shell out the $$$ - I suppose I can sell the PS Audio now, so I might as well...Hmm, maybe I can get some pics by later this week...

Oh, also I guess I can't say I'm 100% done yet (there's always room for tweaks and incremental improvements ); I've been trying to put together a nice little starter vinyl rig: VPI HW-19, Rega RB300 arm, Dynavector P75 phono, and a Dynavector cart yet to be sourced (10x5 or 20XL). Three weeks later though, and the table *still* hasn't shipped. I'm crossing my fingers it'll eventually get here undamaged. I know, from past experience, vinyl can sound amazing on the Legacys.

mulveling

Well, I'm home for lunch and the system sounds just as exhilerating as yesterday, if not a tiny bit more so. Two days of nirvana in a row, I'd say this is a damn good start Only problem is I know I'll start to get curious about how the JC1's would fare in my room...no! I can't get a dedicated 20amp line, yeah that'll stop me

Heh, I love coming home for lunch break 'cause it's the only time on a weekday I can really crank it up to my preferred listening level...

Edit: Forgot to mention one more tweak I've been using - I draped a heavy mexican blanket over the listening couch, the intent is to damp any upper mid/high frequency reflections that might otherwise come off the leather near my head.

Ricardo

Hmmmmm...Mexican blanket...I've heard they take a while in breaking in. Try Hindu

george daniel

HTrookie wrote:

Hmmmmm...Mexican blanket...I've heard they take a while in breaking in. Try Hindu

Actually, it's the type of weave,,double stitched is preferable for two channel listening

haimoc

HTrookie wrote:

Hmmmmm...Mexican blanket...I've heard they take a while in breaking in. Try Hindu

Joey_V

mulveling wrote:

Well, I'm home for lunch and the system sounds just as exhilerating as yesterday, if not a tiny bit more so. Two days of nirvana in a row, I'd say this is a damn good start Only problem is I know I'll start to get curious about how the JC1's would fare in my room...no! I can't get a dedicated 20amp line, yeah that'll stop me

See... that's how it always starts.

Anyway, congrats on your nirvana... you have one enviable system.

Joey

PolknPepsi

That Parasound A-21 sounds like it is a fine amp to own....:cool:

Dean guitar pla

Congrats!

It's fun how systems evolve and they will always evolve. Enjoy it as much as you can before the next sonic evolution

Early B.

mulveling wrote:

Well, I'm home for lunch and the system sounds just as exhilerating as yesterday, if not a tiny bit more so

You know you're an audiophile when...

There was a time when men rushed home for lunch for a quickie, but listening to your system may be just as "exhilerating."

mulveling

Haha, very funny guys...
Girlfriend is 40 miles away at lunchtime so the audio rig is it

Ok, one of the acoustics experts from GIK just told me the blanket probably wouldn't do too much and if I wanted an improvement I could try a couple pillows instead. The blanket was really handmade (in Mexico) and looks pretty nice though, so I might leave it lying around....

Lucky me, I picked up a Nikon D40 tonight! I should definitely have pics up in a day or 2 at the latest. Unlucky me, now I've got to pay off the nice new $600 charge on my Visa. Grr, no matter how much I try to get out of the spending habit I just make up for it later

disneyjoe7

I like my 2 Halo A23 amps bridged for 400 watts I alway temped to get 2 A21 too bridge them for 800 watts. Sweet sounding amps and a big THANK YOU to Mark / Doro for turning me on to them.

mulveling

disneyjoe7 wrote:

I like my 2 Halo A23 amps bridged for 400 watts I alway temped to get 2 A21 too bridge them for 800 watts. Sweet sounding amps and a big THANK YOU to Mark / Doro for turning me on to them.

Yeah, thus far the Halos are by far the best I've heard with Legacy speaks. I guess those 6 10" woofers require something extra that the Halo provides. Pretty awesome value for $1100 used! I'm sure the A23 represents at least similar value, if not better. The higher end JC1s also did a hell of a job driving the very difficult Thiel CS7.2.

The JC1s are still just a bit too expensive and power hungry for my needs at this time. I guess I could do the 2 A21 thing, either bridged or biamp, but I wish there was something inbetween, like an A21se that would retail for say $3K-4K (and hence go for say $2K on agon) and use better parts and higher class A bias like the JC1. IIRC the first 20 watts of the JC1's are class A, compared to 8 watts in the A21.

I'm not even sure how much difference I might discern between the JC1 and A21, since I haven't compared them in the same system, but it's still fun to dream

mulveling

Here's a couple quick pics of the new dedicated 2ch rig:

tonyb

Very cool,love the stand to boot !!

Joey_V

mulveling wrote:

I'm not even sure how much difference I might discern between the JC1 and A21, since I haven't compared them in the same system, but it's still fun to dream

You could always lug it over to compare to Tom's JC1s.

Are those Lovan stands?

disneyjoe7

Nice setup

mulveling

Joey_V wrote:

You could always lug it over to compare to Tom's JC1s.

Are those Lovan stands?

That's an idea, but last I heard Tom was preparing to unload the JC1's in favor of some super duper Ayre amp. I can't afford them that soon. If I end up totally liking them much better then it'll totally ruin the whole Nirvana thing

Yep, they're Lovan Sovereign w/ dark rosewood shelves.

I've been baffled about why the Sunfire was such a poor match with the Legacys (IMO) - they seem to like lots of power after all, and the Sunfire pushes 1200 Watts /ch into 4 ohms. What the Halo does that the Sunfire doesn't is those first 8 class A watts. Also, the A21 damping factor is > 1100 - I don't know what the Sunfire's specs there were, but 1000 is pretty tough to beat. Or maybe it was something else entirely - system matching can be very unpredictable especially with the critical driver/amp pairing.

reeltrouble1

A perfect example of why watts specs dont mean much.

Looking good.

RT1